Basic nutrition question ...
Discussion
A quick question,
Is there a distance/time when you should need to start thinking about nutrition and fluid intake more than just a litre bottle of barley water?
At the moment i'm riding about 30/40 miles and want to slowly start upping the distances (Ok, they are only slowish miles, but i'm reaching the point where i'm surprising myself with my discipline and my stamina)
Cheers.
Is there a distance/time when you should need to start thinking about nutrition and fluid intake more than just a litre bottle of barley water?
At the moment i'm riding about 30/40 miles and want to slowly start upping the distances (Ok, they are only slowish miles, but i'm reaching the point where i'm surprising myself with my discipline and my stamina)
Cheers.
Probably best to avoid what I did last weekend.
1 - Get in after a very fast club ride (felt like I had nothing left to give at the end).
2 - Make massive fry up.
3 - Eat said massive fry up.
4 - Decide I cant keep my eyes open any more and go to bed about 3pm.
5 - Wake up about 7am the next day still wearing cycling gear and thinking it was only an hour or so's nap.... oops...
1 - Get in after a very fast club ride (felt like I had nothing left to give at the end).
2 - Make massive fry up.
3 - Eat said massive fry up.
4 - Decide I cant keep my eyes open any more and go to bed about 3pm.
5 - Wake up about 7am the next day still wearing cycling gear and thinking it was only an hour or so's nap.... oops...
Everyone is different, we all burn energy at different rates and we all crave different things when we tire too but it wont hurt to have a banana or a cheese/ham roll with you and some biscuits or flapjack. There is no set rule and the more you ride the less you will eat or drink as your body gets familiar with the feeling of burning into its glycogen stores.
The first time I hit the wall it was at 55km. That wasn't pretty, so after that I used to have a slice of peanut butter and toast before going out; a few weeks later I did my first 100km on just the toast and some sugar roasted nuts.
Then one day I got a bit lost, forgot to eat anything as I was feeling so good, bonked at 70km. The last 6-7km home were terrible. Like: leaning on the bars groaning and pedalling in bottom gear along the flat.
Eat before you get hungry.
Then one day I got a bit lost, forgot to eat anything as I was feeling so good, bonked at 70km. The last 6-7km home were terrible. Like: leaning on the bars groaning and pedalling in bottom gear along the flat.
Eat before you get hungry.
I you are at the correct weight or the weight you want to be at and maintain
Before your ride fill the fuel tank up a couple of hours before you ride so you have some fuel in the tank
During the ride drink energy drinks after 20 mins and every 20 mins thereafter (not the fizzy one) Science in Sport Go is a good ride drink, this will give you both fluid and energy. There is quite a lot of guidance for the amount of SIS GO, to use on there web site. More solid foods are required for longer harder rides again SIS have products for this.
After your ride you have a window of 90 mins to replace the energy to help recovery so depending on your type of ride you will need to refill the fuel tank with carbohydrates and protein along with all the little minerals and vitamins your body needs.
If you fail to eat a balanced meal or a quality recovery drink (this does not replace a balanced diet) your body will tear it's self apart to get the fuel to recover this is why you feel terrible if you do not refuel in time. And it also dilutes the training you have just done.
If you look at the colour of your urine it should be straw coloured if it gets to orange you are dehydrated if it stings as well you are in trouble.
Keep an eye on your weight before and after a ride a loss of 1kg in sweat requires 1.2 ltr of fluid to recover the weight loss (you don't retain all of it) and an other note drinking just water will wash you body clean removing some of the minerals you need to recover so drink water with some fruit squash added to it to help absorption into your bodies system. Also if you drink too much energy drinks you will put weight on.
Rest/sleep after training as this is when the repairs to your body happen.
Before your ride fill the fuel tank up a couple of hours before you ride so you have some fuel in the tank
During the ride drink energy drinks after 20 mins and every 20 mins thereafter (not the fizzy one) Science in Sport Go is a good ride drink, this will give you both fluid and energy. There is quite a lot of guidance for the amount of SIS GO, to use on there web site. More solid foods are required for longer harder rides again SIS have products for this.
After your ride you have a window of 90 mins to replace the energy to help recovery so depending on your type of ride you will need to refill the fuel tank with carbohydrates and protein along with all the little minerals and vitamins your body needs.
If you fail to eat a balanced meal or a quality recovery drink (this does not replace a balanced diet) your body will tear it's self apart to get the fuel to recover this is why you feel terrible if you do not refuel in time. And it also dilutes the training you have just done.
If you look at the colour of your urine it should be straw coloured if it gets to orange you are dehydrated if it stings as well you are in trouble.
Keep an eye on your weight before and after a ride a loss of 1kg in sweat requires 1.2 ltr of fluid to recover the weight loss (you don't retain all of it) and an other note drinking just water will wash you body clean removing some of the minerals you need to recover so drink water with some fruit squash added to it to help absorption into your bodies system. Also if you drink too much energy drinks you will put weight on.
Rest/sleep after training as this is when the repairs to your body happen.
I'm hypoglycemic, so I carry teh same blood monitoring kit as diabetics. What I have learnt is whilst I feel fine, my body can say differently before I experiance a full on hypo.
My tell tale symptoms be a drop in concentration or silly mistakes. For instance at the last archery comp I was at, I put 2 arrows underneath a target at 23 yards. I felt perfectly fine, but blood sugar read 3.2
Best I can say is learn your body under exercise, and learn to eat before you think you need to.
My tell tale symptoms be a drop in concentration or silly mistakes. For instance at the last archery comp I was at, I put 2 arrows underneath a target at 23 yards. I felt perfectly fine, but blood sugar read 3.2
Best I can say is learn your body under exercise, and learn to eat before you think you need to.
I don't really have a great deal of expertise in this area, but I've massively ramped up my mileage in October. My 'fuelling plan', for what it's worth, is to carry two 710ml bottles of Robinson's double concentrate no added sugar squash, and two Jordan's breakfast bars (preferably NOT the Maple and Pecan as they are too dry!) along with an 'absolute emergency' tube of glucose tablets.
Anything up to about 50 miles, so long as I've eaten a 'normal' meal before departing, and I find I'll use about 75% of the fluids and one of the cereal bars. If I go further/longer, I just try to make sure I pass a chippy or a café at the right time to grab something 'more substantial' to buy with the cash stash I keep with my mobile phone and driver's license. If I need more fluids I'll buy some still Lucozade Sport or something similar at A.N.Other's corner shop somewhere en route. After all, it's Surrey/Hampshire I'm riding in, not the Sahara/Himalayas, and there are usually shops within striking distance if I really need them.
I did flirt with the energy drink powders, and 'fuel bars' for a while, but seriously, I've not noticed a detrimental effect on my riding since reverting to a more 'low-tech' nutritional approach whilst out on the bike. Do I get 'lows' when riding? Yeah, sure, but I haven't experienced the dreaded "bonk" in the last couple of years. I imagine the 'lows' could be held back by eating earlier, and possibly drinking more, but hey, enjoyment of the miles I do is more important to me than fretting over the minutiae of when and what to shove into my fat pie-hole.
Anything up to about 50 miles, so long as I've eaten a 'normal' meal before departing, and I find I'll use about 75% of the fluids and one of the cereal bars. If I go further/longer, I just try to make sure I pass a chippy or a café at the right time to grab something 'more substantial' to buy with the cash stash I keep with my mobile phone and driver's license. If I need more fluids I'll buy some still Lucozade Sport or something similar at A.N.Other's corner shop somewhere en route. After all, it's Surrey/Hampshire I'm riding in, not the Sahara/Himalayas, and there are usually shops within striking distance if I really need them.
I did flirt with the energy drink powders, and 'fuel bars' for a while, but seriously, I've not noticed a detrimental effect on my riding since reverting to a more 'low-tech' nutritional approach whilst out on the bike. Do I get 'lows' when riding? Yeah, sure, but I haven't experienced the dreaded "bonk" in the last couple of years. I imagine the 'lows' could be held back by eating earlier, and possibly drinking more, but hey, enjoyment of the miles I do is more important to me than fretting over the minutiae of when and what to shove into my fat pie-hole.
agentnomad said:
I you are at the correct weight or the weight you want to be at and maintain
Before your ride fill the fuel tank up a couple of hours before you ride so you have some fuel in the tank
During the ride drink energy drinks after 20 mins and every 20 mins thereafter (not the fizzy one) Science in Sport Go is a good ride drink, this will give you both fluid and energy. There is quite a lot of guidance for the amount of SIS GO, to use on there web site. More solid foods are required for longer harder rides again SIS have products for this.
After your ride you have a window of 90 mins to replace the energy to help recovery so depending on your type of ride you will need to refill the fuel tank with carbohydrates and protein along with all the little minerals and vitamins your body needs.
If you fail to eat a balanced meal or a quality recovery drink (this does not replace a balanced diet) your body will tear it's self apart to get the fuel to recover this is why you feel terrible if you do not refuel in time. And it also dilutes the training you have just done.
If you look at the colour of your urine it should be straw coloured if it gets to orange you are dehydrated if it stings as well you are in trouble.
Keep an eye on your weight before and after a ride a loss of 1kg in sweat requires 1.2 ltr of fluid to recover the weight loss (you don't retain all of it) and an other note drinking just water will wash you body clean removing some of the minerals you need to recover so drink water with some fruit squash added to it to help absorption into your bodies system. Also if you drink too much energy drinks you will put weight on.
Rest/sleep after training as this is when the repairs to your body happen.
Be cautious using the guidelines suggested by SiS et al, see here for example. On a 100 mile sportive they recommend 60-80g of carbs with 500-1000ml liquid per hour. Personally I think thats a hell of a lot of carbs and its going to cost you a fortune if you do it through their products! Even at a reasonable tempo of 25 km/h I doubt I get anywhere near that sort of consumption and I dont know anyone who does. The cynic in me suggests some of it is driven by the marketing men not the nutritionists. Even the pros like a sandwich in their musettes...Before your ride fill the fuel tank up a couple of hours before you ride so you have some fuel in the tank
During the ride drink energy drinks after 20 mins and every 20 mins thereafter (not the fizzy one) Science in Sport Go is a good ride drink, this will give you both fluid and energy. There is quite a lot of guidance for the amount of SIS GO, to use on there web site. More solid foods are required for longer harder rides again SIS have products for this.
After your ride you have a window of 90 mins to replace the energy to help recovery so depending on your type of ride you will need to refill the fuel tank with carbohydrates and protein along with all the little minerals and vitamins your body needs.
If you fail to eat a balanced meal or a quality recovery drink (this does not replace a balanced diet) your body will tear it's self apart to get the fuel to recover this is why you feel terrible if you do not refuel in time. And it also dilutes the training you have just done.
If you look at the colour of your urine it should be straw coloured if it gets to orange you are dehydrated if it stings as well you are in trouble.
Keep an eye on your weight before and after a ride a loss of 1kg in sweat requires 1.2 ltr of fluid to recover the weight loss (you don't retain all of it) and an other note drinking just water will wash you body clean removing some of the minerals you need to recover so drink water with some fruit squash added to it to help absorption into your bodies system. Also if you drink too much energy drinks you will put weight on.
Rest/sleep after training as this is when the repairs to your body happen.
As I always say, different manufacturers products work for different people, you always get High5 stuff at wiggle events and I bin most of it because it has little effect and it tastes foul. Dont forget to check the supermarkets own products or non-energy brand stuff for better value products that offer similar nutritional value.
pablo said:
Everyone is different, we all burn energy at different rates and we all crave different things when we tire too but it wont hurt to have a banana or a cheese/ham roll with you and some biscuits or flapjack. There is no set rule and the more you ride the less you will eat or drink as your body gets familiar with the feeling of burning into its glycogen stores.
This ⇪Everyone is different and conditioning makes a huge difference. The more you ride the more adept your body will become to dealing with your fueling needs. I am not going to spout advice because I only know what works for me, which is a decent intake before I ride, then a drip feed of carbs and hydration during the ride. For rides of 60 miles or less then I don't need anything more than a biddon of juice.
As for the nutritional advice on SIS, High5, etc web sites - remember, they are selling this stuff, they will never admit that a peanut butter sanry has the same, or better nutritional value than their range topping carbo-fuel! My fave recovery drink is a pint of milk infused with chocky Nesquick!
Best 'in flight' fuel for me is a banana or flapjack, but if there is a shocker of a hill on the horizon jelly babies are a great pick-me-up for a short, sharp blast!
My first 'long' ride was 58 miles, I scoffed all of the wrong stuff 'en route' and bonked about 48 miles in, the most hallucinating and painful thing I have in recent memory - mars bars, energy drinks and a raft of other b
ks did nothing for me other than a 2 or 3 mile pick-me-up. Decent meal the night before, half decent brekky and biddon of juice - sorted!!Massively depends on how hard (for you) you are going. Rule of thumb for me is that for rides less than about 2 hours I don't really need to take anything with me on the bike apart from a bottle of sports drink, which in anything other than warm weather I'll probably barely touch. Longer than that and things can get interesting.
If you are pottering around or doing light to moderate training, orange squash is as good as sports drink and supermarket muesli bars as good as Clif/powerbars. If you start doing races or endurance events, the sports drinks are generally a little bit better since the flavour and sweetness is dialled down (after 6 hours in the saddle the last thing you need is yet another tropical fruit burst) and the salt increased a bit
If you are pottering around or doing light to moderate training, orange squash is as good as sports drink and supermarket muesli bars as good as Clif/powerbars. If you start doing races or endurance events, the sports drinks are generally a little bit better since the flavour and sweetness is dialled down (after 6 hours in the saddle the last thing you need is yet another tropical fruit burst) and the salt increased a bit
78+ miles today. I took a 710ml bottle of squash and a 1 litre bottle to top up from, in the second cage. I used about two bottles worth during the ride. I took (but didn't eat) two Jordans cereal bars. In addition I stopped at the cafe at Box Hill and ate a sausage roll, a bakewell slice and had a cup of coffee. Recovery meal was more squash to wash down an Arrabiata pasta bake and a fruit pie with custard for 'afters'. So pretty much a normal day's food and some extra fluids for 78 miles with 5,500ft of climbing.
MadDad said:
Ah, you guys are on the wrong thread!!!!
You'd be suprised! Now I know what I have got, its not a problem. Give me a field archery coourse which is usually about a 4 mile hike and 6 - 8 hours of standing around with 40 shots I can eat like a horse! Just don't give me chocolate!Serioulsy chocolate seems to be my biggest enemy, I can almost garanttee a hypo after eating that stuff, but ccakes, cookies etc not a problem. I just need to, carefully I might add, meet sugar intake with energy used.
Its a bugger cos I have a right sweet tooth! Believe it or not it was work that first made me think about it, I used to have a high sugar intake at work and I could go from quiet to grumpy f
er in seconds flat. So much so I was getting pulled up on it by my manager, then one of my colleagues was diganosed type 1 diabetic. Talking to him about his treatment (I have a strong medical interest (long story, but I'm a good person to have around if bloods been spilt)), he was describing the symptoms and hypos.I took a week off and got to the medics, where I promptly had a hypo in his surgery! Then started the lifestyle and diet changes, and carrying a blood tester. Bugger me test strips can get expensive.
Celtic Dragon said:
You'd be suprised! Now I know what I have got, its not a problem. Give me a field archery coourse which is usually about a 4 mile hike and 6 - 8 hours of standing around with 40 shots I can eat like a horse! Just don't give me chocolate!
Serioulsy chocolate seems to be my biggest enemy, I can almost garanttee a hypo after eating that stuff, but ccakes, cookies etc not a problem. I just need to, carefully I might add, meet sugar intake with energy used.
Its a bugger cos I have a right sweet tooth! Believe it or not it was work that first made me think about it, I used to have a high sugar intake at work and I could go from quiet to grumpy fer in seconds flat. So much so I was getting pulled up on it by my manager, then one of my colleagues was diganosed type 1 diabetic. Talking to him about his treatment (I have a strong medical interest (long story, but I'm a good person to have around if bloods been spilt)), he was describing the symptoms and hypos.
I took a week off and got to the medics, where I promptly had a hypo in his surgery! Then started the lifestyle and diet changes, and carrying a blood tester. Bugger me test strips can get expensive.
You have it much worse than me. My symptoms range from being a grumpy sSerioulsy chocolate seems to be my biggest enemy, I can almost garanttee a hypo after eating that stuff, but ccakes, cookies etc not a problem. I just need to, carefully I might add, meet sugar intake with energy used.
Its a bugger cos I have a right sweet tooth! Believe it or not it was work that first made me think about it, I used to have a high sugar intake at work and I could go from quiet to grumpy f
er in seconds flat. So much so I was getting pulled up on it by my manager, then one of my colleagues was diganosed type 1 diabetic. Talking to him about his treatment (I have a strong medical interest (long story, but I'm a good person to have around if bloods been spilt)), he was describing the symptoms and hypos.I took a week off and got to the medics, where I promptly had a hypo in his surgery! Then started the lifestyle and diet changes, and carrying a blood tester. Bugger me test strips can get expensive.
t to having a migraine.I was diagnosed as a kid so I've easily managed it over the years. Only started cycling a couple of years ago and it took a while to adjust for an endurance sport but like you say once you know what it is it's not a problem.
I've always considered it to be the "good diabetes". They (hyper) need insulin shots. We (hypo) need Mars Bars. Or not in your case!
Choc just seems to cause an over release of insulin in me. Just give me carbs, lucky I like pastries
Touch wood I havent had a hypo in 2 months now. The last one being when I ate brecky at 4:30 am for a 6 start at work which I don't usually do. That was full on shakes and nausea.
More exercise will see me in a much better position.
Touch wood I havent had a hypo in 2 months now. The last one being when I ate brecky at 4:30 am for a 6 start at work which I don't usually do. That was full on shakes and nausea.
More exercise will see me in a much better position.
Thanks people for all the replies, it's been an interesting read.
For the moment I shall continue with just orange squash with a few grains of salt and a muesli bar of some sort.
I have a good 10kgs+ in weight to lose at the moment - I will have to do some miles yet to be the weight I want to be. I only started again two months after a good few years year break and this saturday's ride at 33 miles was the point I thought i'd had enough - that was on several bits of toast and a decent meal the might before and a banana and a fruit bar during the ride.
I'm doing more interval training at the moment - most mornings is a 5am 12 mile ride enging in a set of intervals and it's not getting easier - but i'm definitely getting stronger and feel so much better for it.
Thanks again.
For the moment I shall continue with just orange squash with a few grains of salt and a muesli bar of some sort.
I have a good 10kgs+ in weight to lose at the moment - I will have to do some miles yet to be the weight I want to be. I only started again two months after a good few years year break and this saturday's ride at 33 miles was the point I thought i'd had enough - that was on several bits of toast and a decent meal the might before and a banana and a fruit bar during the ride.
I'm doing more interval training at the moment - most mornings is a 5am 12 mile ride enging in a set of intervals and it's not getting easier - but i'm definitely getting stronger and feel so much better for it.
Thanks again.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff