Why are some groups so inconsiderate to other road users?
Discussion
To start off I've been a cyclist since I was a kid (now 38). I also like cars and driving, and inparticular driving 'well' (ie safe fast progress with consideration to all other users).
So it REALLY bugs me when you get groups of cyclists like those we encountered on the road to Ivinghoe Beacon last sunday. A group of 10-15 road cyclists, riding in an extended 'peleton' of clumps of 3-4 cyclists, 2-3 a breast. So a VERY long group for cars to try and overtake in one go, but with gaps in between the clumps of cyclists not really big enough for a car to pull in to.
To make it worse one cyclist thought it a clever idea to re-overtake a car that had got pass his group and was then waiting in a (small) gap between clumps to get pass the others. He then wandered down the middle of the road in front of the car he had just re-overtaken.
Why behave like this? It just gives all cyclists a bad name as 'inconsiderate road hogs'.
We SHARE the roads with cars. We don't have any more right than them to it.
If you are cycling in a large group like this (which was an organised group not a 'flash mob') then either ride as one tight group, or ride as a number of 'clumps' with gaps in between for cars to pull in to. Not a long strong out gaggle over 200yds of road so my effectively being a moving road block!
So it REALLY bugs me when you get groups of cyclists like those we encountered on the road to Ivinghoe Beacon last sunday. A group of 10-15 road cyclists, riding in an extended 'peleton' of clumps of 3-4 cyclists, 2-3 a breast. So a VERY long group for cars to try and overtake in one go, but with gaps in between the clumps of cyclists not really big enough for a car to pull in to.
To make it worse one cyclist thought it a clever idea to re-overtake a car that had got pass his group and was then waiting in a (small) gap between clumps to get pass the others. He then wandered down the middle of the road in front of the car he had just re-overtaken.
Why behave like this? It just gives all cyclists a bad name as 'inconsiderate road hogs'.
We SHARE the roads with cars. We don't have any more right than them to it.
If you are cycling in a large group like this (which was an organised group not a 'flash mob') then either ride as one tight group, or ride as a number of 'clumps' with gaps in between for cars to pull in to. Not a long strong out gaggle over 200yds of road so my effectively being a moving road block!
oyster said:
Lawbags said:
It annoys the hell out of me too.
I'm a cyclist (mainly off road) and always ensure that cars can pass...even pulling over if need be.
If you were in your car and a faster car came up behind you on a country lane, would you pull over to let them pass?I'm a cyclist (mainly off road) and always ensure that cars can pass...even pulling over if need be.
A car, will, 9/10 be doing the speed limit or slightly above (shsshhh) so the car behind should have no need to go an faster anyway.
A cyclist, even in a 30mph limit, will very rarely be doing that speed, especially for any length of time, so it's just courteous (IMO) to let them past at the earliest opportunity, also saves them getting impatient and doing something daft endangering themselves and the cyclist.
I've commuted for 15+ years a lot of times with the wife. If it's safe to ride two abreast I would, but i'd move pretty sharpish to avoid holding cars up. I don't see why Road Cyclists shouldn't do the same.
That said, I was behind a group for 2+ miles the other day in my car, and they were cruising along that particular stretch of road at about 25mph (30 limit) and I was happy to sit behind them anyway.
oyster said:
If you were in your car and a faster car came up behind you on a country lane, would you pull over to let them pass?
Maybe not pull over, but I would make their life easier to get pass (hung the left side of the road, briefly blip left indicators when I can see safe to overtake so they know I'm keeping left). I wouldn't deliberatly drive as close to the middle of the road as possible to try and block them overtaking that is for sure!Though it it was a single track road (like many in northern scotland) I WOULD pull over after passing no more than 2 passing places to let them past.
oyster said:
If you were in your car and a faster car came up behind you on a country lane, would you pull over to let them pass?
Yes. Not every journey but if I'm out for a 'Sunday drive' with my wife I'll quite happily let the car behind past if its clearly much quicker, I appreciate it bring done for me when I'm driving not so slowly.
TheFungle said:
oyster said:
If you were in your car and a faster car came up behind you on a country lane, would you pull over to let them pass?
Yes. Not every journey but if I'm out for a 'Sunday drive' with my wife I'll quite happily let the car behind past if its clearly much quicker, I appreciate it bring done for me when I'm driving not so slowly.
In a car I would endeavour to make their life a little easier if poss. On a bike I will get myself as left as physically possible, slow down and let the driver know I know they are there and ready for them to pass with a wave (if it is safe to do so).
What suprises me is the sheer time some people take to get the f*ck back in their lane after passing sometimes!
c7xlg said:
Maybe not pull over, but I would make their life easier to get pass (hung the left side of the road, briefly blip left indicators when I can see safe to overtake so they know I'm keeping left). I wouldn't deliberatly drive as close to the middle of the road as possible to try and block them overtaking that is for sure!
Though it it was a single track road (like many in northern scotland) I WOULD pull over after passing no more than 2 passing places to let them past.
The middle of the road chestnut again, the reason cyclist ride out from the curb is that if teh dThough it it was a single track road (like many in northern scotland) I WOULD pull over after passing no more than 2 passing places to let them past.
head in the large metal box behind them trys to squeeze them or there is something in the gutter or at the side of the road they have space to move around and avoid the danger ride 6 inches from the curb and all the space you will have is the 6 inches to your left the width of half your handle bar and what ever space the passing driver gives your handle bar.Why are people inconsiderate on the roads? Frustration, belligerence, ignorance, over-crowded roads. Pick any.
I reckon its the over-crowding that brings these things to a head though. Too many people all wanting to use the same space at the same time is bound to result in conflict. Some people will handle that well, some will ignore it and some will handle it badly.
I reckon its the over-crowding that brings these things to a head though. Too many people all wanting to use the same space at the same time is bound to result in conflict. Some people will handle that well, some will ignore it and some will handle it badly.
Engineer1 said:
The middle of the road chestnut again, the reason cyclist ride out from the curb is that if teh dhead in the large metal box behind them trys to squeeze them or there is something in the gutter or at the side of the road they have space to move around and avoid the danger ride 6 inches from the curb and all the space you will have is the 6 inches to your left the width of half your handle bar and what ever space the passing driver gives your handle bar.
Lots of cyclists ride like that and manage to pull left to let cars through then pull out again - I certainly do. I don't think Neil was suggesting cyclists (of which he is one himself) should always ride in/near the gutter. That would be silly.head in the large metal box behind them trys to squeeze them or there is something in the gutter or at the side of the road they have space to move around and avoid the danger ride 6 inches from the curb and all the space you will have is the 6 inches to your left the width of half your handle bar and what ever space the passing driver gives your handle bar.oyster said:
Lawbags said:
It annoys the hell out of me too.
I'm a cyclist (mainly off road) and always ensure that cars can pass...even pulling over if need be.
If you were in your car and a faster car came up behind you on a country lane, would you pull over to let them pass?I'm a cyclist (mainly off road) and always ensure that cars can pass...even pulling over if need be.
its always referred to as
c7xlg said:
driving 'well' (ie safe fast progress with consideration to all other users)
until there is an accident, then it becomes "death by dangerous driving"... but you get away with a 9 month custodial sentance...Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 5th September 19:47
I wont join my local club rides for exactly this reason. I see club family rides where parents are even pushing their kids along twisty fast roads where the fast loons will be hitting 70 around bends (i.e. dad rides one handed with his spare hand pushing on kiddos back). I'm not saying I haven't driven at high speed but age decrees that I now realise there's nothing worth rushing that much for so I stick to speed appropriate to the distance I can see ahead (lots of horses and tractors as well as bikes). I wont ride down a road which has a white line down the middle for any longer than I strictly have too.
People are just getting wound up too much nowadays, everyones in a rush to get home/gym/pub/meeting. Even last sunday I was out chasing my 10yr old as usual. We were cracking along a fairly straight road and he had about 30m on me when a fat new merc came up behind me, paused for a sec and accelerated past. He then saw kiddo and thought he'd pin it past even though there was a gentle bend coming up - just at the point when a car comes the other way. I saw his EBA kick in (taillights went bezerk) and the car stood on its nose and then he swerved left in the direction of the kiddo..... I sh~t myself... I think he brought 2 tonnes of E class down to ~ 15mph about 30cm from the boys back wheel. What could we do though? In general on a 60mph back lane we keep to the kerb as most cars will just overtake safely. If laddo adopted secondary position then there's a chance that a fast car coming round the bend wouldn't see him until its too late?
I will take the primary position on the road through a village for example if I know there are cars and obstacles I need to pass and then take secondary (almost all the time) and gave a little wave / nod to anyone I've held up. I see the same cars daily anyway and everyone knows me so its cool. Out on the open road if someone comes up behind me/us I often head for a gate/driveway opening and hide but it can ruin a nice ride if you have to stop all the time.
You cant win really. I'll have to move next to a velodrome.
Anyone who rides in town gets a big kahunas award from me. I cant do it.
People are just getting wound up too much nowadays, everyones in a rush to get home/gym/pub/meeting. Even last sunday I was out chasing my 10yr old as usual. We were cracking along a fairly straight road and he had about 30m on me when a fat new merc came up behind me, paused for a sec and accelerated past. He then saw kiddo and thought he'd pin it past even though there was a gentle bend coming up - just at the point when a car comes the other way. I saw his EBA kick in (taillights went bezerk) and the car stood on its nose and then he swerved left in the direction of the kiddo..... I sh~t myself... I think he brought 2 tonnes of E class down to ~ 15mph about 30cm from the boys back wheel. What could we do though? In general on a 60mph back lane we keep to the kerb as most cars will just overtake safely. If laddo adopted secondary position then there's a chance that a fast car coming round the bend wouldn't see him until its too late?
I will take the primary position on the road through a village for example if I know there are cars and obstacles I need to pass and then take secondary (almost all the time) and gave a little wave / nod to anyone I've held up. I see the same cars daily anyway and everyone knows me so its cool. Out on the open road if someone comes up behind me/us I often head for a gate/driveway opening and hide but it can ruin a nice ride if you have to stop all the time.
You cant win really. I'll have to move next to a velodrome.
Anyone who rides in town gets a big kahunas award from me. I cant do it.
vvill said:
Mr Will said:
Would it be any easier to pass 15 cyclists in single file?
On narrow roads it's generally easier for a car to get past a compact bunch than a long string, plus you get a lot less dodgy overtakes attempted.
This. On narrow roads it's generally easier for a car to get past a compact bunch than a long string, plus you get a lot less dodgy overtakes attempted.
Engineer1 said:
c7xlg said:
Maybe not pull over, but I would make their life easier to get pass (hung the left side of the road, briefly blip left indicators when I can see safe to overtake so they know I'm keeping left). I wouldn't deliberatly drive as close to the middle of the road as possible to try and block them overtaking that is for sure!
Though it it was a single track road (like many in northern scotland) I WOULD pull over after passing no more than 2 passing places to let them past.
The middle of the road chestnut again, the reason cyclist ride out from the curb is that if teh dThough it it was a single track road (like many in northern scotland) I WOULD pull over after passing no more than 2 passing places to let them past.
head in the large metal box behind them trys to squeeze them or there is something in the gutter or at the side of the road they have space to move around and avoid the danger ride 6 inches from the curb and all the space you will have is the 6 inches to your left the width of half your handle bar and what ever space the passing driver gives your handle bar.I was describing how I drive a car there, not how I cycle. Though actually it is pretty similar. When cycling if I know where is a car behind me and I can see the road is clear head for 1) them to pass and 2) me not to ride into a pot hole I WILL hung the kerb to give them room. It is the BAD cyclist who ALWAYS ride down the middle of the lane. It is the correct thing to do sometimes, but other times an inconsiderate unnecessary thing to do.
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