Tubeless = permanent slow puncture
Discussion
Earlier this year I converted my CX bike to tubeless. It came with WTB TCS tyres and wheels. About 6 months and 2000km on I am now considering just sticking tubes back in as tubeless seems very expensive and a complete hassle.
First puncture wouldn't seal it was a 2mm hole made by a flint. I took the wheel to the LBS who had a go repairing it with no luck. They convinced me to buy a new tyre (which was a different make to the WTB ones I had). The LBS guy fitted it using Caffe Lattex. When he first inflated it the tyre leapt off the rim which didn't exactly fill me with confidence in the tyres... Second go it sealed ok.
All was fine for 2 months then I needed to add new fluid; I added some more Caffe Latex (supplied/recommended by the LBS) but I couldn't get the LBS supplied tyre to seal so I had to go back to the LBS to get them to fit it.
Roll on 2 weeks and I started getting punctures, Caffe Latex was not sealing pinprick sized holes and appeared to be crap. I decided ti try some Stans. All went well with the WTB tyre but yet again the LBS supplied tyre would not seal. I deceided to give up on the LBS supplied tyre and went online and bought another WTB tyre.
I set up the WTB tyre and for general riding all seems good. The downside is that I have to pump the tyre up before every ride. It is like having a permanent slow puncture. When I add more Stans and leave it overnight I can see little drops of latex appear in the tread. The holes cant be bigger than pin-pricks but the aren't sealing 100%. Am I doing something wrong? The tyres are pumped to 45PSI, is it case that tubeless technology is a bit s
t and only suitable for 30PSI or lower?
I have just bought some Orange-Seal which I hope does a better job - if it fails I think I will go back to tubes. I must have spent about £200 on latex, rim tape, vales and tyres, I think I could have put a new tube in for every 20km I have ridden and still saved money.
First puncture wouldn't seal it was a 2mm hole made by a flint. I took the wheel to the LBS who had a go repairing it with no luck. They convinced me to buy a new tyre (which was a different make to the WTB ones I had). The LBS guy fitted it using Caffe Lattex. When he first inflated it the tyre leapt off the rim which didn't exactly fill me with confidence in the tyres... Second go it sealed ok.
All was fine for 2 months then I needed to add new fluid; I added some more Caffe Latex (supplied/recommended by the LBS) but I couldn't get the LBS supplied tyre to seal so I had to go back to the LBS to get them to fit it.
Roll on 2 weeks and I started getting punctures, Caffe Latex was not sealing pinprick sized holes and appeared to be crap. I decided ti try some Stans. All went well with the WTB tyre but yet again the LBS supplied tyre would not seal. I deceided to give up on the LBS supplied tyre and went online and bought another WTB tyre.
I set up the WTB tyre and for general riding all seems good. The downside is that I have to pump the tyre up before every ride. It is like having a permanent slow puncture. When I add more Stans and leave it overnight I can see little drops of latex appear in the tread. The holes cant be bigger than pin-pricks but the aren't sealing 100%. Am I doing something wrong? The tyres are pumped to 45PSI, is it case that tubeless technology is a bit s
t and only suitable for 30PSI or lower?I have just bought some Orange-Seal which I hope does a better job - if it fails I think I will go back to tubes. I must have spent about £200 on latex, rim tape, vales and tyres, I think I could have put a new tube in for every 20km I have ridden and still saved money.
I've been in this position before but now both my MTB's are running tubeless and on the odd occasion when one hasn't been used much I notice the pressures are a little soft so have to put more air in, on regular use they seem to hold air fine and so far I've not had Punctures in either (8 months or so in now) - I don't know if the lack of use causes the pressure drop or whether its a sealing issue but I never see signs of leaks - I am using Stans fluid, one bike has proper rim tape (factory applied) the other is running electrical tape (seems to be the worst one for pressure drop over time).
I play round with pressures dependent on if I ride a trail centre as opposed to a X-Country/road mix from home so maybe drops in pressure are a little less notable as I am regularly checking / adjusting pressures.
When I have had punctures in the past (have run tubeless on another bike previous) that haven't sealed, If a tube has been put in, generally it stays in if there is still life in the tyres....
I play round with pressures dependent on if I ride a trail centre as opposed to a X-Country/road mix from home so maybe drops in pressure are a little less notable as I am regularly checking / adjusting pressures.
When I have had punctures in the past (have run tubeless on another bike previous) that haven't sealed, If a tube has been put in, generally it stays in if there is still life in the tyres....
Some tyres are too thin and just sweat. In the past when I've used "TL ready" MTB Schwalbes (not the full UST Tubeless) I've found they sweat for a few days but then dry out and are spot on. On the CX bike I've only used Stans rims and Clement tyres (standard folding not their new tubeless version).
A lot of tyres are too slack to seal at low pressure and are therefore pointless for CX. Schwalbe Racing Ralphs would only seal above 40psi and they'd burp loudly if you gave them some stick.
The Clements are reasonably tight on the rim and dont sweat at all.
A lot of tyres are too slack to seal at low pressure and are therefore pointless for CX. Schwalbe Racing Ralphs would only seal above 40psi and they'd burp loudly if you gave them some stick.
The Clements are reasonably tight on the rim and dont sweat at all.
Sounds like the WTB tyres are just rubbish, are they advertised as tubeless ready?
I've been running tubeless on MTBs for at least 5 years. In my experience Specialized 2bliss tyres are the best by miles - they seem to be the most 'rubbery' and always go up easy with just a track pump, and seal up properly.
They do a massive range and also they are quite good value compared to some of the high end Schwalbe/Continental etc.
I use Stans Notubes sealant after poor experiences with others too.
In fact I've just got a pair of Specalized Terra 700x33 cyclocross tyres so I can convert that bike to tubeless to. I never want to see an inner tube again.
I've been running tubeless on MTBs for at least 5 years. In my experience Specialized 2bliss tyres are the best by miles - they seem to be the most 'rubbery' and always go up easy with just a track pump, and seal up properly.
They do a massive range and also they are quite good value compared to some of the high end Schwalbe/Continental etc.
I use Stans Notubes sealant after poor experiences with others too.
In fact I've just got a pair of Specalized Terra 700x33 cyclocross tyres so I can convert that bike to tubeless to. I never want to see an inner tube again.
The WTB tyres seal ok against the rim and have a special lip for gripping the rim of the wheels. One time they sealed so tight I broke 2 tyre levers trying to get them off...
The problem is that the front one weeps fluid from what looks like lots of pin-prick holes. Stans has been better than Caffe Latex which was completely useless (but apparently more environmentally friendly :rolleyes").
The LBS recommended Hutchinson tire was crap - after it blew off the rim in the bike shop I was always nervous it would happened again, possibly whilst riding. It was also nigh on impossible to seal without a compressor.
A friend of mine tried tubeless with a Mavic setup, after 6 weeks he gave up and has gone back to tubes; hefeels that tubeless isn't suitable for CX bikes.
The problem is that the front one weeps fluid from what looks like lots of pin-prick holes. Stans has been better than Caffe Latex which was completely useless (but apparently more environmentally friendly :rolleyes").
The LBS recommended Hutchinson tire was crap - after it blew off the rim in the bike shop I was always nervous it would happened again, possibly whilst riding. It was also nigh on impossible to seal without a compressor.
A friend of mine tried tubeless with a Mavic setup, after 6 weeks he gave up and has gone back to tubes; hefeels that tubeless isn't suitable for CX bikes.
Even my road tubeless tyre with a nasty little sealed hole on the shoulder (which kept re-sealing) was holding 75 psi during a 5hr ride (a drop of 15 psi).
New tyre that was delivered yesterday I cannot get to seat on the rim, or 1 shop. Will try some new rim tape as I think air is escaping through nipple holes.
I am using this stuff which seems to work ok on a road bike. http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/tubeless-b...
Apparently this stuff plugs huge holes, you cannot even put it into the tyre via a valve! http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/tubeless-b...
Maybe you need to swap out sealant and try another type.
New tyre that was delivered yesterday I cannot get to seat on the rim, or 1 shop. Will try some new rim tape as I think air is escaping through nipple holes.
I am using this stuff which seems to work ok on a road bike. http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/tubeless-b...
Apparently this stuff plugs huge holes, you cannot even put it into the tyre via a valve! http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/tubeless-b...
Maybe you need to swap out sealant and try another type.
I've dropped tubeless for MTBing. PITA!
I had what I thought was a slow puncture and it was driving me fking crazy. Mavic crossmax wheels, Maxxis tyres - proper tubeless ones. I found, eventually, that I had a little air escaping from the wheel weld where the rim is closed on itself. The weld was a little rough and so the tyre wouldn't quite seal the bead against the wheel. Took me ages to find.
Running tubes now.
I had what I thought was a slow puncture and it was driving me f
king crazy. Mavic crossmax wheels, Maxxis tyres - proper tubeless ones. I found, eventually, that I had a little air escaping from the wheel weld where the rim is closed on itself. The weld was a little rough and so the tyre wouldn't quite seal the bead against the wheel. Took me ages to find.Running tubes now.
My experience with ghetto tubeless on mountain bikes is that it's very hit and miss if you don't use tubeless ready tyres. I've had 2 identical tyres (possibly different batches) exhibit completely different behaviour. Had good success with Maxxis EXO + TR tyres so maybe give them a go? It looks like they do some CX tyres with those specs (Mud Wrestler).
Edited by mackie1 on Wednesday 21st September 09:48
I tried Tubeless on my MTB, first ride out I hit a big flint on a fast downhill stretch. Gash in rear tyre, instant flat and my back covered in Latex, had to fit a tube which was a real mess with latex all over the tyre. Most annoying thing was I was only about 500 meters from home and could see my garage.
Tried latex tubes in my road bikes but they seem to leak air and need inflating before every ride.
Tried latex tubes in my road bikes but they seem to leak air and need inflating before every ride.
I get to the point when I have invested enough time and patience in something and it is still causing issues, I just drop it and go back to something that "just works"
If I was in your position id just stick a tube in and carry on as before.
Problem I have is I get such little spare time, I don't want to spend it bent over a bike swearing and grazing my knuckles when I can be out rideing it, even if Tubeless offers a better ride and less punctures in theory
If I was in your position id just stick a tube in and carry on as before.
Problem I have is I get such little spare time, I don't want to spend it bent over a bike swearing and grazing my knuckles when I can be out rideing it, even if Tubeless offers a better ride and less punctures in theory
TwistingMyMelon said:
...Problem I have is I get such little spare time, I don't want to spend it bent over a bike swearing and grazing my knuckles when I can be out rideing it, even if Tubeless offers a better ride and less punctures in theory
I've not even bothered with tubeless. Seems like sooooo much fuss for debatable benefits.I've currently got a front tyre/tube combo that is leaking air between rides. About 10psi after 48 hours. I'm running it at 25psi at inflation, so it's no great shakes to pump some more in before a ride. I know WHY it's doing it. I got a x4 puncture on a local MTB trail when I rode through an unseen bramble patch. So I found the 4 perforations, matched them to the tyre and pulled out the tips of three thorns. Either I failed to patch one of the holes properly, or failed to find the fourth thorn. Or maybe I failed to find a fifth? Either way, at the time it got me home before going flat overnight, and I've had it all apart twice finding and patching holes. There's no way I'm doing it again if it holds enough pressure to knock out four or five hours of off-road riding, and then lasts for two days sat in the garage. Not when I could spend that time out on the trails.
Can't comment on high pressure applications but all my mountain bikes are tubeless, what I learnt early on is use quality tyres, Schwalbe in snake skin or dd casing, don't weep, stay inflated, don't puncture. I've never had a puncture with a good Schwalbe tyre run below 30 psi tubeless.
Ive gone tubeless on my Mtb and wouldn't go back.
I found the biggest thing was making sure the rims were clean from contamination on the inside. I now wipe mine down with white spirit before fitting tyres. Then it's a simple case of taking the valve out, connecting to the ghetto compressor, filling them with air, refitting the valve, and then pumping up to 45-50 psi to make sure the tyre is seated. From there I just follow the Stans video.
All my tyres stay up for a couple of months before I need to add more air.
I found the biggest thing was making sure the rims were clean from contamination on the inside. I now wipe mine down with white spirit before fitting tyres. Then it's a simple case of taking the valve out, connecting to the ghetto compressor, filling them with air, refitting the valve, and then pumping up to 45-50 psi to make sure the tyre is seated. From there I just follow the Stans video.
All my tyres stay up for a couple of months before I need to add more air.
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