Drivetrain degreasing ..a false economy?
Discussion
Whilst the advantages of properly cleaning your drivetrain are readily apparent, there are also many disadvantages. This leads me to wonder whether it’s really worth it rather than just regularly dry lubing (or occasionally wet lubing for torrential conditions) the chain and sacrificing it to hopefully extend the life of the rest of the drivetrain whilst saving a large amount of time in the process.
Having tried searching about this online, there’s surprisingly little on this debate. Maybe because Muck Off and all the other cleaning product companies don’t want you to know, or maybe because to most people the choice is obvious, but I’m not so sure and here’s why:
1. Unless your chain is easily removable, degreasing your chain invariably means the degreaser gets almost elsewhere, including around your bearings. Now whilst bearings are “sealed” and may have a good amount of resistance when new, once some wear has occurred the very thin degreaser can penetrate through and once in there, very quickly destroy the grease and massively reduces the life of the bearing. Jockey wheel bearings will be particularly prone to this as they only use a very basic labyrinth seal, easily negotiated by the degreaser and especially if rotated at any point whilst the degreaser is present.
2. As mentioned, chains are relatively cheap (£20-£30 for a decent-ish one) and it’s also easy to keep an eye on when to replace it before the wear and corresponding stretch starts to impact the more expensive sprockets. Whereas having to replace the rest of your drivetrain (which will comprise of hub bearings, jockey wheels, crank bearings & derailleurs since all having moving parts that have been exposed to degreaser) is going to be far less cost effective. Especially as it’s likely the whole lot will get replaced in one hit meaning some parts won’t even have fulfilled their shortened service life.
3. It’s very difficult to clean everywhere properly anyway given all the intricate surfaces that make up your chain and cassette. So you could argue that unless you completely strip down the whole lot to clean far more thoroughly, or spend many hours repeating degreasing/washing cycles, then mostly all your achieving is to mobilise the large collections of grit from any non-mechanically working areas (i.e. on the outside surfaces of chain links or inbetween cassette sprockets) back into the critical running areas which are critical to the service life.
4. It is difficult to wash off all the degreaser which means any residuals will be detrimental to any lubrication that is added once the drivetrain has been cleaned.
5. It takes a very long time for all the water to fully evaporate from the cleaned drivetrain so often they will get lubed before this has happened which ends up trapping moisture in the drivetrain which can no longer escape due to the layer of oil added over the top.
6. Then of course there’s the cost of all the cleaning products which certainly aren’t cheap. The cost of a new chain will only buy you a few bottles of degreaser and lube which won’t last long.
7. Time. It’s a very labour intensive process so if for example you use the bike to commute on, you can expect to find your chain needs cleaning at least every few weeks and pretty much every week in poor winter conditions.
It’d be great to be able to test out these two approaches but to do so in a controlled way would be a pretty time consuming and expensive experiment. If anyone’s read any articles on it or has decades of experience I’d be very interested to know your thoughts.
Having tried searching about this online, there’s surprisingly little on this debate. Maybe because Muck Off and all the other cleaning product companies don’t want you to know, or maybe because to most people the choice is obvious, but I’m not so sure and here’s why:
1. Unless your chain is easily removable, degreasing your chain invariably means the degreaser gets almost elsewhere, including around your bearings. Now whilst bearings are “sealed” and may have a good amount of resistance when new, once some wear has occurred the very thin degreaser can penetrate through and once in there, very quickly destroy the grease and massively reduces the life of the bearing. Jockey wheel bearings will be particularly prone to this as they only use a very basic labyrinth seal, easily negotiated by the degreaser and especially if rotated at any point whilst the degreaser is present.
2. As mentioned, chains are relatively cheap (£20-£30 for a decent-ish one) and it’s also easy to keep an eye on when to replace it before the wear and corresponding stretch starts to impact the more expensive sprockets. Whereas having to replace the rest of your drivetrain (which will comprise of hub bearings, jockey wheels, crank bearings & derailleurs since all having moving parts that have been exposed to degreaser) is going to be far less cost effective. Especially as it’s likely the whole lot will get replaced in one hit meaning some parts won’t even have fulfilled their shortened service life.
3. It’s very difficult to clean everywhere properly anyway given all the intricate surfaces that make up your chain and cassette. So you could argue that unless you completely strip down the whole lot to clean far more thoroughly, or spend many hours repeating degreasing/washing cycles, then mostly all your achieving is to mobilise the large collections of grit from any non-mechanically working areas (i.e. on the outside surfaces of chain links or inbetween cassette sprockets) back into the critical running areas which are critical to the service life.
4. It is difficult to wash off all the degreaser which means any residuals will be detrimental to any lubrication that is added once the drivetrain has been cleaned.
5. It takes a very long time for all the water to fully evaporate from the cleaned drivetrain so often they will get lubed before this has happened which ends up trapping moisture in the drivetrain which can no longer escape due to the layer of oil added over the top.
6. Then of course there’s the cost of all the cleaning products which certainly aren’t cheap. The cost of a new chain will only buy you a few bottles of degreaser and lube which won’t last long.
7. Time. It’s a very labour intensive process so if for example you use the bike to commute on, you can expect to find your chain needs cleaning at least every few weeks and pretty much every week in poor winter conditions.
It’d be great to be able to test out these two approaches but to do so in a controlled way would be a pretty time consuming and expensive experiment. If anyone’s read any articles on it or has decades of experience I’d be very interested to know your thoughts.
Use a Park Tool chain cleaner thing. Clamps over the chain and keeps the degreaser mainly on chain.
Then wash off and WD40 it all to save the water evaporating issue.
Use thin lube on the jockey wheels now and again and shouldnt be any probs. They are not exactly tight tolerance or under much stress anyway.
Then wash off and WD40 it all to save the water evaporating issue.
Use thin lube on the jockey wheels now and again and shouldnt be any probs. They are not exactly tight tolerance or under much stress anyway.
I use a chain cleaning thing that clamps on as well (mine is from Lidl though 
) on the road bike but on the fixed gear commuter, I have found the easiest method is to remove the chain, drop it in a 2.5l container with a few cm of chain cleaner in it, replace lid, give it a good shake, let it soak, remove, wipe, refit and lube. Job done. My commute is along the seafront so the combination of sand / salt / rain / crap means just reapplying lube isn't an option.
) on the road bike but on the fixed gear commuter, I have found the easiest method is to remove the chain, drop it in a 2.5l container with a few cm of chain cleaner in it, replace lid, give it a good shake, let it soak, remove, wipe, refit and lube. Job done. My commute is along the seafront so the combination of sand / salt / rain / crap means just reapplying lube isn't an option. I used to have one of those tools, but just found that without using gallons of degreaser (which defeats the object as it still gets everywhere), the whole thing just seems to equilibrate with the chain & turn into a gritty, oily mess.
I still wonder how the costs work out even on a removable chain. How long will a chain last if kept properly clean vs how long with just re-oiling. Factoring in the cost of degreaser it’s got to be a close run thing which means is it really worth the time and effort?
Has anyone run chains using either method in similar environments? And if so what sort of mileage did you get out of each chain?
I still wonder how the costs work out even on a removable chain. How long will a chain last if kept properly clean vs how long with just re-oiling. Factoring in the cost of degreaser it’s got to be a close run thing which means is it really worth the time and effort?
Has anyone run chains using either method in similar environments? And if so what sort of mileage did you get out of each chain?
Edited by VeeFource on Friday 17th April 14:32
My routine:
1. Bike upside down
2. Run the chain through some industrial hand wipes that remove grease/grime
3. run chain through rag to remove excces
4. run chain through a rag sprayed with spray oil/wd40 etc
5.Run chain through dry rag
6. drip proper bike lube on every link & wipe off excess
Do it every fortnight /120 miles during dry weather or every long ride in bad weather
The above is for my road bikes, my commuter I just whack lube on once a week and do the above once a month ish
1. Bike upside down
2. Run the chain through some industrial hand wipes that remove grease/grime
3. run chain through rag to remove excces
4. run chain through a rag sprayed with spray oil/wd40 etc
5.Run chain through dry rag
6. drip proper bike lube on every link & wipe off excess
Do it every fortnight /120 miles during dry weather or every long ride in bad weather
The above is for my road bikes, my commuter I just whack lube on once a week and do the above once a month ish
I have left the chain on my commuter uncleaned for probably about a month once through winter and it just got so caked in built up think black sludge which transferred to the cassette that I had no choice but to clean it!
I only replace chains when they start to stretch and I dont think that has much to do with how often you clean them.
I only replace chains when they start to stretch and I dont think that has much to do with how often you clean them.
thiscocks said:
I have left the chain on my commuter uncleaned for probably about a month once through winter and it just got so caked in built up think black sludge which transferred to the cassette that I had no choice but to clean it!
I wondered if just oiling it would be ok due to my motorcycle having a Scott Oiler which is basically just a constant drip feed of oil on the chain. It seems to stay well lubricated and fairly muck free without any maintenance whatsoever (other than checking the tension of the chain for stretch). Would have thought regular oiling of a push bike chain would be the equivalent but maybe not?KMC replaceable master link / missing link / whatever, pair of dedicated pliers (about 8 quid). Take it off to clean. Far more effective.
Not sure about impact on wear, but a properly clean / lubed chain runs with less drag, better shifting and less annoying noise, which is more important in my book
Not sure about impact on wear, but a properly clean / lubed chain runs with less drag, better shifting and less annoying noise, which is more important in my book
VeeFource said:
I used to have one of those tools, but just found that without using gallons of degreaser (which defeats the object as it still gets everywhere), the whole thing just seems to equilibrate with the chain & turn into a gritty, oily mess.
I still wonder how the costs work out even on a removable chain. How long will a chain last if kept properly clean vs how long with just re-oiling. Factoring in the cost of degreaser it’s got to be a close run thing which means is it really worth the time and effort?
Has anyone run chains using either method in similar environments? And if so what sort of mileage did you get out of each chain?
Use it more often and it's a good solution (chemistry pun intended I still wonder how the costs work out even on a removable chain. How long will a chain last if kept properly clean vs how long with just re-oiling. Factoring in the cost of degreaser it’s got to be a close run thing which means is it really worth the time and effort?
Has anyone run chains using either method in similar environments? And if so what sort of mileage did you get out of each chain?
Edited by VeeFource on Friday 17th April 14:32
)on a really mucky chain you need to keep refreshing the resevoir, but used often one hit does the job. I use it on my road bikes but not my mtb's for this very reason; it's easier to let the mtb chains get properly filthy and then soak them imo.
VeeFource said:
thiscocks said:
I have left the chain on my commuter uncleaned for probably about a month once through winter and it just got so caked in built up think black sludge which transferred to the cassette that I had no choice but to clean it!
I wondered if just oiling it would be ok due to my motorcycle having a Scott Oiler which is basically just a constant drip feed of oil on the chain. It seems to stay well lubricated and fairly muck free without any maintenance whatsoever (other than checking the tension of the chain for stretch). Would have thought regular oiling of a push bike chain would be the equivalent but maybe not?I'm not sure how much diffrence it makes to chain life, but it's a hell of a lot less messy to re-fit a clean chain. Personally I like to keep mine clean as sand and oil make quite a good grinding past and it's not that messy. I used 1/4 of a bottle of degreaser last time, at £5 a time it's not that expensive. I guess it also depends on what your chain is. If you have a £10 chain it is rather different to a £60 chain.
I used to use a 'Chain Doc' aerosol cleaning bath thing that clamped around the chain, but it was so heavily used, and kicked around the garage between uses, that it broke.
Now, my preferred method is to pour a drop of de-greaser into a small mustard jar, and use an old toothbrush to apply it on the bottom run of chain, well away from the bearings, etc. Then I rinse it through with a gentle spray from a short length of garden hose. Sometimes it takes two attempts to get it properly clean, but by 'wiggling' the chain, and listening to it, you can tell when it's clear of grit etc. Then let it drip dry for a while, and re-lube. Deep cleaning can also be done with an ice-cream tub, with the chain removed and laid in degreaser, lid on and shake. It can be left for a couple of hours to emulsify all the oil and grease, before rinsing, re-assembling and applying chain lube.
All the off road trails locally are quite sandy woodland and heaths, so not cleaning chains causes them to wear out at a fearful rate. Road bikes are not too bad, by comparison.
Now, my preferred method is to pour a drop of de-greaser into a small mustard jar, and use an old toothbrush to apply it on the bottom run of chain, well away from the bearings, etc. Then I rinse it through with a gentle spray from a short length of garden hose. Sometimes it takes two attempts to get it properly clean, but by 'wiggling' the chain, and listening to it, you can tell when it's clear of grit etc. Then let it drip dry for a while, and re-lube. Deep cleaning can also be done with an ice-cream tub, with the chain removed and laid in degreaser, lid on and shake. It can be left for a couple of hours to emulsify all the oil and grease, before rinsing, re-assembling and applying chain lube.
All the off road trails locally are quite sandy woodland and heaths, so not cleaning chains causes them to wear out at a fearful rate. Road bikes are not too bad, by comparison.
I've got a plastic soup pot with a lid and some gun wash. Undo quick link, chuck chain in pot, replace lid and shake, shake, shake. Allow to stand for a few hours, then repeat.
Hang chain up to drip dry, wipe with rag, then allow to dry fully.
Refit to bike and slowly lube with TF2 wet lube. Allow 24 hours for capillary action to do it's bit.
Ride one of my other bikes in the meantime...
Hang chain up to drip dry, wipe with rag, then allow to dry fully.
Refit to bike and slowly lube with TF2 wet lube. Allow 24 hours for capillary action to do it's bit.
Ride one of my other bikes in the meantime...
I couldn't live with the chain noise of the not degreasing method when I'm commuting regularly I do the clamp on chain degreaser tool thing and lube as soon as the chain noise becomes noticeable, I've not done my mtb yet it lives at my parents house as I ride with my brothers so we stop at a garage and jetwash the bikes (being carefull of bearings) on the way home and then when I come to use it again my brother has cleaned and dry lubed the chain :-) once I have my garage built I'll get a work stand and switch to the removing chain method I think is there any issue with repeatedly splitting standard chains with a chain tool?
I've got a chain cleaner thingy too. One thing that makes quite a difference is getting one with a sponge as the last thing the chain goes through, as this stops excess degreaser being pulled round the chain run.
Every now and again though, I'll just decide to do all the chains in the family (8 in total), at which point I take them all off the bikes (they're all on reusable chain links), put them all in cheap plastic Chinese takeaway pots - taking care to write on the lid which chain is for which bike! - and then cover them in unleaded, give them a bit of a shake and leave them overnight. Far cheaper than any specific degreaser, and does a cracking job.
I have been tempted to "dry" them afterwards by hanging them on an old coat hanger in the garden and holding a match to the bottom, but I'm not sure if this would damage the actual chains? If it wouldn't, it would seem like one way to clear off any remaining stubborn deposits!
Every now and again though, I'll just decide to do all the chains in the family (8 in total), at which point I take them all off the bikes (they're all on reusable chain links), put them all in cheap plastic Chinese takeaway pots - taking care to write on the lid which chain is for which bike! - and then cover them in unleaded, give them a bit of a shake and leave them overnight. Far cheaper than any specific degreaser, and does a cracking job.
I have been tempted to "dry" them afterwards by hanging them on an old coat hanger in the garden and holding a match to the bottom, but I'm not sure if this would damage the actual chains? If it wouldn't, it would seem like one way to clear off any remaining stubborn deposits!
I like diesel & an old towel. This method is highly recommended for those who are perfectionists! :
http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
julianm said:
This method is highly recommended for those who are perfectionists! :
http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
I have found that method a tad time consuming - I now use dental floss around each individual link, thus preserving saddle time. http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
gazza285 said:
I've got a plastic soup pot with a lid and some gun wash. Undo quick link, chuck chain in pot, replace lid and shake, shake, shake. Allow to stand for a few hours, then repeat.
Hang chain up to drip dry, wipe with rag, then allow to dry fully.
Refit to bike and slowly lube with TF2 wet lube. Allow 24 hours for capillary action to do it's bit.
Ride one of my other bikes in the meantime...
Pretty much this. Get some power link pliers to make it even easier. Hang chain up to drip dry, wipe with rag, then allow to dry fully.
Refit to bike and slowly lube with TF2 wet lube. Allow 24 hours for capillary action to do it's bit.
Ride one of my other bikes in the meantime...
A good amount of that dirtiness is grit that will be wearing away at things even if you keep chucking more lube on. Plus cleaner and quieter is just nicer.
Removing a cassette is a 2 min job too and can just soak in degreaser, quick scrub and rinse and it's like new again.
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