Considering getting a Power Meter
Discussion
I am thinking about buying a Stages Power Meter at the end of the month, but I know little about them and whether or not it would be a good use of cash for a hobbie cyclist that enjoys hills.
Does anyone have one?
Any recommendation of where to read up on how to get the most from a Power Meter.
Does anyone have one?
Any recommendation of where to read up on how to get the most from a Power Meter.
The DC Rainmaker blog is a fantastic resource for (extremely) detailed reviews on all currently available power meters- here's his take on the Stages: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/stages-power-me...
And here's his update to that review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-u...
Personally I would not get one simply because I tend to average 40% left leg and 60% right, and the Stages only "sees" the left leg power and doubles it for the total output.
And here's his update to that review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-u...
Personally I would not get one simply because I tend to average 40% left leg and 60% right, and the Stages only "sees" the left leg power and doubles it for the total output.
Dammit said:
The DC Rainmaker blog is a fantastic resource for (extremely) detailed reviews on all currently available power meters- here's his take on the Stages: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/stages-power-me...
And here's his update to that review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-u...
Personally I would not get one simply because I tend to average 40% left leg and 60% right, and the Stages only "sees" the left leg power and doubles it for the total output.
how can I find out if I have greater strength in one of my legs?And here's his update to that review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-u...
Personally I would not get one simply because I tend to average 40% left leg and 60% right, and the Stages only "sees" the left leg power and doubles it for the total output.
Yes, I've got one and can highly recommend it. I've checked the power figures against my Wahoo KICKR and they are pretty much identical. Really easy to swap between bikes (make sure you buy the very cheap crank pre-loading tool - around £1.50 on Wiggle for the Ultegra cranks). Means you're not linked to any particular wheel set.
If you have access to a Watt bike you can check how much your left vs right power is... but in the real world I suspect it won't make much difference. I've found using the bike on the turbo trainer (setting Watts on KICKR using ANT+ from computer) and then measuring Watts from stages has helped to develop a smoother pedal stroke for me. Handy that it also provides cadence information so that you can get rid of the cadence sensors on the bike too.
Make sure you set your Garmin to average without zeros - otherwise it will average your zero power and zero cadence values with the rest of the results.
Only issue is that the Stages has confirmed I'm crap! Must try harder
If you have access to a Watt bike you can check how much your left vs right power is... but in the real world I suspect it won't make much difference. I've found using the bike on the turbo trainer (setting Watts on KICKR using ANT+ from computer) and then measuring Watts from stages has helped to develop a smoother pedal stroke for me. Handy that it also provides cadence information so that you can get rid of the cadence sensors on the bike too.
Make sure you set your Garmin to average without zeros - otherwise it will average your zero power and zero cadence values with the rest of the results.
Only issue is that the Stages has confirmed I'm crap! Must try harder
Dammit said:
The DC Rainmaker blog is a fantastic resource for (extremely) detailed reviews on all currently available power meters- here's his take on the Stages: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/stages-power-me...
And here's his update to that review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-u...
Personally I would not get one simply because I tend to average 40% left leg and 60% right, and the Stages only "sees" the left leg power and doubles it for the total output.
Imbalance in itself isn't a problem since training with power is about consistency and improvement rather than the absolute number. If you know you're 40/60 you just scale the power accordingly if you really need to know your absolute power, for comparing with others for instance. And here's his update to that review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-u...
Personally I would not get one simply because I tend to average 40% left leg and 60% right, and the Stages only "sees" the left leg power and doubles it for the total output.
drgav2005 said:
Yes, I've got one and can highly recommend it. I've checked the power figures against my Wahoo KICKR and they are pretty much identical. Really easy to swap between bikes (make sure you buy the very cheap crank pre-loading tool - around £1.50 on Wiggle for the Ultegra cranks). Means you're not linked to any particular wheel set.
If you have access to a Watt bike you can check how much your left vs right power is... but in the real world I suspect it won't make much difference. I've found using the bike on the turbo trainer (setting Watts on KICKR using ANT+ from computer) and then measuring Watts from stages has helped to develop a smoother pedal stroke for me. Handy that it also provides cadence information so that you can get rid of the cadence sensors on the bike too.
Make sure you set your Garmin to average without zeros - otherwise it will average your zero power and zero cadence values with the rest of the results.
Only issue is that the Stages has confirmed I'm crap! Must try harder
There is absolutely no reason to set it to not include zeros. All this does is skews the normalised power for workouts and thus inflates your CTL beyond what it actually is. If you have access to a Watt bike you can check how much your left vs right power is... but in the real world I suspect it won't make much difference. I've found using the bike on the turbo trainer (setting Watts on KICKR using ANT+ from computer) and then measuring Watts from stages has helped to develop a smoother pedal stroke for me. Handy that it also provides cadence information so that you can get rid of the cadence sensors on the bike too.
Make sure you set your Garmin to average without zeros - otherwise it will average your zero power and zero cadence values with the rest of the results.
Only issue is that the Stages has confirmed I'm crap! Must try harder
Regards to powermeters in general. Buy whatever suits your situation, I'd recommend crank based so you can swap wheels without issue. Not totally sold on stages due to build quality mainly, they look cheaply made to me. But they work ok now it would seem.
As to getting the most from it, buy the book 'Training and racing with a powermeter' it's basically the bible of power. Very useful. And will give you a good idea as to why you should not set it to ignore zeros.
nammynake said:
Imbalance in itself isn't a problem since training with power is about consistency and improvement rather than the absolute number. If you know you're 40/60 you just scale the power accordingly if you really need to know your absolute power, for comparing with others for instance.
True, however I have a couple of other meters- one track Powertap and one Power2Max, so the Stages would read (albeit semi-consistently) at 80% of the figure that the other units report.Here's my L/R imbalance- http://tpks.ws/izPn
I think the earlier post was the wrong way round - it makes a lot of sense not to include zeros in cadence (because presumably you're interested in your pedalling cadence, not coasting), but you should set 1 sec recording AND include zeros AND auto pause off if you want to get useful output from a power meter, rather than just a pretty number.
Thought experiment: 1 min flat out, 5 min rest, 1 min flat out, vs 2 min flat out. Which do you think will give you the greatest power output for the final minute? If you autopause or exclude zeros, they are equivalent, and you're deluding yourself..
As for stages, personally I'm a sceptic. I'm running vectors, and my power balance from a ride is generally up to 5-6% out - that doesn't worry me, but it's not consistent in side or amount, so if I was using stages I'd be seeing a 10-12% variance in my power, depending on what appears to be a random factor. That's quite large, and to my mind makes it not terribly useful..
Thought experiment: 1 min flat out, 5 min rest, 1 min flat out, vs 2 min flat out. Which do you think will give you the greatest power output for the final minute? If you autopause or exclude zeros, they are equivalent, and you're deluding yourself..
As for stages, personally I'm a sceptic. I'm running vectors, and my power balance from a ride is generally up to 5-6% out - that doesn't worry me, but it's not consistent in side or amount, so if I was using stages I'd be seeing a 10-12% variance in my power, depending on what appears to be a random factor. That's quite large, and to my mind makes it not terribly useful..
Be careful with the assumption that l/r balance is constant - in my experience it isn't.
Most of my training rides, I have a fairly consistent l/r balance of 48/52. But then, big days in the mountains, it starts to vary as I get tired and move more towards 56/44. Then again, I've done road races where it's been all over the shop, left wards and right wards. One weekend my power balance on a training ride was massively skewed, almost 40/60 - my saddle was off-centre by a couple of mm.
All this suggests to me that doubling your left leg power to get your overall output is hugely prone to error and you cannot simply assume a fixed l/r ratio. On this basis, a PM that does this and costs £500-600 to me is a waste of money when PMs like Power2Max can be had for a couple of hundred more, and will do a proper job. Or a powertap wheel for the same price, or less.
I've heard people I ride with say "oh, but I just need a rough idea of how hard I'm pedalling, I'm not that concerned about accuracy" - well, you can get that from a HRM or just listening to your own breathing. Spend the £600 on a training camp in Majorca. The whole point of a PM is getting accurate numbers and training to them - getting hold of the book as recommended by okgo, reading it, and getting into the numbers.
On the zero averaging thing - disagree somewhat with okgo here. The setting only affects the readout that the Garmin gives you during the ride. The unit still records all the data points, zero or otherwise, for analysis afterwards in trainingpeaks etc, irrespective of whether zero averaging is on or off on the device. So as long as you are relying on TP or RaceDay or Strava for your power analysis you'll be fine.
In general I don't include zeroes, because doing so means that rides that involve significant segments through towns etc where you are forced to stop pedalling will unduly depress the average - in general you're interested in the power whilst you were pedalling, not the time you were held up at the lights. But as I say, if you're analysing the power after the fact in a software package, it doesn't matter either way.
Most of my training rides, I have a fairly consistent l/r balance of 48/52. But then, big days in the mountains, it starts to vary as I get tired and move more towards 56/44. Then again, I've done road races where it's been all over the shop, left wards and right wards. One weekend my power balance on a training ride was massively skewed, almost 40/60 - my saddle was off-centre by a couple of mm.
All this suggests to me that doubling your left leg power to get your overall output is hugely prone to error and you cannot simply assume a fixed l/r ratio. On this basis, a PM that does this and costs £500-600 to me is a waste of money when PMs like Power2Max can be had for a couple of hundred more, and will do a proper job. Or a powertap wheel for the same price, or less.
I've heard people I ride with say "oh, but I just need a rough idea of how hard I'm pedalling, I'm not that concerned about accuracy" - well, you can get that from a HRM or just listening to your own breathing. Spend the £600 on a training camp in Majorca. The whole point of a PM is getting accurate numbers and training to them - getting hold of the book as recommended by okgo, reading it, and getting into the numbers.
On the zero averaging thing - disagree somewhat with okgo here. The setting only affects the readout that the Garmin gives you during the ride. The unit still records all the data points, zero or otherwise, for analysis afterwards in trainingpeaks etc, irrespective of whether zero averaging is on or off on the device. So as long as you are relying on TP or RaceDay or Strava for your power analysis you'll be fine.
In general I don't include zeroes, because doing so means that rides that involve significant segments through towns etc where you are forced to stop pedalling will unduly depress the average - in general you're interested in the power whilst you were pedalling, not the time you were held up at the lights. But as I say, if you're analysing the power after the fact in a software package, it doesn't matter either way.
Thanks for the info - I have just had a look on the Power2Max site but I would need to replace the whole crank ergo they are out of my price range.... (£600 vs £1000). I agree that it is probably a better option and if an SRAM Force 20 version was available I would stretch the budget.
Check out Alex Simmons post down this page here on why non zero average should not be chosen in your settings.
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?show...
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?show...
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Thanks for the info - I have just had a look on the Power2Max site but I would need to replace the whole crank ergo they are out of my price range.... (£600 vs £1000). I agree that it is probably a better option and if an SRAM Force 20 version was available I would stretch the budget.
I've just spotted this thread and thought I'd mention that Power2Max have discounted their Classic Road power meters. They now start from 640 Euro which doesn't seem too bad.I've been debating whether or not to get one myself and can't really decide whether to go for it or just stick to using Trainerroad when I'm on the turbo.
Thought I would resurrect a thread rather than start a new one.
I have some money lying around (as you do) for some new shinny bits. Originally I was thinking of some deep section wheels (I mostly do Triathlons) but I thought they will probably sit on my wall for most of the year and only come out for three of four races and that I would probably get more benefit from a power meter. My coach uses a Wattbike for testing FTP and can then set a plan around that.
Problem is I have two bikes. My roadie and a TT and would like to use it on both (including on a turbo). I originally thought about the Stages 105, but a) that seems discontinued and b) my roadie is a s
te entry level number with Sora, so I would have to up grade the entire group set (I doubt a 105 crank would work with sora chain and cassette).
Given this thread is 2 years old was is the latest thinking? I have Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels on my roadie, I was thinking of getting a hub meter and having that wheel rebuilt. I can easily swap the wheel and cassette when I want to use the TT bike.
Any other ideas? Don't want to spending a fortune. Other thing to consider is I currently use a Garmin Forerunner 301 which doesn't support BT or ANT+ so would have to use Strava to start with I guess.
I have some money lying around (as you do) for some new shinny bits. Originally I was thinking of some deep section wheels (I mostly do Triathlons) but I thought they will probably sit on my wall for most of the year and only come out for three of four races and that I would probably get more benefit from a power meter. My coach uses a Wattbike for testing FTP and can then set a plan around that.
Problem is I have two bikes. My roadie and a TT and would like to use it on both (including on a turbo). I originally thought about the Stages 105, but a) that seems discontinued and b) my roadie is a s
te entry level number with Sora, so I would have to up grade the entire group set (I doubt a 105 crank would work with sora chain and cassette).Given this thread is 2 years old was is the latest thinking? I have Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels on my roadie, I was thinking of getting a hub meter and having that wheel rebuilt. I can easily swap the wheel and cassette when I want to use the TT bike.
Any other ideas? Don't want to spending a fortune. Other thing to consider is I currently use a Garmin Forerunner 301 which doesn't support BT or ANT+ so would have to use Strava to start with I guess.
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