Discussion
Today the OH and I stopped in at Antur Stiniog DH centre following a blast at Coed y Brenin. We are seriously considering giving DH a go and will more than likely hire bikes from Antur Stiniog to start with. Knowing what we are both like I can see us getting into DH in a big way. Are there any phers that are into DH? Where do you go for your bikes? After a lot of looking online it seems that few of the main dealers stock or even sell DH bikes.
Following a bit of reading we are looking at the Canyon Sender/DHX, YT Tues, Nukeproof Pulse.
Any info/opinions on the above much appreciated.
Following a bit of reading we are looking at the Canyon Sender/DHX, YT Tues, Nukeproof Pulse.
Any info/opinions on the above much appreciated.
What's your mountain bike background like and what bikes have you got at the moment? I'm a bit of an exception in that I started downhilling first and discovered other genres of mountain biking as a result, I only started riding XC to try and improve my fitness for downhill races when I was younger. Most people I imagine would be transferring the other way.
If you've already got a fleet of mountain bikes for different disciplines and are looking to add a big rig for full on downhill tracks to the stable then I'd heartily recommend going for one. However your post reads a bit like you're looking to get into mountain biking from little experience and it's the downhill side which interests you, which is also great but I think requires a slightly different bike choice. A full on downhill bike can't be ridden uphill, they're totally gravity orientated, focused on big hits and rough stuff and are uncompromising, so as a sole bike choice getting one doesn't make much sense as you're really limiting yourself on the style of riding you'll be able to do.
Bike technology has improved so much in the fifteen years or so that I've been in the sport, that a modern 'enduro' (to use the marketing slang) bike will be equal if not better than a full on downhill bike was back in the early 00s, and would be a good choice to give you a huge range of options. 150-170mm of travel front and rear, with slack angles and a long wheelbase that aid descending but not so heavy or compromised as to be impossible to winch back to the top of the hill for another run. I don't know what your budget is but realistically you're probably looking at between £500 - 750 to get a decent DH bike ready to use. I'm sure they're out there cheaper but you'd be straying into the realms of a few years old and bike geometry, wheelbase, angles and reach have all changed dramatically for the better recently so I'd want to avoid getting anything older than 5-6 years old personally. To me £750 would be a lot of money to have tied up in a DH bike which could potentially only end up coming out once a month for the odd uplift day, whereas £1500 on an enduro bike which will still be more than capable of handling downhill tracks and trail centres etc is justifiable.
If you've already got a fleet of mountain bikes for different disciplines and are looking to add a big rig for full on downhill tracks to the stable then I'd heartily recommend going for one. However your post reads a bit like you're looking to get into mountain biking from little experience and it's the downhill side which interests you, which is also great but I think requires a slightly different bike choice. A full on downhill bike can't be ridden uphill, they're totally gravity orientated, focused on big hits and rough stuff and are uncompromising, so as a sole bike choice getting one doesn't make much sense as you're really limiting yourself on the style of riding you'll be able to do.
Bike technology has improved so much in the fifteen years or so that I've been in the sport, that a modern 'enduro' (to use the marketing slang) bike will be equal if not better than a full on downhill bike was back in the early 00s, and would be a good choice to give you a huge range of options. 150-170mm of travel front and rear, with slack angles and a long wheelbase that aid descending but not so heavy or compromised as to be impossible to winch back to the top of the hill for another run. I don't know what your budget is but realistically you're probably looking at between £500 - 750 to get a decent DH bike ready to use. I'm sure they're out there cheaper but you'd be straying into the realms of a few years old and bike geometry, wheelbase, angles and reach have all changed dramatically for the better recently so I'd want to avoid getting anything older than 5-6 years old personally. To me £750 would be a lot of money to have tied up in a DH bike which could potentially only end up coming out once a month for the odd uplift day, whereas £1500 on an enduro bike which will still be more than capable of handling downhill tracks and trail centres etc is justifiable.
Just noticed you said you'd already been round CYB which implies you had your own bikes, I was under the impression you'd just hired them from Antur and got hooked! So if you are looking to get a full on DH bike to compliment a trail bike you've already got then you can't go wrong with any of your suggestions. Personally I'd steer away from carbon frames if buying second hand, damage is a lot harder to spot than on an alloy one if you don't know the history, I'd chance it on a road bike but something that has been designed to launch down a mountain is a bit risker in my eyes.
You don't say if you're looking at new or second hand, but as you're obviously considering direct sales companies take a look at Radon's offerings. I quite the look of their new Swoop: http://www.radon-bikes.de/en/bikes-2016/mountainbi... Though the YT Tues is a few hundred euro cheaper it only comes in a gopping green colour scheme or all stealth black, which also isn't my thing. Plus I'd rather chance the Magura brakes and other finishing kit on the Radon rather than the Sram guide brakes on the YT which don't have a good rep.
You don't say if you're looking at new or second hand, but as you're obviously considering direct sales companies take a look at Radon's offerings. I quite the look of their new Swoop: http://www.radon-bikes.de/en/bikes-2016/mountainbi... Though the YT Tues is a few hundred euro cheaper it only comes in a gopping green colour scheme or all stealth black, which also isn't my thing. Plus I'd rather chance the Magura brakes and other finishing kit on the Radon rather than the Sram guide brakes on the YT which don't have a good rep.
I ride a YT Tues which is a great bike.
DH bikes are awesome IF you are confident enough to ride them at the appropriate pace for them to work properly - they only really work is you are really attacking the trail - at lower speeds they are unwieldy and not that rewarding to ride.
I see lots of folks at places like Antur, Revolution, etc who are creeping down he mountain in a big DH rig and they would be far better off on a 160-170mm AM bike.
But if you fancy it and you think you will get the benefit from it then do it. There is a lot of opinion around which states that an AM bike is all you need these days - but nothing comes close to the fun of a properly pinned DH bike - so much fun
DH bikes are awesome IF you are confident enough to ride them at the appropriate pace for them to work properly - they only really work is you are really attacking the trail - at lower speeds they are unwieldy and not that rewarding to ride.
I see lots of folks at places like Antur, Revolution, etc who are creeping down he mountain in a big DH rig and they would be far better off on a 160-170mm AM bike.
But if you fancy it and you think you will get the benefit from it then do it. There is a lot of opinion around which states that an AM bike is all you need these days - but nothing comes close to the fun of a properly pinned DH bike - so much fun
Thanks for all the replies, really appreciate all the info.
Currently ride an Orange Five which is used at the local trail centres and up and down the hills/mountains (love North Wales!). DH seems hard to 'get into' as it feels that you need a DH specific bike and in my experience oh never really see any in the flesh unless you are at a DH type centre.
I think that our day of hire-a-bike will decide if we want to pursue it further; it may be the case that we s
t ourselves - I've been telling the wife that it probably looks easier than it is (we have been watching loss of DH clips, big jumps etc). Hopefully not as it looks like a LOT of fun (plus uplifts beat endless fire road).
Cheers again.
Currently ride an Orange Five which is used at the local trail centres and up and down the hills/mountains (love North Wales!). DH seems hard to 'get into' as it feels that you need a DH specific bike and in my experience oh never really see any in the flesh unless you are at a DH type centre.
I think that our day of hire-a-bike will decide if we want to pursue it further; it may be the case that we s
t ourselves - I've been telling the wife that it probably looks easier than it is (we have been watching loss of DH clips, big jumps etc). Hopefully not as it looks like a LOT of fun (plus uplifts beat endless fire road).Cheers again.
As a mountain biker of some 20 years I consider myself very much a downhiller, however in recent years I find myself much faster on an Enduro type bike than my DH bikes. I'm sure this isn't as rare as you might imagine.
My most recent DH bikes, a Kona Operator and an Intense M6, have been pretty unwieldy on anything but the steepest flat out tracks, whereas my 26" wheeled 2011 Specialized Enduro Evo was as quick on most trails and quicker on all but the most gnarly. I put that down to my 'old school' preferences. The Enduro is more similar in geometry, travel and feel to the DH bikes I used to ride, it's just lighter and pedals better!
My last uplift day at BPW I was quicker on a Production Prive Shan had tail than I was on my operator as the place just didn't need a DH bike!
You'll have fun on a DH bike (until the weight gets to you) but you'll have a better day out on a long travel, slack Enduro bike. My next bike will be a 29" Spesh Enduro as I'm convinced it'll be the fastest thing ice ever ridden (29" stumpy Evo was obscene so the Enduro must be even faster!)
Have a go on a DH bike, but go into it with open eyes and don't think you absolutely need a 200mm bike with a 62 deg HA to ride DH.
My most recent DH bikes, a Kona Operator and an Intense M6, have been pretty unwieldy on anything but the steepest flat out tracks, whereas my 26" wheeled 2011 Specialized Enduro Evo was as quick on most trails and quicker on all but the most gnarly. I put that down to my 'old school' preferences. The Enduro is more similar in geometry, travel and feel to the DH bikes I used to ride, it's just lighter and pedals better!
My last uplift day at BPW I was quicker on a Production Prive Shan had tail than I was on my operator as the place just didn't need a DH bike!
You'll have fun on a DH bike (until the weight gets to you) but you'll have a better day out on a long travel, slack Enduro bike. My next bike will be a 29" Spesh Enduro as I'm convinced it'll be the fastest thing ice ever ridden (29" stumpy Evo was obscene so the Enduro must be even faster!)
Have a go on a DH bike, but go into it with open eyes and don't think you absolutely need a 200mm bike with a 62 deg HA to ride DH.
If you think 200mm DH bikes are too much then don't forget Freeride stuff which are basically DH bikes but a bit steerer geo with a bit less travel, bit shorter chain stays. Commencal Supreme FR frames are dirt cheap direct at the minute. I got one to use as a down hill bike as after a 16 year break from DH though modern DH bikes were too much for most of the U.K.
http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCCatalog.asp?I...
Love my FR, it's no good on the flat and a challenge to ride up any hill but good fun at downhill orientated bike parks. Saying that I suspect a 170mm air shock enduro bike would be better - but then one of them new would cost a shed loads more.
http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCCatalog.asp?I...
Love my FR, it's no good on the flat and a challenge to ride up any hill but good fun at downhill orientated bike parks. Saying that I suspect a 170mm air shock enduro bike would be better - but then one of them new would cost a shed loads more.
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Sunday 12th June 10:26
If it's any use I've a 2012 Orange 5 and took it on both Wildcart and Draft about 3 years ago. Draft was great but Wildcart was pushing my abilities and confidence, not sure a different bike would have helped. I've ridden 2 of the Black trails at Bike Park Wales on it, which were again at the limit of my abilities and confidence, suspect the bike would have given more. Book yourself onto a day at Bike Park Wales and see how you go, I think you'll be surprised by your bike, I continuously am after 4 years of ownership.
missing the VR6 said:
If it's any use I've a 2012 Orange 5 and took it on both Wildcart and Draft about 3 years ago. Draft was great but Wildcart was pushing my abilities and confidence, not sure a different bike would have helped. I've ridden 2 of the Black trails at Bike Park Wales on it, which were again at the limit of my abilities and confidence, suspect the bike would have given more. Book yourself onto a day at Bike Park Wales and see how you go, I think you'll be surprised by your bike, I continuously am after 4 years of ownership.
Exactly my sort of thinking.I rode BPW a couple of months ago on my Stumpy Evo 650b.
All the blue tracks were a doddle.
They only times I had any issues on any of the reds were tight technical bits which - from what previous posters have said - wouldn't have been helped by a DH bike, as the speed wouldn't have been there.
The qualifiers at the top of the blacks were enough to tell me they were beyond my capability as a rider, but I didn't really see anything to suggest they would've been beyond the bike's capabilities with a more able rider on it.
ben_h100 said:
Thanks for all the replies, really appreciate all the info.
Currently ride an Orange Five which is used at the local trail centres and up and down the hills/mountains (love North Wales!). DH seems hard to 'get into' as it feels that you need a DH specific bike and in my experience oh never really see any in the flesh unless you are at a DH type centre.
I think that our day of hire-a-bike will decide if we want to pursue it further; it may be the case that we st ourselves - I've been telling the wife that it probably looks easier than it is (we have been watching loss of DH clips, big jumps etc). Hopefully not as it looks like a LOT of fun (plus uplifts beat endless fire road).
Cheers again.
I gave up my DH bike about 5 years ago now, a nasty accident on my trail bike meant the risk factor was too high for me, but I've been riding more gravity stuff again in recent years.Currently ride an Orange Five which is used at the local trail centres and up and down the hills/mountains (love North Wales!). DH seems hard to 'get into' as it feels that you need a DH specific bike and in my experience oh never really see any in the flesh unless you are at a DH type centre.
I think that our day of hire-a-bike will decide if we want to pursue it further; it may be the case that we s
t ourselves - I've been telling the wife that it probably looks easier than it is (we have been watching loss of DH clips, big jumps etc). Hopefully not as it looks like a LOT of fun (plus uplifts beat endless fire road).Cheers again.
I used to say "a full on DH bike is like an Elephant, cool to own, but when do you get to use it?" because a few years ago your choices were get into DH racing which is a whole other ball-game and I detest competitive riding, or for me a monthly uplift at Cwmcarn and counting down the days to our yearly trip to the Alps / Whistler. There's always going to be a full cheeky trails you can find, but it's a lot of slogging very heavy bikes up muddy banks for hours to spend a few precious minutes racing down some setchy home-brew trail with jumps without anywhere to land, stumps in the corners and infinate other ways to smash yourself up.
These days things are much better, Bike Park Wales, Cwmcarn, AS, Gawton, FOD etc - lots of ways to get a big bike up the hill and come down purpose built tracks in various degrees of terror thankfully these days too there's a learning curve, rather than a pain barrier as you try to tranistion from XC to DH.
If you're lucky enough to have piles of disposible cash by all means get yourself a full-on DH to learn on, if you want a new one it's hard to beat a Tuesday for VFM AND outright performance but these days most of the gravity places are ridable on Enduro style bikes, I know my Tracer 275 is actually faster down Cwmcarn DH track than my 9" Cove Shocker was, but I can ride it anywhere - if I was OP I'd try out as many gravity places as possible on my 5 and then consider a full DH bike.
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