Cyclists of London..
Discussion
Can I ask why none of you seem to use the shared surfaces along the roads to avoid being squashed between the kerbs and trucks, caught up in queueing traffic etc? It's most puzzling.
Is there any particular reason for not using them (especially along the Victoria / Chelsea embankment)?
Is there any particular reason for not using them (especially along the Victoria / Chelsea embankment)?
Shared as in with pedestrians? I'd take my chances with the traffic! Pedestrians are normally paying less attention than motorists, most will have ipods etc on and are oblivious to anything coming up behind them thus will step out without looking over their shoulder.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 11th September 19:55
vonuber said:
Yes, as in a shared surface. It baffles me they don't along there, especially as pedestrian traffic is relatively low, and motor traffic very high and murderous.
Have you ridden along there?The surface is very rough paving. It makes very uncomfortable riding unless you have full suspension.
It has numerous pinch-points and jutting out slabs where the benches are.
There are a few pedestrians and no demarcation of cycling/walking areas.
It's not that easy to join/leave.
Finally the fact that it's a shared path is really badly signed meaning peds might not be expecting cyclists.
All in all it's a rather token effort at a proper usable cycling facility.
I do use it if the traffic is really snarled up, but generally the road along there is wide enough for a decent pace without holding up any traffic. There are also few turnings meaning that speed can be maintained and there are not that many opportunities for being murdered by turning traffic.
I also make use of the Cyle Superhighways as they are properly marked and maintained. As usual, if cycling facilities are provided that are better than riding on the road, they'll be used. If not, it's pointless having them.
will_ said:
As usual, if cycling facilities are provided that are better than riding on the road, they'll be used. If not, it's pointless having them.
This.Shared facilities don't work as pedestrians do not look for cyclists, do not keep off the marked cycle lanes and slow the cyclist down too much. The road feels safer because you can make progress with less surprise moments.
The problem with non-cyclists is that in their mind, a cyclist is a road user who potters along at 5mph, barely above walking speed on a basket-equipped cruiser with fat 30psi inflated tyres and a comfortable saddle. They think that 'cyclists' can meander slowly in and out of pedestrians (as they won't be going any faster than that), and more often than not they won't have any understanding how road surface and obstructions affect the safety, speed or efficiency of the rider. That's why they get pissed off with 'cyclists' using their road, which is meant for cars, trucks and buses.
I think there's a mentality that a cyclist using a road is trying to better the car, and trying to hold up road users on purpose, on a self-proclaimed mission to save the planet by exercising (no pun intended) their right to ride on the road. The motorist then gets all huffy and puffy when they come across a cyclist holding them up, and rambles on about why don't cyclists get off the bloody roads where they'd be safer.
I used to be one of these people in my late teens, my car was the best thing ever, I used to hate cyclists on the road and I used to think they were the self righteous w
kers previously described. But then I started riding myself, and I found I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I now cringe when I look back at some of the things I used to say about cyclists because I didn't appreciate how it felt and how much safer certain actions make the cyclist.
There's a reason that cyclists prefer the road, and a lot of motorists can't understand this, but it is safer. A decent road cyclist will hold 15-30mph, they'll behave in exactly the same manner as a car, they'll take similar road positioning, they'll signal their intentions, the only downside is they're slightly slower than a car but most of their behaviour is predictable, as it would be following a car. Road bikes are fast, but they're twitchy, they have 23-28mm wide slick tyres that are inflated to over 100psi which helps them roll well. They feel every bump and change in surface. The brakes, although effective, aren't great, and slamming them on unsettles the bike quite a lot. For the best pedal efficiency, they're clipped to the bike using shoes, so putting a quick foot down isn't easy. Momentum is key.
When you're in a car, you never get to see the st that accumulates at the side of the road, and builds up in a 1-2ft zone next to the kerb/grass. The rider that rides in this bit would be even more unsafe, as they'd either run straight through it or would be constantly swerving into the road. The broken glass, the sharp bits of bumper and number plates from car accidents, the metal prongs from broken umbrellas, the bottle tops, the dead animals, the hypodermic needles (yes, I've seen these), the wheel trims, the puddles of sticky mud hiding the potholes, the wet slippy newspaper, even just the tiny stones from the tarmac that accumulate outside the zone that cars and other vehicles use. You never get to see the 1-2 inch raised manhole covers, or the drains that stick out into the road which have perfectly formed slots to swallow a front tyre. Sitting in your car you don't appreciate the night and day difference between riding in all that st at the side of the road, and that perfectly smooth zone of tarmac where YOUR wheel of the car is rolling. That's where the cyclist wants to be.
From inside a car, the pavement or shared bike lane might look perfect for cycling, but again, you fail to realise that we can hold 15mph+ easily, and doing that speed inches from pedestrians is actually pretty dangerous. You've never had an iPod equipped pedestrian not hear you coming, who has moved 6 inches to the left for no reason and has clipped your handlebar with their elbow. You don't see that group of teenagers sitting on the wall spitting at you, you don't see the dog walkers with their extendable leads across the paths, you never see the smeared dogst on the pavement, or the puddles of dog piss that flick up around your ankles when you ride through them. You don't see the young mum with a toddler and a pushchair, who's also on the phone, as a threat to your safety. You've never had to smash your front wheel into a tree root that has grown through the tarmac, you don't see the broken glass, the carrier bags, the constant stopping at each street crossing that makes most bike lanes pointless. You see the delivery trucks parked at the side of the road but you don't notice that they've parked across the entire bike lane blocking it off.
Once you get into the mind of a cyclist, and appreciate it for yourself, you see the world from a different perspective. That my friend, is why cyclists prefer to use the roads, and not shared bike paths or pavements.
I think there's a mentality that a cyclist using a road is trying to better the car, and trying to hold up road users on purpose, on a self-proclaimed mission to save the planet by exercising (no pun intended) their right to ride on the road. The motorist then gets all huffy and puffy when they come across a cyclist holding them up, and rambles on about why don't cyclists get off the bloody roads where they'd be safer.
I used to be one of these people in my late teens, my car was the best thing ever, I used to hate cyclists on the road and I used to think they were the self righteous w
kers previously described. But then I started riding myself, and I found I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I now cringe when I look back at some of the things I used to say about cyclists because I didn't appreciate how it felt and how much safer certain actions make the cyclist. There's a reason that cyclists prefer the road, and a lot of motorists can't understand this, but it is safer. A decent road cyclist will hold 15-30mph, they'll behave in exactly the same manner as a car, they'll take similar road positioning, they'll signal their intentions, the only downside is they're slightly slower than a car but most of their behaviour is predictable, as it would be following a car. Road bikes are fast, but they're twitchy, they have 23-28mm wide slick tyres that are inflated to over 100psi which helps them roll well. They feel every bump and change in surface. The brakes, although effective, aren't great, and slamming them on unsettles the bike quite a lot. For the best pedal efficiency, they're clipped to the bike using shoes, so putting a quick foot down isn't easy. Momentum is key.
When you're in a car, you never get to see the s
t that accumulates at the side of the road, and builds up in a 1-2ft zone next to the kerb/grass. The rider that rides in this bit would be even more unsafe, as they'd either run straight through it or would be constantly swerving into the road. The broken glass, the sharp bits of bumper and number plates from car accidents, the metal prongs from broken umbrellas, the bottle tops, the dead animals, the hypodermic needles (yes, I've seen these), the wheel trims, the puddles of sticky mud hiding the potholes, the wet slippy newspaper, even just the tiny stones from the tarmac that accumulate outside the zone that cars and other vehicles use. You never get to see the 1-2 inch raised manhole covers, or the drains that stick out into the road which have perfectly formed slots to swallow a front tyre. Sitting in your car you don't appreciate the night and day difference between riding in all that st at the side of the road, and that perfectly smooth zone of tarmac where YOUR wheel of the car is rolling. That's where the cyclist wants to be. From inside a car, the pavement or shared bike lane might look perfect for cycling, but again, you fail to realise that we can hold 15mph+ easily, and doing that speed inches from pedestrians is actually pretty dangerous. You've never had an iPod equipped pedestrian not hear you coming, who has moved 6 inches to the left for no reason and has clipped your handlebar with their elbow. You don't see that group of teenagers sitting on the wall spitting at you, you don't see the dog walkers with their extendable leads across the paths, you never see the smeared dogs
t on the pavement, or the puddles of dog piss that flick up around your ankles when you ride through them. You don't see the young mum with a toddler and a pushchair, who's also on the phone, as a threat to your safety. You've never had to smash your front wheel into a tree root that has grown through the tarmac, you don't see the broken glass, the carrier bags, the constant stopping at each street crossing that makes most bike lanes pointless. You see the delivery trucks parked at the side of the road but you don't notice that they've parked across the entire bike lane blocking it off.Once you get into the mind of a cyclist, and appreciate it for yourself, you see the world from a different perspective. That my friend, is why cyclists prefer to use the roads, and not shared bike paths or pavements.
Mac, well said. When a car passes me dangerously on the road, I sometimes count how much time he gains on me ( I work in an industrial area with access via 1 route so most cars end up where I'm going )...
It's very often a few seconds if that, it takes me 35 minutes ish to ride, 30 minutes to drive. The route I ride is longer and the route I drive is on 70mph A roads.
Please, take a few seconds out of your day so everyone can just use the roads safely.
It's very often a few seconds if that, it takes me 35 minutes ish to ride, 30 minutes to drive. The route I ride is longer and the route I drive is on 70mph A roads.
Please, take a few seconds out of your day so everyone can just use the roads safely.
Aha, you misunderstand me - there is a section along the road where to turn left you can use the shared footpath to avoid having to queue at the traffic lights squeezed up against the kerb:
So instead of queuing up on the right hand side squeezed against the kerb, why not in this instance utilise the surface to avoid the conflict? Everyday it amazes me that people would rather queue up than use this to avoid a dangerous section of the road - I know it's not great but surely better than the alternative?
(For what it's worth, I ride a motorbike in London so have an understanding of the perils you face).
So instead of queuing up on the right hand side squeezed against the kerb, why not in this instance utilise the surface to avoid the conflict? Everyday it amazes me that people would rather queue up than use this to avoid a dangerous section of the road - I know it's not great but surely better than the alternative?
(For what it's worth, I ride a motorbike in London so have an understanding of the perils you face).
Cyclists are in the wrong if they are overtaking near the kerb or are stationary so cars have to overtake. When I see a queue ahead I merge with the traffic so act as a Motorbike. Then if I can't overtake safely on the right hand side of the cars, I wait in the queue in the middle of the road, take off and when the cars start going faster, pull back to the left and wave to the car behind for not hitting me.
I have never been jammed against a kerb, had a near miss or cars beep/shout/wave/claim I don't pay road tax.
I have never been jammed against a kerb, had a near miss or cars beep/shout/wave/claim I don't pay road tax.
McFsC said:
Mac, well said. When a car passes me dangerously on the road, I sometimes count how much time he gains on me ( I work in an industrial area with access via 1 route so most cars end up where I'm going )...
It's very often a few seconds if that, it takes me 35 minutes ish to ride, 30 minutes to drive. The route I ride is longer and the route I drive is on 70mph A roads.
Please, take a few seconds out of your day so everyone can just use the roads safely.
You commute along an NSL dual carriageway? Lunatic!It's very often a few seconds if that, it takes me 35 minutes ish to ride, 30 minutes to drive. The route I ride is longer and the route I drive is on 70mph A roads.
Please, take a few seconds out of your day so everyone can just use the roads safely.
vonuber said:
Aha, you misunderstand me - there is a section along the road where to turn left you can use the shared footpath to avoid having to queue at the traffic lights squeezed up against the kerb:
So instead of queuing up on the right hand side squeezed against the kerb, why not in this instance utilise the surface to avoid the conflict? Everyday it amazes me that people would rather queue up than use this to avoid a dangerous section of the road - I know it's not great but surely better than the alternative?
(For what it's worth, I ride a motorbike in London so have an understanding of the perils you face).
Even looking at that picture, I can't see where the shared path is? If the planners had wanted to make it clearer, why not just run blue tarmac over the corner to maintain the continuation of the route?So instead of queuing up on the right hand side squeezed against the kerb, why not in this instance utilise the surface to avoid the conflict? Everyday it amazes me that people would rather queue up than use this to avoid a dangerous section of the road - I know it's not great but surely better than the alternative?
(For what it's worth, I ride a motorbike in London so have an understanding of the perils you face).
Of course it may be that it's clearly signposted from the other direction, but I can't see that...
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff