New groupset time
Discussion
In the new year I'm finally replacing my 2009 Cube Ariel, with a stealth looking Kinesis Athein Evo (frame is decided, my trusted local shop rides them and the previous version was fast apparently), it's a whole new groupset.
Never had a quality road set currently on Tiagra/Sora but the mtb has always been Sram X9, Hope and XT so want something quality and long lived. Trying to decide between R8000 Ultegra or 5800 105, the Ultegra is a brand new release and 105 is couple years old.
I don't think SRAM Force is in the budget as it's at least £100 more than R8000 which is the newest design.
Has anyone tried the new Ultegra? Any opinions on either one?
Never had a quality road set currently on Tiagra/Sora but the mtb has always been Sram X9, Hope and XT so want something quality and long lived. Trying to decide between R8000 Ultegra or 5800 105, the Ultegra is a brand new release and 105 is couple years old.
I don't think SRAM Force is in the budget as it's at least £100 more than R8000 which is the newest design.
Has anyone tried the new Ultegra? Any opinions on either one?
I can't help with a review of the R8000 Ultegra, but I've done nearly 10,000 miles on the previous generation 6800 Ultegra.
All good!
I think that for the sake of having "shiny, shiny" on the bike, new Ultegra would be nice. But all reports I've heard about 5800 105 are that it's functionally similar to Ultegra of the same generation, just not so light weight and not quite as "blingy" in appearance.
I would happily have bought a bike with 105 on, but that version of the frame was 'Green!' - and I far preferred the red version that was trimmed with Ultegra trinkets.
If money is a consideration for you, be aware too that the higher the groupset the higher the price of replacement components. I'm going to need new chainrings at some point soon, and it looks like a whole 105 chainset will cost less than the required Ultegra chain rings. But then forward compatibility and availability may be better with a 'new tech' groupset, so if you're looking at a long term relationship with the bike you might want the newer kit? But at the end of the day, if spares aren't available you can always switch groupsets again down the line if the frame is still in fine fettle.
My local shoe repairer has a sign that says "Shoes that are worth repairing are worth repairing". I think the same is true of good frames - they're worth spending money to modernise components on them.
Not sure if that helps at all, but I've been in a similar situation, where I could have (at the time, at least) stretched to Dura-Ace, only really "needed" 105, but ended up with Ultegra because it was attached to my favourite frame colour. No logic in my decision other than "I'm more likely to want to ride a red bike than a green bike". Dura-Ace just felt like more kit than I needed. A lot more...
All good!
I think that for the sake of having "shiny, shiny" on the bike, new Ultegra would be nice. But all reports I've heard about 5800 105 are that it's functionally similar to Ultegra of the same generation, just not so light weight and not quite as "blingy" in appearance.
I would happily have bought a bike with 105 on, but that version of the frame was 'Green!' - and I far preferred the red version that was trimmed with Ultegra trinkets.
If money is a consideration for you, be aware too that the higher the groupset the higher the price of replacement components. I'm going to need new chainrings at some point soon, and it looks like a whole 105 chainset will cost less than the required Ultegra chain rings. But then forward compatibility and availability may be better with a 'new tech' groupset, so if you're looking at a long term relationship with the bike you might want the newer kit? But at the end of the day, if spares aren't available you can always switch groupsets again down the line if the frame is still in fine fettle.
My local shoe repairer has a sign that says "Shoes that are worth repairing are worth repairing". I think the same is true of good frames - they're worth spending money to modernise components on them.
Not sure if that helps at all, but I've been in a similar situation, where I could have (at the time, at least) stretched to Dura-Ace, only really "needed" 105, but ended up with Ultegra because it was attached to my favourite frame colour. No logic in my decision other than "I'm more likely to want to ride a red bike than a green bike". Dura-Ace just felt like more kit than I needed. A lot more...
Totally agree with YJ's opinions above. I've had Ultegra 6800 too for about 18 months, and it's pretty faultless.
Most people struggle to tell the difference between that and 105 though so you could start there and as things wear out upgrade to Ultegra bit by bit.
I went from an 11-28 cassette to an 11-32 for about £100; new cassette chain and long cage derailleur in the sales.
Most people struggle to tell the difference between that and 105 though so you could start there and as things wear out upgrade to Ultegra bit by bit.
I went from an 11-28 cassette to an 11-32 for about £100; new cassette chain and long cage derailleur in the sales.
ks to having the latest greatest kitR8000 is a direct descendant of the Dura-Ace R series so gets the trickle down from the latest version of Shimano (6800 is working off the previous tech trickle down), shadow mech for better shifts, calipers that will better take 28mm tyres, textured hoods and a better shape, it's does weigh a bit more than 6800 though.
The ability to take 28mm tyres is swinging it for me, the roads near me are not awesome and being a bit scared I like good brakes!
If I were keeping the frame it'd be a no brainer for r8000!, but she's always been a bit small so will make it work and do it in one go.
If I could find a release date for next 105 then I'd probably wait, although I do keep parts for ages so the posh kit lasts.
If I were keeping the frame it'd be a no brainer for r8000!, but she's always been a bit small so will make it work and do it in one go.
If I could find a release date for next 105 then I'd probably wait, although I do keep parts for ages so the posh kit lasts.
JPJPJP said:
I wonder how soon 105 di2 is coming?
Doubt it will ever arrive. A) doing it cheaper and still reliable will be a huge challenge B) Surely it will take the USP of Ultegra away (i.e less people will stretch their budget to Ultegra di2) Edited by BeirutTaxi on Monday 25th December 09:51
Hmm. After riding all flavours of groupsets from tourney to Dura Ace, plenty of vintage stuff, SRAM, Campagnolo 8-speed, I can say that in my experience shifting performance is determined by:
- how posh the cables and housings are
- how well dialed-in the mechs are
- how worn and/or clean the drivetrain is
Groupset 'enjoyment' has much to do with adequate gear range, hood ergonomics and braking performance.
I would strip down your current Tiara/Sora mix, recable with a set of Jagwire Road Pro, put in a pair of posh brake pads & clean the rims, and spend the money saved on beer.
EDIT: sorry, just saw you're buying new. 105 11-speed is the value groupset.
- how posh the cables and housings are
- how well dialed-in the mechs are
- how worn and/or clean the drivetrain is
Groupset 'enjoyment' has much to do with adequate gear range, hood ergonomics and braking performance.
I would strip down your current Tiara/Sora mix, recable with a set of Jagwire Road Pro, put in a pair of posh brake pads & clean the rims, and spend the money saved on beer.
EDIT: sorry, just saw you're buying new. 105 11-speed is the value groupset.
I have a 10sp SRAM Force ali framed bike and 11sp Ultegra 6800 carbon bike.
I've probably done more miles on the SRAM equipped bike. ay 5-7000 miles and probably only 2k on the Ultegra. I still rate SRAM downshifts as faster and more precise compared to Ultegra. Much shorted lever travel on the lever and when you are giving it some beans on the flat, the sram downshift is fantastic.
However, going up the block isn't as smooth as Ultegra and I found the front mech/shift to be very hit and miss.
However, Shimano will always be cheaper than SRAM Force as less bikes are supplied with Force. Also SRAM just took too long to come out with an electric shifting option and that hasn't helped their market position, especially when it comes to what the World Tour teams use.
I've probably done more miles on the SRAM equipped bike. ay 5-7000 miles and probably only 2k on the Ultegra. I still rate SRAM downshifts as faster and more precise compared to Ultegra. Much shorted lever travel on the lever and when you are giving it some beans on the flat, the sram downshift is fantastic.
However, going up the block isn't as smooth as Ultegra and I found the front mech/shift to be very hit and miss.
However, Shimano will always be cheaper than SRAM Force as less bikes are supplied with Force. Also SRAM just took too long to come out with an electric shifting option and that hasn't helped their market position, especially when it comes to what the World Tour teams use.
I recently put sram onto two of my bikes
On my best bike I put together some 10sp Red parts. New chainset on planetx for £150, used shifters £65 with new hoods at £10. Front mech £35, rear mech £40. Added new jockey wheels and a basic chain/cassette. So that's drivetrain for about £300, it's light and lovely to ride.
On my renovated commuter I re-used a shimano chainset I had, but Merlin are doing 105 for £32.50 atm. I added some new boxed apex 10sp shifters at £40 I found in the classifieds, new rival wifly rear mech and new force 22 yaw front mech. So with an 11-32 cassette and new chain, this was under £200. Sram is super easy as all the road kit 10sp/11sp has the same pull ratio so need to worry about compatibility as long as cassette and shifters match. The shift quality on this is amazing too, different but still very nice. I think the shifters are sprung slightly differently so they have a more 'clicky' feel to them.
As said before there are loads of bling slingers who will pay for your groupset for you. My advice is to let them!
Slightly paradoxically 1x is being marketed at the same time as 11speed. So on the one hand they say you can make do with a few less gears and have the full range with 1x, on the other it's crucial to have 22 ratios instead of 20. For me 10sp is the sweet spot, incredible value at the moment as the trends are electronic/hydraulic/di2/1x. I'll get there in time when that stuff is cast off.
On my best bike I put together some 10sp Red parts. New chainset on planetx for £150, used shifters £65 with new hoods at £10. Front mech £35, rear mech £40. Added new jockey wheels and a basic chain/cassette. So that's drivetrain for about £300, it's light and lovely to ride.
On my renovated commuter I re-used a shimano chainset I had, but Merlin are doing 105 for £32.50 atm. I added some new boxed apex 10sp shifters at £40 I found in the classifieds, new rival wifly rear mech and new force 22 yaw front mech. So with an 11-32 cassette and new chain, this was under £200. Sram is super easy as all the road kit 10sp/11sp has the same pull ratio so need to worry about compatibility as long as cassette and shifters match. The shift quality on this is amazing too, different but still very nice. I think the shifters are sprung slightly differently so they have a more 'clicky' feel to them.
As said before there are loads of bling slingers who will pay for your groupset for you. My advice is to let them!
Slightly paradoxically 1x is being marketed at the same time as 11speed. So on the one hand they say you can make do with a few less gears and have the full range with 1x, on the other it's crucial to have 22 ratios instead of 20. For me 10sp is the sweet spot, incredible value at the moment as the trends are electronic/hydraulic/di2/1x. I'll get there in time when that stuff is cast off.
idiotgap said:
For me 10sp is the sweet spot, incredible value at the moment as the trends are electronic/hydraulic/di2/1x. I'll get there in time when that stuff is cast off.
Very much so. 10sp Tiagra works beautifully with posh cables, I have it on my commuter.Having said that, if 11sp 105 is at 300 quid for a complete groupset it does make a lot of sense.
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