Drivers & SMIDSY - what can be done?
Discussion
I was coming home yesterday after a lovely ride out, I was coming into town the 'back way' so into a pretty quiet residential area, there is a very well sighted junction off to the left and an Audi A3 is approaching the give way sign, I'm normallywary of cars approaching from the left so I made a point of watching the car and also moving over to the right of my lane - just in case. Well what do you know the driver doesn't appear to see me and barely slows down for the junction before moving out on to the road, thankfully my act of moving over helped the situation but there was really no excuse for her not to see me. Visibility was excellent, I had a bright red jacket on as well as my front light set to strobe, as the junction is very open ended on a slight curve it's as clear sighted as you could really hope for.
What can be done?
She wasn't speeding just nothing more than careless, when I drive my car it's very rare that the same thing happens yet on a bike it's as if a Harry Potter style cloak has been thrown over me (and others).
It doesn't appear to be confinded to one motoring group either, it's people in nice cars, s
te cars, yummy mummies, bob the builders and even those with blue lights on top!
Still, at least it provides an endorphin rush!
What can be done?
She wasn't speeding just nothing more than careless, when I drive my car it's very rare that the same thing happens yet on a bike it's as if a Harry Potter style cloak has been thrown over me (and others).
It doesn't appear to be confinded to one motoring group either, it's people in nice cars, s
te cars, yummy mummies, bob the builders and even those with blue lights on top!Still, at least it provides an endorphin rush!
TheFungle said:
What can be done?
Not much really and sadly being in the right is not an effective pain killer. Take a leaf out of the motorcyclists book and assume that everyone waiting at a junction will not have seen you. Slow down and be prepared to stop. Just about the only upside is that generally you've got enough options, time and space to move out of harms way.
Unfortunately, it's all too easy for our brains to be elsewhere when driving (even more so with non-petrolheads imo). The fact that cars increasingly try to "help" drivers by doing things for them makes people pay even less attention to their driving imo.
Your best bet to avoid SMIDSY would be to ride defensively and be observant (as you're already doing), but you also might want to consider adding 2 more wheels to your bike. And perhaps, an aerodynamic fairing
Something like this maybe;
Your best bet to avoid SMIDSY would be to ride defensively and be observant (as you're already doing), but you also might want to consider adding 2 more wheels to your bike. And perhaps, an aerodynamic fairing
Something like this maybe;
Similar to my accident in June. He wasn't speeding, just didn't look and when he got to the roundabout I was already there...
It's meant I look twice now when I'm driving. Perhaps all car drivers should be bounced off the front of a Passat as part of the test? Focuses the mind somewhat.
It's meant I look twice now when I'm driving. Perhaps all car drivers should be bounced off the front of a Passat as part of the test? Focuses the mind somewhat.
All good posts so far, I just:
-Ride with a strobe on the front during daylight (helps a lot I find)
-Presume that the car in question wouldn't stop, so look for an "Escape Option"
-Move over to the middle of the road (if no traffic in your lane)
-Try and get eye contact with driver
-Make note of "problem" junctions, so you are extra aware next time you go near it.
Sounds like OP you did what you could
-Ride with a strobe on the front during daylight (helps a lot I find)
-Presume that the car in question wouldn't stop, so look for an "Escape Option"
-Move over to the middle of the road (if no traffic in your lane)
-Try and get eye contact with driver
-Make note of "problem" junctions, so you are extra aware next time you go near it.
Sounds like OP you did what you could
The standard of driving goes ever downward. If someone can't be bothered to look before pulling out they are not fit to be behind the wheel.
In a historical context these people would not survive & therefore their genes would be removed from the gene pool but unfortunately technology ensures that idiots with no sense of self-preservation can survive & reproduce. Evolution has gone into reverse.
In a historical context these people would not survive & therefore their genes would be removed from the gene pool but unfortunately technology ensures that idiots with no sense of self-preservation can survive & reproduce. Evolution has gone into reverse.
This is a discussion that is also highly relevant for motorcyclists as well.
I used to ride motorbikes up until a couple of years ago and as has been mentioned above, I simply assumed every motorist at a side junction WAS going to pull out on me. Thankfully it never happened.
I rode with my dipped beam on all the time and fitted my bike with some super bright blue/white 'brilliance' bulbs which made it stand out when the lights were on.
I now ride a bicycle on the road for fun/exercise, and I've had a couple of people pull out on me, but fortunately I'm a slightly unfit 33 year old riding a hybrid bike in a city and not Bradley Wiggins, therefore I've only been doing 10-15mph each time meaning that avoiding a collision simply required a squeeze on the brakes and some swearing.
Had I of been wearing Lycra and doing 30mph I would almost certainly have come to a painful stop against the side of an Audi.
In my opinion, absolutely nothing can be done apart from riding with a bright front light on even in daytime (I do) and wearing a bright/Fluro jacket or to (I sometimes do).
A study was done a few years ago by scientists on the whole SMIDSY thing, and it turns out that human brains become so accustomed to seeing cars and lorries that a bicycle or motorcycle is classes as unexpected in our brains, so subconsciously we don't actually look for them at all.
That is why you get the whole cloak of invisibility thing, and even have drivers look right at you but not see you. Their brains aren't looking for a bicycle as an approaching hazard, they are looking for another car.
So... From a purely scientific and human psycological point of view, it is indeed impossible to solve as a problem.
You can only mitigate against it as much as possible by making yourself more visible and riding at a speed/position whereby you can stop in a very short space if required. Admittedly this isn't helpful if you are 6 feet away from a car when it pulls out, but still...
I used to ride motorbikes up until a couple of years ago and as has been mentioned above, I simply assumed every motorist at a side junction WAS going to pull out on me. Thankfully it never happened.
I rode with my dipped beam on all the time and fitted my bike with some super bright blue/white 'brilliance' bulbs which made it stand out when the lights were on.
I now ride a bicycle on the road for fun/exercise, and I've had a couple of people pull out on me, but fortunately I'm a slightly unfit 33 year old riding a hybrid bike in a city and not Bradley Wiggins, therefore I've only been doing 10-15mph each time meaning that avoiding a collision simply required a squeeze on the brakes and some swearing.
Had I of been wearing Lycra and doing 30mph I would almost certainly have come to a painful stop against the side of an Audi.
In my opinion, absolutely nothing can be done apart from riding with a bright front light on even in daytime (I do) and wearing a bright/Fluro jacket or to (I sometimes do).
A study was done a few years ago by scientists on the whole SMIDSY thing, and it turns out that human brains become so accustomed to seeing cars and lorries that a bicycle or motorcycle is classes as unexpected in our brains, so subconsciously we don't actually look for them at all.
That is why you get the whole cloak of invisibility thing, and even have drivers look right at you but not see you. Their brains aren't looking for a bicycle as an approaching hazard, they are looking for another car.
So... From a purely scientific and human psycological point of view, it is indeed impossible to solve as a problem.
You can only mitigate against it as much as possible by making yourself more visible and riding at a speed/position whereby you can stop in a very short space if required. Admittedly this isn't helpful if you are 6 feet away from a car when it pulls out, but still...
TheFungle said:
BGarside said:
The standard of driving goes ever downward. If someone can't be bothered to look before pulling out they are not fit to be behind the wheel.
The lady in this particular instance did look, she just didn't see.See my post above. She wasn't looking for a bicycle, she was looking for a car/lorry, her brain didn't see one so told her it was safe to go.
Interesting perspective from NinjaPower.
One of the issues I find with riding around MK is the H & V roads are NSL. When you are turning right on the roundabout people come from the road at right angle to the road you are turning into rarely look on the roaundabout. They are always looking down the road behind where you are going looking for a clear exit. If they think it is clear they go without ever checking if the roundabout is clear.
Quite a few times I have had to shout at people to get their attention.
One of the issues I find with riding around MK is the H & V roads are NSL. When you are turning right on the roundabout people come from the road at right angle to the road you are turning into rarely look on the roaundabout. They are always looking down the road behind where you are going looking for a clear exit. If they think it is clear they go without ever checking if the roundabout is clear.
Quite a few times I have had to shout at people to get their attention.
I'm not sure it's restricted to being on a bike - I'm sure more people pull out now if they think I can stop before I hit them (when I'm in a car) rather than when it's sensible.
There are countless times when people DO see me, but pull out anyway, presumably because they think I'm wobbling around. This does seem to happen less on dark nights when i have a decent light, presumably because it's not easy to tell what I am rather than because people drive more safely. But, like is say, it happens when I'm driving too.
My old man told me to assume everyone was going to pull out on me when I passed my test - good advice, even if I'm guilty of not always following it ...
There are countless times when people DO see me, but pull out anyway, presumably because they think I'm wobbling around. This does seem to happen less on dark nights when i have a decent light, presumably because it's not easy to tell what I am rather than because people drive more safely. But, like is say, it happens when I'm driving too.
My old man told me to assume everyone was going to pull out on me when I passed my test - good advice, even if I'm guilty of not always following it ...
Shouldn't that be SMIJDSY - the "just" is the real killer!
Happened to me recently, school dad with his babies in his silver Merc 4 wheel drive, pulled out of his country mansion right in front of me. I'd spotted the kids in the car so didn't give him all the Anglo-saxon at my disposal, and he was very apologetic, but is is still staggering when it happens.
When I think it is going to happen I make some movement or other, whether it is going up on the tops from the drops or vice versa, exaggerate a look behind, scratch my head or arse, just anything to catch their eye.
Happened to me recently, school dad with his babies in his silver Merc 4 wheel drive, pulled out of his country mansion right in front of me. I'd spotted the kids in the car so didn't give him all the Anglo-saxon at my disposal, and he was very apologetic, but is is still staggering when it happens.
When I think it is going to happen I make some movement or other, whether it is going up on the tops from the drops or vice versa, exaggerate a look behind, scratch my head or arse, just anything to catch their eye.
TheFungle said:
BGarside said:
The standard of driving goes ever downward. If someone can't be bothered to look before pulling out they are not fit to be behind the wheel.
The lady in this particular instance did look, she just didn't see.http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyc...
Seems to happen a lot less from dusk onwards - mainly because the might miss the bike, but they can't miss my lights... Stupidly bright ones help.
Ironically I did it to a motorbike the other day - just didn't see him (minor mitigation - the junction is very limited in visibility) and if I can (same applies to most phers) then everyone else on the road is doing it a lot more often....
Ironically I did it to a motorbike the other day - just didn't see him (minor mitigation - the junction is very limited in visibility) and if I can (same applies to most phers) then everyone else on the road is doing it a lot more often....
I've certainly become a lot more careful at junctions since I bought a new Mondeo. The 'A' pillar is just massive, so big you need a second look in case a car is 'hiding' behind it, let alone a bike. Like someone above alluded to, the more safety features are fitted to cars for the protection of their occupants, the less safe the roads seem to get for everyone else.
In the meantime, if you are stuck behind a Mondeo at a junction and it's being 'unduly hesitant' then it might well be me, and I'm not "hesitant" - I'm "Thinking Bike!"
Just the other night I think I may have saved a cyclist from being rear ended on the A325 - the stupid girl in the little Peugeot ahead and to my left gave the game away when she 'straight-lined' the Frimley roundabout, cutting me up. As I got alongside I could see she was more interested in her smartphone than the act of driving (appeared to be reading a text/email) so I gave her a (very) long blast of the horn, which woke her up in time to avoid hitting the cyclist ahead of her, and gave the cyclist the time to get as far left as possible out of harm's way.
[Devil's advocate]Controversial I know, but I'd happily see the wilfully stupid rounded up and shot. Or sterilised at the very least, to prevent further dilution of 'good' genes.[/Devil's Advocate]
In the meantime, if you are stuck behind a Mondeo at a junction and it's being 'unduly hesitant' then it might well be me, and I'm not "hesitant" - I'm "Thinking Bike!"
Just the other night I think I may have saved a cyclist from being rear ended on the A325 - the stupid girl in the little Peugeot ahead and to my left gave the game away when she 'straight-lined' the Frimley roundabout, cutting me up. As I got alongside I could see she was more interested in her smartphone than the act of driving (appeared to be reading a text/email) so I gave her a (very) long blast of the horn, which woke her up in time to avoid hitting the cyclist ahead of her, and gave the cyclist the time to get as far left as possible out of harm's way.
[Devil's advocate]Controversial I know, but I'd happily see the wilfully stupid rounded up and shot. Or sterilised at the very least, to prevent further dilution of 'good' genes.[/Devil's Advocate]
TheFungle said:
I was coming home yesterday after a lovely ride out, I was coming into town the 'back way' so into a pretty quiet residential area, there is a very well sighted junction off to the left and an Audi A3 is approaching the give way sign, I'm normallywary of cars approaching from the left so I made a point of watching the car and also moving over to the right of my lane - just in case. Well what do you know the driver doesn't appear to see me and barely slows down for the junction before moving out on to the road, thankfully my act of moving over helped the situation but there was really no excuse for her not to see me. Visibility was excellent, I had a bright red jacket on as well as my front light set to strobe, as the junction is very open ended on a slight curve it's as clear sighted as you could really hope for.
What can be done?
She wasn't speeding just nothing more than careless, when I drive my car it's very rare that the same thing happens yet on a bike it's as if a Harry Potter style cloak has been thrown over me (and others).
It doesn't appear to be confinded to one motoring group either, it's people in nice cars, ste cars, yummy mummies, bob the builders and even those with blue lights on top!
Still, at least it provides an endorphin rush!
Assume everyone is out to kill you, that way you'll be pleasantly surprised when they don't What can be done?
She wasn't speeding just nothing more than careless, when I drive my car it's very rare that the same thing happens yet on a bike it's as if a Harry Potter style cloak has been thrown over me (and others).
It doesn't appear to be confinded to one motoring group either, it's people in nice cars, s
te cars, yummy mummies, bob the builders and even those with blue lights on top!Still, at least it provides an endorphin rush!
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