Wider road tyres - at what point are they too wide?
Discussion
I'm interested in finding out whether anyone has ever tested to see how far they can go on road tyre width before it starts having a negative effect on speed? It was quite the fashion only a few years ago to be on 23s but it seems that 25c is now the norm with some going up to 28c. My latest ride has clearance for up to 40c and i'm currently riding around on 35c tyres. Theyre not slick though and i'm looking to get something which is entirely focused on fast road use.
The Schwalbe G-One Speed tyres (old S-Ones) come in 30c, 35c and 38c varieties. A set of Clement LGG tyres 32c. It does feel great to be riding around on such comfortable tyres, but wanting something that rolls as best as it possibly can means there must be a tipping point where a fatter tyre clearly affects bike speeds through friction, drag etc. I must stress, we are talking about a 11kg bike here with an average rider on board. I'm not looking for marginal gains, but something that would enhance the on road experience even more.
The Schwalbe G-One Speed tyres (old S-Ones) come in 30c, 35c and 38c varieties. A set of Clement LGG tyres 32c. It does feel great to be riding around on such comfortable tyres, but wanting something that rolls as best as it possibly can means there must be a tipping point where a fatter tyre clearly affects bike speeds through friction, drag etc. I must stress, we are talking about a 11kg bike here with an average rider on board. I'm not looking for marginal gains, but something that would enhance the on road experience even more.
I have doggedly used 23mm tyres up until last week when I was joined by a mate running 47mm slicks who was not obviously handicapped by his choice of rubber
As soon as I got home I ordered a set of 32mm Conti's and have immediately got used to the extra compliance and comfort with no obvious penalty in average speed
I'm not sure where I sit on this debate.
I've only experienced 23c tyres so far on my road bike, all year round. I've got a set of 25c Conti Grand Prix SII to put on it, but not yet ridden anything wider than 23c. It's not because I don't like the idea of wider tyres, more that I'm a cheapskate and I've been "using up" older part-worn sets that were kicking around in the garage before buying wider tyres when I need new ones. If I'm honest, I think I'll be limited to 28c maximum due to clearances, but i'd happily go as wide as the frame (and brake calipers) would accept.
Given Sunday's experience riding 2.1" Nobby Nics on a MTB and claiming a road KOM... https://www.strava.com/segments/13205180?filter=ov... ...on it, I'd say that it's unlikely that wider tyres would cost you much in terms of outright speed. 'P2' on that segment is a notorious local KOM hunter too! I'm sure he'll get out and claim it back soon enough, but I was pretty shocked to maintain that sort of speed on such knobbly, wide, off-road rubber.
I've only experienced 23c tyres so far on my road bike, all year round. I've got a set of 25c Conti Grand Prix SII to put on it, but not yet ridden anything wider than 23c. It's not because I don't like the idea of wider tyres, more that I'm a cheapskate and I've been "using up" older part-worn sets that were kicking around in the garage before buying wider tyres when I need new ones. If I'm honest, I think I'll be limited to 28c maximum due to clearances, but i'd happily go as wide as the frame (and brake calipers) would accept.
Given Sunday's experience riding 2.1" Nobby Nics on a MTB and claiming a road KOM... https://www.strava.com/segments/13205180?filter=ov... ...on it, I'd say that it's unlikely that wider tyres would cost you much in terms of outright speed. 'P2' on that segment is a notorious local KOM hunter too! I'm sure he'll get out and claim it back soon enough, but I was pretty shocked to maintain that sort of speed on such knobbly, wide, off-road rubber.
Some of the triathlon guys have looked into it. Tom Anhalt's blog would be a good place to start:
http://bikeblather.blogspot.de
There is a trade-off, with slightly improved rolling resistance with really high end wider race clinchers against the slightly increased frontal area of wider rubber and rim.
Bear in mind that newer, wider rims (26mm seems to be the current vogue) fit a wider tyre better than an older Deep-V narrow rim, where a wider tyre will give a lightbulb-shaped profile.
My personal favourite set up is 622/28 on the back, 622/25 on the front, latex tubes, Conti GP4000 Black Chilli tyres.
For TT I have an 88mm deep front with a fairly narrow (22mm) rim, so I use the Continental Attack/Force combo.
http://bikeblather.blogspot.de
There is a trade-off, with slightly improved rolling resistance with really high end wider race clinchers against the slightly increased frontal area of wider rubber and rim.
Bear in mind that newer, wider rims (26mm seems to be the current vogue) fit a wider tyre better than an older Deep-V narrow rim, where a wider tyre will give a lightbulb-shaped profile.
My personal favourite set up is 622/28 on the back, 622/25 on the front, latex tubes, Conti GP4000 Black Chilli tyres.
For TT I have an 88mm deep front with a fairly narrow (22mm) rim, so I use the Continental Attack/Force combo.
Edited by Barchettaman on Tuesday 14th February 07:31
There are so many variables, such as rider weight, tyre construction, tyre weight, rider weight, road surface its hard to compare at times.
Ive gone up to 32cs on my commuter and this morning i've realised ive had enough , they are just too draggy on the steep hill I do first, its the final nail on the coffin as it is a heavy bike . Due to the width they are a very tough tyre and done me proud through pitch black commuting down gravel tracks and back lanes, but I really notice the extra drag on the climbs. On a similar note as they are draggy, I max them out with PSI, which means the ride is pretty poor and not a great deal of grip . On the plus side they were only £8 and can cope with anything I chuck at them. Im going to drop down to a set of 28c commuter tyres to see if there is any difference
On my road bikes I use 25c on my winter bike and 23c on my summer one. Again I notice a slight difference on climbs when I am pushing hard out the saddle, but not much , in that I prefer climbing with 23s. As I enter a few hill climbs that little difference can get an extra few places, even if it is just a placebo, I dont really care! With the state of british roads 25s are probably the better all year round option .
Ive gone up to 32cs on my commuter and this morning i've realised ive had enough , they are just too draggy on the steep hill I do first, its the final nail on the coffin as it is a heavy bike . Due to the width they are a very tough tyre and done me proud through pitch black commuting down gravel tracks and back lanes, but I really notice the extra drag on the climbs. On a similar note as they are draggy, I max them out with PSI, which means the ride is pretty poor and not a great deal of grip . On the plus side they were only £8 and can cope with anything I chuck at them. Im going to drop down to a set of 28c commuter tyres to see if there is any difference
On my road bikes I use 25c on my winter bike and 23c on my summer one. Again I notice a slight difference on climbs when I am pushing hard out the saddle, but not much , in that I prefer climbing with 23s. As I enter a few hill climbs that little difference can get an extra few places, even if it is just a placebo, I dont really care! With the state of british roads 25s are probably the better all year round option .
There was a GCN video on this a while back.
Their conclusion was, as with everything, it depends. But essentially, fatter tyres with less pressure offer better rolling resistance and more assured cornering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHxQg1OW0A
Their conclusion was, as with everything, it depends. But essentially, fatter tyres with less pressure offer better rolling resistance and more assured cornering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHxQg1OW0A
I've been riding with 38c Compass tyres on the road for the past year or so and they never feel slow or draggy. I've just switched to some tubeless 30c Schwalbe G-one Speed tyres and they feel a little bit faster but nowhere near as comfortable.
It's not exactly scientific proof of what's fast and what's slow but I won't be running anything narrower than the 30's in future as the wider tyres don't seem to handicap me as far as I can tell. If Compass did the 38c Barlow Pass tyres in a tubeless version, they'd be the perfect tyre as far as I'm concerned
There was a couple of interesting things on Jan Heine's blog about running wider tyres at lower pressures and how fast/slow they are.
It's not exactly scientific proof of what's fast and what's slow but I won't be running anything narrower than the 30's in future as the wider tyres don't seem to handicap me as far as I can tell. If Compass did the 38c Barlow Pass tyres in a tubeless version, they'd be the perfect tyre as far as I'm concerned
There was a couple of interesting things on Jan Heine's blog about running wider tyres at lower pressures and how fast/slow they are.
Unless it is done under test conditions with constants it's all hear say.
I know that in the Summer,with the sun on my back,I feel better and enjoy cycling more than when it is pissing it down.
I think that is the biggest factor,not the tyres,my mental state and how I feel has a much bigger influence.
I know that in the Summer,with the sun on my back,I feel better and enjoy cycling more than when it is pissing it down.
I think that is the biggest factor,not the tyres,my mental state and how I feel has a much bigger influence.
Tyres definitely do feel different. I've had several sets and whilst some have very little difference in them, the others are noticeable. A set of Gatorskins feel a lot different to a set of GP4000s with both at 23c and same pressure. On the other hand, the Michelin Pro4s are as good as the GPs in my opinion.
I think i'll go 30c or 32c for a set of summer slicks on this bike. Its not my go to carbon bike, but it'll be used in the summer when I take it away on hols with me so I want something a bit lighter and a bit easier rolling for when the road goes up.
I think i'll go 30c or 32c for a set of summer slicks on this bike. Its not my go to carbon bike, but it'll be used in the summer when I take it away on hols with me so I want something a bit lighter and a bit easier rolling for when the road goes up.
Kell said:
There was a GCN video on this a while back.
Their conclusion was, as with everything, it depends. But essentially, fatter tyres with less pressure offer better rolling resistance and more assured cornering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHxQg1OW0A
I remember watching this, if my memory serves me correctly, you also require fat rims to negate aerodynamic effects, also being able to run the lower psi helps to soak up the road surface, which aided with being able to push on more consistently. Their conclusion was, as with everything, it depends. But essentially, fatter tyres with less pressure offer better rolling resistance and more assured cornering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHxQg1OW0A
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