What Road Bike Wheels?
Discussion
Hi guys,
I'm looking at my first serious updgrade for my 2014 Boardman team Carbon and wheels seem the most logical place to start. However, I'm finding the choice quite overwhelming!
Essentially, I'm looking for real world gains, but I'm not sure if its worth spending £600 on a set of new wheels or £300.
I'm a Sportive rider, anything up to 100 miles and I would look to average around 17-18mph (although less over longer distances). I'm also an all year round cyclist so I need something that would be happy to ride through country roads throughout winter, the current free hub on my Boardman has already been serviced once after it failed and the bike was only seven months old! Apparently winter cycling filled it up with gunk and it was rusty!
I've had lots of recommendations from lots of different people, but I'm still not sure what to go for.
I like the look of carbon wheels, however I understand there isn't any weight saving at this end of the market, although they will be stiffer and perhaps more aerodynamic.
Planet X wheels get a good write up and it would be good to have carbon wheels to go with the carbon frame... http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPPX52CCL/planet-x-52...
I've also been recommended Campagnolo Bullet 50's by a couple of people. Wiggle sell them for £609, but these are at the very top end of my budget and don't allow for tyres, etc. Although they are a very good looking set of wheels. Will I see a marked improvement in terms of performance in these wheels over say a set of Fulcum Racing 3's which are much cheaper?
I'm really not sure if my abilities as a cyclist justify the top end of my budget, so any advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks guys.
I'm looking at my first serious updgrade for my 2014 Boardman team Carbon and wheels seem the most logical place to start. However, I'm finding the choice quite overwhelming!
Essentially, I'm looking for real world gains, but I'm not sure if its worth spending £600 on a set of new wheels or £300.
I'm a Sportive rider, anything up to 100 miles and I would look to average around 17-18mph (although less over longer distances). I'm also an all year round cyclist so I need something that would be happy to ride through country roads throughout winter, the current free hub on my Boardman has already been serviced once after it failed and the bike was only seven months old! Apparently winter cycling filled it up with gunk and it was rusty!
I've had lots of recommendations from lots of different people, but I'm still not sure what to go for.
I like the look of carbon wheels, however I understand there isn't any weight saving at this end of the market, although they will be stiffer and perhaps more aerodynamic.
Planet X wheels get a good write up and it would be good to have carbon wheels to go with the carbon frame... http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPPX52CCL/planet-x-52...
I've also been recommended Campagnolo Bullet 50's by a couple of people. Wiggle sell them for £609, but these are at the very top end of my budget and don't allow for tyres, etc. Although they are a very good looking set of wheels. Will I see a marked improvement in terms of performance in these wheels over say a set of Fulcum Racing 3's which are much cheaper?
I'm really not sure if my abilities as a cyclist justify the top end of my budget, so any advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks guys.
There are loads of previous "what wheelset threads" if you have a look.
If you are "only" averaging 18mph, I'd look at shallow alu rims AIUI there is little to be gained from the aero wheelsets at that speed and you have a weight penalty. For £300 Racing 3s are good value for money and quite light, you could also go for something like the Ultegra wheelset or the American Classic Victory 30. Campag Zondas for £250 from wiggle are good wheels, I use mine all year round. I'd spend £300 and stick the rest towards a new bike in a year or so. The Team Carbon isnt bad but spending £600 on wheels for it against saving £300 for a new bike wouldnt be my choice.
If you are "only" averaging 18mph, I'd look at shallow alu rims AIUI there is little to be gained from the aero wheelsets at that speed and you have a weight penalty. For £300 Racing 3s are good value for money and quite light, you could also go for something like the Ultegra wheelset or the American Classic Victory 30. Campag Zondas for £250 from wiggle are good wheels, I use mine all year round. I'd spend £300 and stick the rest towards a new bike in a year or so. The Team Carbon isnt bad but spending £600 on wheels for it against saving £300 for a new bike wouldnt be my choice.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th July 14:37
In all honesty you won't see a night and day difference in performance from different wheels. A lot of the time it's the lure of the shiny that means people want to upgrade. In my experience though, a lower spoke count, and aero spokes, are somewhat advantageous compared to traditional 32 hole laced wheels.
My advice would be to buy a good quality wheelset that looks good on your bike
You can hardly go wrong with most of the options out there. If you think you might ever want to use road tubeless tyres in future, you could look for a wheelset that has good tubeless compatibility.
I've got a set of Fulcrum R3s that I've had for 9 years, they've been on my winter bike for the last 3, and seem to be standing up well to that use. I've now got Campag Eurus 2-way fit on my summer bike, and they've also rolled well and been bulletproof.
If you ride on roads where you're less likely to get punctures from flints etc, a really good pair of supple tyres will make the biggest difference to feel, so budget for that too.
My advice would be to buy a good quality wheelset that looks good on your bike
You can hardly go wrong with most of the options out there. If you think you might ever want to use road tubeless tyres in future, you could look for a wheelset that has good tubeless compatibility. I've got a set of Fulcrum R3s that I've had for 9 years, they've been on my winter bike for the last 3, and seem to be standing up well to that use. I've now got Campag Eurus 2-way fit on my summer bike, and they've also rolled well and been bulletproof.
If you ride on roads where you're less likely to get punctures from flints etc, a really good pair of supple tyres will make the biggest difference to feel, so budget for that too.
agree with the above, i saved a few hundred grams on a set of new handbuilt wheels. they are really nice, wider rim (not to confuse with deeper) so can run lower pressure, and look great on my bike. did i notice a real world difference? not a jot. i'd only spend on wheels for a specific discipline, tt or racing. out on the road, fast club rides, sportive, i don't think much will change.
if you want to buy something nice thats different, and the best advice i can give, is buy the noes that look best. there aren't many terrible wheelsets out there above £150 in my opinion, so buy with your heart.
if you want to buy something nice thats different, and the best advice i can give, is buy the noes that look best. there aren't many terrible wheelsets out there above £150 in my opinion, so buy with your heart.
Thanks guys, some really good advice so far. And the more I think about it, spending 60% of the purchase price of the bike on one component doesn't really add up.
So, looking at the options put forward, Campag Zonda's look very pleasing to the eye and to my wallet. Also the Cero AR30's look a solid choice too so maybe a toss up between the two unless I've missed any others?
Tyres are also very important. Although I'm as concerned about punctures as I am performance. I've only ever used Continental tyres before. I like the look of the GP4000. However are there other brands that would offer something better?
So, looking at the options put forward, Campag Zonda's look very pleasing to the eye and to my wallet. Also the Cero AR30's look a solid choice too so maybe a toss up between the two unless I've missed any others?
Tyres are also very important. Although I'm as concerned about punctures as I am performance. I've only ever used Continental tyres before. I like the look of the GP4000. However are there other brands that would offer something better?
No, you're right on the money as far as tyres are concerned. Comtinental GP4000s are probably the best clincher tyres out there. 25mm seems to offer noticeable comfort and RR gains. Latex tubes will also reduce RR.
I would be looking at the Planet X CT45 carbon clinchers with the alloy brake track, £499 and about the most bang for your buck. The trend is towards wider rims these days and these have that and a toroidal shape.
Disregard the previous post about aero equipment not being relevent for the 17/18 mph rider, that's utter tosh and has been disproved time and time again. Aero and rolling resistance are what you should be looking for to acheive gains.
http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and...
Also, look beyond the ludicrous reviews about 'x' brand wheel 'spinning up faster' or 'climbing better', there's no way one can perceive this minimal differences and it's just received wisdom bull excrement.
I would be looking at the Planet X CT45 carbon clinchers with the alloy brake track, £499 and about the most bang for your buck. The trend is towards wider rims these days and these have that and a toroidal shape.
Disregard the previous post about aero equipment not being relevent for the 17/18 mph rider, that's utter tosh and has been disproved time and time again. Aero and rolling resistance are what you should be looking for to acheive gains.
http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and...
Also, look beyond the ludicrous reviews about 'x' brand wheel 'spinning up faster' or 'climbing better', there's no way one can perceive this minimal differences and it's just received wisdom bull excrement.
Edited by Barchettaman on Thursday 9th July 07:35
Campag Zondas are pretty much the go-to wheelset for someone upgrading from the wheels that came with the bike. They have excellent hubs, aren't too heavy, and reasonable aero profile and are bombproof. The only downside to them is that they last so damned long you may not be upgrading again for a while.
Personally I'd avoid carbon clinchers with an alu brake brake, as they are usually boat anchors. And with a carbon brake track you won't want to get caught on them in the wet. If you go for a new wider wheel, make sure your brake callipers can accommodate them. Or be prepared to take a bread knife to your pads.
And ane fule kno’ that Michelin Pro4 Race are the best clinchers you can get...
Personally I'd avoid carbon clinchers with an alu brake brake, as they are usually boat anchors. And with a carbon brake track you won't want to get caught on them in the wet. If you go for a new wider wheel, make sure your brake callipers can accommodate them. Or be prepared to take a bread knife to your pads.
And ane fule kno’ that Michelin Pro4 Race are the best clinchers you can get...
I would agree that using a carbon brake track in a wet climate is a daft thing to do. I wonder if, say, that nasty crash yesterday at the TdF would have been avoided or at least less severe had the peleton been able to brake properly. The Europcar guy at the back just jumped off, he made no attempt to brake as far as I could see, and trusted his arse to bring him to a stop rather than his brakes. Very odd. Anyway....
Greg, the difference between a light wheelset and, say, the PX clinchers I mentioned above is in the order of 375 grams. With tyres, tubes and skewers we're looking at 2.6kg vs. 2.225kg, give or take a few grams. Hardly a boat anchor.
Consider an 80kg rider with an 8kg bike, carrying 2 bottle and a flat kit, wearing clothes, shoes and a helmet, those 375 grams would make up 0.4% of the total system weight.
Wheelset weights are almost never considered inclusive of tyres, tubes and skewers - really frustrating!
Now, have a quick look at this article and have a think about whether this minor weight penalty is offset by the aero benefit:
http://biketechreview.com/reviews/wheels/63-wheel-...
Greg, the difference between a light wheelset and, say, the PX clinchers I mentioned above is in the order of 375 grams. With tyres, tubes and skewers we're looking at 2.6kg vs. 2.225kg, give or take a few grams. Hardly a boat anchor.
Consider an 80kg rider with an 8kg bike, carrying 2 bottle and a flat kit, wearing clothes, shoes and a helmet, those 375 grams would make up 0.4% of the total system weight.
Wheelset weights are almost never considered inclusive of tyres, tubes and skewers - really frustrating!
Now, have a quick look at this article and have a think about whether this minor weight penalty is offset by the aero benefit:
http://biketechreview.com/reviews/wheels/63-wheel-...
Edited by Barchettaman on Thursday 9th July 09:10
Edited by Barchettaman on Thursday 9th July 09:13
Barchettaman said:
Disregard the previous post about aero equipment not being relevent for the 17/18 mph rider, that's utter tosh and has been disproved time and time again. Aero and rolling resistance are what you should be looking for to acheive gains.
http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and...
Also, look beyond the ludicrous reviews about 'x' brand wheel 'spinning up faster' or 'climbing better', there's no way one can perceive this minimal differences and it's just received wisdom bull excrement.
Look, even as a self confessed Cervelo fan boy, using an aero bike manufacturer to prove that aero is faster is hardly impartial. They claim those gains are the result of a full aero package too, frame, wheelset and helmet rather than just wheels and it also fails to take into account road surface, traffic infrastructure, side winds etc etc. I can only speak from experience but I am just as fast on my Zondas as I am on my 50mm clinchers and the Zondas are far comfier because the ride isnt as harsh.http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and...
Also, look beyond the ludicrous reviews about 'x' brand wheel 'spinning up faster' or 'climbing better', there's no way one can perceive this minimal differences and it's just received wisdom bull excrement.
Increased fitness is what we should all be looking for to make gains but as we know, thats requires hard work and buying shiny things is easier...
Pablo, I quite agree that increasing fitness is the best way to increase speed.
I also can imagine that you wouldn't be able to perceive any speed difference between your two wheelsets.
I just like to challenge received wisdom, particularly when it comes to wheelsets, about which so much tosh is written, much of it by supposedly professional cycling journalists.
Having said that, this site isn't much better. There was an article on the front page yesterday where Matt Bird freely admitted that he hadn't actually ever driven the car he was waxing lyrically about, FFS.
I also can imagine that you wouldn't be able to perceive any speed difference between your two wheelsets.
I just like to challenge received wisdom, particularly when it comes to wheelsets, about which so much tosh is written, much of it by supposedly professional cycling journalists.
Having said that, this site isn't much better. There was an article on the front page yesterday where Matt Bird freely admitted that he hadn't actually ever driven the car he was waxing lyrically about, FFS.
Barchettaman said:
Pablo, I quite agree that increasing fitness is the best way to increase speed.
I'm not sure that is right. The best way to increase speed is through aerodynamics of the whole package - the point that was made in the cervelo article. Hence why TT/Tri bikes are faster than, well, pretty much everything else given the same engine. Also have a look at Cav head on in a sprint. He is *tiny* compared to the riders around him, and punching a much smaller hole in the air. Anecdotally, if I come off the aeros and sit up on my Tri bike at speed it is like someone has opened a parachute behind him - really very noticeable indeed. Strength and fitness will increase burst speed and the ability to sustain speed, but the "best" (whatever that really means - easiest? most efficient means? I don't know) way to increase speed is pptimising the aeros of the overall package.
Back to the carbon clinchers + alu brakes: they are almost always a heavy wheelset. They may well be more aero than a mid aero rim (such as a Zonda) or it may be a toss up (depending, eg, on spoke profile, spoke count, rim profile and so on; some deep rims are notoriously un-aero. Lightweights spring to mind, and even pre 2015 Boras are not that aero). A heavier rim takes more grunt to accelerate but conversely can work for you once spun up (cf a heavy flywheel). So the carbon clincher/alu brake track might have some advantages and some disadvantages over a mid aero pure alu rim. Whether on balance it works on the OP's favour depends quite a bit on the type of riding he is planning.
pablo said:
I can only speak from experience but I am just as fast on my Zondas as I am on my 50mm clinchers and the Zondas are far comfier because the ride isnt as harsh.
I'm not looking to pick an argument, but when you say that, are you running both wheelsets with the same tyres, at the same pressures, on the same frame and on the same roads? I am in the camp that says wheel upgrades do have more of an effect than almost any other component upgrade.
But it all comes down to ££ of course.
If you compare Fulcrum 3s to Campag Bullet - with the same tyres - I would defy anyone to tell the difference. If you compare Fulcrum 3s to Campag Bora Ultra 35s - with the same tyres - I would defy anyone **not** to tell the difference. But you are talking about a £2k price gap between the wheelsets. Is it worth the money? If it is the difference between winning and not winning, then maybe. For riders like myself and OP (who, in all honesty, would most sensibly keep the money in our pocket and train a bit harder to make the biggest difference in the shortest time) it is hard to justify, but "man cyclist maths" can sometimes make it work.
Based on your OP: I wouldn't go for carbon wheels for winter use. If you are going to ride the same bike winter and summer, a set of winter wheels (with appropriate tyres) to go with your summer wheels would be a wise investment imo.
There are plenty of fast and responsive tyres out there now at reasonable money. It is hard to disagree with the recommendation previously of the Vittoria Open Corsa CX, which is splendid - I prefer the 23c. The Michelin Pro 4 (especially in Service Course format) is brilliant too. For winter, Conti Gator Skins are popular for a reason!
Ultimately though, it is your money and there are worse ways to spend it than on bike bits. Buy the bit that satisfies you most - be it a shiny carbon bottle cage, electric gears, swish wheels or poser sunglasses. Whatever makes your cycling more pleasurable for you is the right call.
But it all comes down to ££ of course.
If you compare Fulcrum 3s to Campag Bullet - with the same tyres - I would defy anyone to tell the difference. If you compare Fulcrum 3s to Campag Bora Ultra 35s - with the same tyres - I would defy anyone **not** to tell the difference. But you are talking about a £2k price gap between the wheelsets. Is it worth the money? If it is the difference between winning and not winning, then maybe. For riders like myself and OP (who, in all honesty, would most sensibly keep the money in our pocket and train a bit harder to make the biggest difference in the shortest time) it is hard to justify, but "man cyclist maths" can sometimes make it work.
Based on your OP: I wouldn't go for carbon wheels for winter use. If you are going to ride the same bike winter and summer, a set of winter wheels (with appropriate tyres) to go with your summer wheels would be a wise investment imo.
There are plenty of fast and responsive tyres out there now at reasonable money. It is hard to disagree with the recommendation previously of the Vittoria Open Corsa CX, which is splendid - I prefer the 23c. The Michelin Pro 4 (especially in Service Course format) is brilliant too. For winter, Conti Gator Skins are popular for a reason!
Ultimately though, it is your money and there are worse ways to spend it than on bike bits. Buy the bit that satisfies you most - be it a shiny carbon bottle cage, electric gears, swish wheels or poser sunglasses. Whatever makes your cycling more pleasurable for you is the right call.
Greg66 said:
pablo said:
I can only speak from experience but I am just as fast on my Zondas as I am on my 50mm clinchers and the Zondas are far comfier because the ride isnt as harsh.
I'm not looking to pick an argument, but when you say that, are you running both wheelsets with the same tyres, at the same pressures, on the same frame and on the same roads? Apologies for hi-jacking this thread, but I'm looking to upgrade the standard Giant wheels on my Defy Advanced SL1.
I'm looking for a stiff wheel that wont flex when climbing and rolls well, but I don't wont to end up with a bone jarring ride.
So far based on the recommendations here I'm considering Cero AR30, Zonda's, Pacenti SL25/CK and Planet X CT45. I will be using 25c tyres.
Which ones should I go for and will any of them be an improvement over the standard Giant wheels?
TIA
I'm looking for a stiff wheel that wont flex when climbing and rolls well, but I don't wont to end up with a bone jarring ride.
So far based on the recommendations here I'm considering Cero AR30, Zonda's, Pacenti SL25/CK and Planet X CT45. I will be using 25c tyres.
Which ones should I go for and will any of them be an improvement over the standard Giant wheels?
TIA
Edited by Ballistic on Friday 10th July 10:13
Ballistic said:
Apologies for hi-jacking this thread, but I'm looking to upgrade the standard Giant wheels on my Defy Advanced SL1.
I'm looking for a stiff wheel that wont flex when climbing and rolls well, but I Don't wont to end up with a bone jarring ride.
So far based on the recommendations here I'm considering Cero AR30, Zonda's, Pacenti SL25/CK and Planet X CT45.
Which ones should I go for and will any of them be an improvement over the standard Giant wheels?
TIA
Similar money, couple of other manufacturers:I'm looking for a stiff wheel that wont flex when climbing and rolls well, but I Don't wont to end up with a bone jarring ride.
So far based on the recommendations here I'm considering Cero AR30, Zonda's, Pacenti SL25/CK and Planet X CT45.
Which ones should I go for and will any of them be an improvement over the standard Giant wheels?
TIA
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