Training plan or just what you fancy?
Discussion
Just interested in what people are doing through the winter and looking for some advice on the best way forward.
After 6 years of on off cycling doing a max of around 2000 miles a year (just riding around) I started hitting Zwift in November and maintained it so far, doing about 5 or 6 hours a week. A lot of these are structured workouts or events, so I'm doing something other than riding around on it but I'm not following any particular plan. I'm mixing it up with sessions where I'll be holding a pace or using ERG mode (e.g 2x20 or sweet spot) or tempo with activators, some sprints and efforts for 30s 1 min 5 mins etc. I'm not doing the same thing all of the time and I'm trying to do a longer 2hr+ ride once a week. The weather has meant most of it is indoor but as it warms up I should find myself out mostly on the road.
I work shifts (4 on 4 off at 12hrs plus 2 hrs commute in the car) so training on work on days is out. After nightshift, I dont sleep too well so im up around 6hrs later and can do a light hour effort. Saturdays and sundays rides often have to be done at any other day in the week. I'm also finding that it means i'm going back to back on hard sessions so not sure if thats the best thing to be doing.
FTP I've gone from high 190s and currently up around 240w which is about 3.2w/kg so I'm making progress but the last 2 or 3 weeks it's started to plateau a little.
I've not got any intentions to race, mainly to improve my fitness, get faster on rides out and be able to keep pace with some better riders i ride with. I've dropped from 78 to 74kg since Christmas and likely a bit more to come mainly from cutting junk and alcohol.
I'm looking at the fitness freshness graphs on Strava which show positive fitness gains, but the fatigue and form graphs don't seem to correlate with how I'm feeling half of the time.
Just looking for some direction on what to focus on, to keep making those gains in power and endurance (if the pair can be improved at the same time).
After 6 years of on off cycling doing a max of around 2000 miles a year (just riding around) I started hitting Zwift in November and maintained it so far, doing about 5 or 6 hours a week. A lot of these are structured workouts or events, so I'm doing something other than riding around on it but I'm not following any particular plan. I'm mixing it up with sessions where I'll be holding a pace or using ERG mode (e.g 2x20 or sweet spot) or tempo with activators, some sprints and efforts for 30s 1 min 5 mins etc. I'm not doing the same thing all of the time and I'm trying to do a longer 2hr+ ride once a week. The weather has meant most of it is indoor but as it warms up I should find myself out mostly on the road.
I work shifts (4 on 4 off at 12hrs plus 2 hrs commute in the car) so training on work on days is out. After nightshift, I dont sleep too well so im up around 6hrs later and can do a light hour effort. Saturdays and sundays rides often have to be done at any other day in the week. I'm also finding that it means i'm going back to back on hard sessions so not sure if thats the best thing to be doing.
FTP I've gone from high 190s and currently up around 240w which is about 3.2w/kg so I'm making progress but the last 2 or 3 weeks it's started to plateau a little.
I've not got any intentions to race, mainly to improve my fitness, get faster on rides out and be able to keep pace with some better riders i ride with. I've dropped from 78 to 74kg since Christmas and likely a bit more to come mainly from cutting junk and alcohol.
I'm looking at the fitness freshness graphs on Strava which show positive fitness gains, but the fatigue and form graphs don't seem to correlate with how I'm feeling half of the time.
Just looking for some direction on what to focus on, to keep making those gains in power and endurance (if the pair can be improved at the same time).
Edited by Chicken Chaser on Thursday 8th March 21:51
Perhaps enter a sportive or Audax event that is a genuine challenge for you (longer/ more climbing than your usual rides).
That could give you an end goal to help fine tune your training. Sometimes an impending examination is what’s required to sharpen one’s focus.
It’s what Im planning on doing, because it’s been one of my worst winters in terms of getting out for weekend winter training!
That could give you an end goal to help fine tune your training. Sometimes an impending examination is what’s required to sharpen one’s focus.
It’s what Im planning on doing, because it’s been one of my worst winters in terms of getting out for weekend winter training!
I plan on doing that, i'm looking at getting an event sorted for April/May and seeing how I go. As the weather has been so bad (Snow/ice/rain) most of my winter has also been indoors so even local markers haven't really been tested yet. Looking to break out the summer carbon instead of the 35c shod Croix de fer which tends to slow me down a bit uphill!
I used to do a scattergun approach to my training, just what I felt like doing when home, be it Zwift or on the roads. Offshore I used some GCN and Sufferfest videos on a stationary bike. It would be 4-5 sessions a week regardless whether home or away. Power was 3.9W/kg. Fred Whitton done in under 7hrs.
When out on the bike I'd do plenty 2-3hr rides, hit most hills as hard as I could for varied length efforts. On the stationary bike, HIIT efforts.
At the start of this year I hired a coach, since I've been under her wing I feel better. My VO2max has increased according to my Garmin app. I have only had a FTP test once due to work which was to get a baseline number for her to start with. I feel I will better my last FTP test when I am tested again and I'll be disappointed if I don't.
But I am doing a lower volume and what feels lower intensity currently. I noticed now when going up a hill my HR has dropped for the same effort. I'll know more about my longer efforts as I head to Tenerife tomorrow, so I'll get another crack at Teide. I'll not break the 2hrs for the segment but I know what I did it in last year, so lets see how I go.
For me I feel it has proven to be worthwhile for my goals, of course not everyone will benefit as much. And for some it could be a waste of money, it'll depend on you and your coach.
When out on the bike I'd do plenty 2-3hr rides, hit most hills as hard as I could for varied length efforts. On the stationary bike, HIIT efforts.
At the start of this year I hired a coach, since I've been under her wing I feel better. My VO2max has increased according to my Garmin app. I have only had a FTP test once due to work which was to get a baseline number for her to start with. I feel I will better my last FTP test when I am tested again and I'll be disappointed if I don't.
But I am doing a lower volume and what feels lower intensity currently. I noticed now when going up a hill my HR has dropped for the same effort. I'll know more about my longer efforts as I head to Tenerife tomorrow, so I'll get another crack at Teide. I'll not break the 2hrs for the segment but I know what I did it in last year, so lets see how I go.
For me I feel it has proven to be worthwhile for my goals, of course not everyone will benefit as much. And for some it could be a waste of money, it'll depend on you and your coach.
I just do what I fancy, though my target is to be fitter, faster and stronger than last year.
I have made a great discovery in the past couple of years, mainly due to Strava. I ride with/casually race some local cyclists. I’m faster than most of them, but significantly slower than the fastest. Then I see the training stats, and I stop worry about it. Last year I rode about 6000km with about 80km of vertical ascent. My riding buddy did 25000lm and 300km of climbing. He is faster than me, now I know one good reason why.
So I do a couple of sessions on the trainer a week, usually sweet spot stuff and I run 2 or 3 times as well.
I’m enjoying being fairly fit, that’s good enough for me.
I have made a great discovery in the past couple of years, mainly due to Strava. I ride with/casually race some local cyclists. I’m faster than most of them, but significantly slower than the fastest. Then I see the training stats, and I stop worry about it. Last year I rode about 6000km with about 80km of vertical ascent. My riding buddy did 25000lm and 300km of climbing. He is faster than me, now I know one good reason why.
So I do a couple of sessions on the trainer a week, usually sweet spot stuff and I run 2 or 3 times as well.
I’m enjoying being fairly fit, that’s good enough for me.
Been loosely following the Sweet spot base plans on Trainerroad over the winter, getting into a bit of Vo2 max stuff now which is interesting. Had to take a few weeks off through illness though around Christmas and again at the start of February which was frustrating. Been adapting the plans slightly to take into account the running and swimming I'm doing too so I don't get too fatigued, but I've finally worked out how to fit it all in sustainably, and have reached a point where I'm recovering quickly enough to be able to do sessions on consecutive days.
I know from when I was running pretty seriously in my teens and early 20s that I do a lot better when I concentrate on quality rather than quantity so I've never been one to chase mileage targets. Everyone responds differently in that respect.
Since October my FTP has gone from 245w to 260w (virtual power so not an absolute figure but shows a relative improvement) and my weight has gone from nearly 85kg to a smidge under 82kg which is encouraging.
Aim is a sub 6 hour century in September and also to get sub 18 mins for a 5k run during the summer. The century is the priority though.
Next year I might have a go at a Duathlon. Wait and see how 2018 goes first though.
I know from when I was running pretty seriously in my teens and early 20s that I do a lot better when I concentrate on quality rather than quantity so I've never been one to chase mileage targets. Everyone responds differently in that respect.
Since October my FTP has gone from 245w to 260w (virtual power so not an absolute figure but shows a relative improvement) and my weight has gone from nearly 85kg to a smidge under 82kg which is encouraging.
Aim is a sub 6 hour century in September and also to get sub 18 mins for a 5k run during the summer. The century is the priority though.
Next year I might have a go at a Duathlon. Wait and see how 2018 goes first though.
Edited by lufbramatt on Friday 9th March 11:36
Edited by lufbramatt on Friday 9th March 11:37
A coach I used in the past posted this elsewhere and its really all you need to know
Rather than worry about structure (as that can be a doubled edged sword depending on what you are trying to achieve and your individual characteristics and situation), focus on applying the basic principles that work, provided you are healthy:
Riding more.
That means increasing how much riding you do, but in a sustainable manner. It might mean only adding 10-15-min per week until you've run out of available riding time. For most people starting out, just doing that over a few months will reap quite decent gains in fitness. Keep the increase in riding volume relatively modest - trying to do too much, too soon, too hard is the #1 mistake people make when "training".
Riding more frequently.
If you do 2 rides/week now, make it 3, and so on until you can not add any more rides. Perhaps limit it to 6 days/week max and 4-5 per week is quite a good frequency to aim for for someone relatively new. Keep in mind the advice about how much extra to add per week.
Consistency.
This is probably #1 when it comes to longer term development and improvement. Every time you take time away from riding means a loss of fitness and restarting is often hard as you are constantly battling just to get back what you had before let alone improve.
Recovery.
If feeling overly tired/fatigued then rest. If you increase your riding loads at a steady sustainable rate such as suggested above, you may find you rarely need to take any specific recovery time.
Food.
Keep an eye on what you eat. Any changes in weight need to be gradual and be the result of sustainable habitual change. Avoid "diets".
Sleep.
Practice good sleep hygiene - there is much important recovery and rebuilding that goes on when we sleep, and inadequate sleep leads to fatigue, stress and susceptibility to illness.
Intensity.
This is what drives the physiological development but there's no need to be overly hung up on it in the early days. Depending on what sort of rides you do, it's quite probable that you'll be getting enough higher intensity in the mix just by riding more and the fact that being relatively unfit means rides are harder anyway. Hills will do the trick for most and you can begin to introduce more challenging routes into your routine once your basic fitness picks up. Sometimes riding with others will also do this, although it can be a bit of a mixed bag as many group rides are ill disciplined.
Goals.
Have something to aim for as this can help with motivation when you need it.
Fun.
Make sure that you are enjoying whatever it is that you do as a motivated rider will improve more and perform better than one who is getting bored or not enjoying the training/riding they are doing. There are many ways to achieve this and it'll be different for everyone. It can be riding with others, or riding certain routes, or using motivational aids when training indoors, or riding certain bikes.
Rather than worry about structure (as that can be a doubled edged sword depending on what you are trying to achieve and your individual characteristics and situation), focus on applying the basic principles that work, provided you are healthy:
Riding more.
That means increasing how much riding you do, but in a sustainable manner. It might mean only adding 10-15-min per week until you've run out of available riding time. For most people starting out, just doing that over a few months will reap quite decent gains in fitness. Keep the increase in riding volume relatively modest - trying to do too much, too soon, too hard is the #1 mistake people make when "training".
Riding more frequently.
If you do 2 rides/week now, make it 3, and so on until you can not add any more rides. Perhaps limit it to 6 days/week max and 4-5 per week is quite a good frequency to aim for for someone relatively new. Keep in mind the advice about how much extra to add per week.
Consistency.
This is probably #1 when it comes to longer term development and improvement. Every time you take time away from riding means a loss of fitness and restarting is often hard as you are constantly battling just to get back what you had before let alone improve.
Recovery.
If feeling overly tired/fatigued then rest. If you increase your riding loads at a steady sustainable rate such as suggested above, you may find you rarely need to take any specific recovery time.
Food.
Keep an eye on what you eat. Any changes in weight need to be gradual and be the result of sustainable habitual change. Avoid "diets".
Sleep.
Practice good sleep hygiene - there is much important recovery and rebuilding that goes on when we sleep, and inadequate sleep leads to fatigue, stress and susceptibility to illness.
Intensity.
This is what drives the physiological development but there's no need to be overly hung up on it in the early days. Depending on what sort of rides you do, it's quite probable that you'll be getting enough higher intensity in the mix just by riding more and the fact that being relatively unfit means rides are harder anyway. Hills will do the trick for most and you can begin to introduce more challenging routes into your routine once your basic fitness picks up. Sometimes riding with others will also do this, although it can be a bit of a mixed bag as many group rides are ill disciplined.
Goals.
Have something to aim for as this can help with motivation when you need it.
Fun.
Make sure that you are enjoying whatever it is that you do as a motivated rider will improve more and perform better than one who is getting bored or not enjoying the training/riding they are doing. There are many ways to achieve this and it'll be different for everyone. It can be riding with others, or riding certain routes, or using motivational aids when training indoors, or riding certain bikes.
lufbramatt said:
Been loosely following the Sweet spot base plans on Trainerroad over the winter, getting into a bit of Vo2 max stuff now which is interesting. Had to take a few weeks off through illness though around Christmas and again at the start of February which was frustrating. Been adapting the plans slightly to take into account the running and swimming I'm doing too so I don't get too fatigued, but I've finally worked out how to fit it all in sustainably, and have reached a point where I'm recovering quickly enough to be able to do sessions on consecutive days.
I know from when I was running pretty seriously in my teens and early 20s that I do a lot better when I concentrate on quality rather than quantity so I've never been one to chase mileage targets. Everyone responds differently in that respect.
Since October my FTP has gone from 245w to 260w (virtual power so not an absolute figure but shows a relative improvement) and my weight has gone from nearly 85kg to a smidge under 82kg which is encouraging.
Aim is a sub 6 hour century in September and also to get sub 18 mins for a 5k run during the summer. The century is the priority though.
Next year I might have a go at a Duathlon. Wait and see how 2018 goes first though.
If you can run 18 min 5k at that weight you should be able to do a LOT more watts on a bike than those numbers.I know from when I was running pretty seriously in my teens and early 20s that I do a lot better when I concentrate on quality rather than quantity so I've never been one to chase mileage targets. Everyone responds differently in that respect.
Since October my FTP has gone from 245w to 260w (virtual power so not an absolute figure but shows a relative improvement) and my weight has gone from nearly 85kg to a smidge under 82kg which is encouraging.
Aim is a sub 6 hour century in September and also to get sub 18 mins for a 5k run during the summer. The century is the priority though.
Next year I might have a go at a Duathlon. Wait and see how 2018 goes first though.
Edited by lufbramatt on Friday 9th March 11:36
Edited by lufbramatt on Friday 9th March 11:37
If people are any good then really just mixed riding will see them improve quite quickly.
Interesting. I can't do 18 mins/5k at the moment. Have done 20 mins dead recently on a lunchtime tempo run. Those 2 minutes are quite a big chunk.
I am due to do an FTP test, I started one last week but ended up bailing after 10 mins as I was tired, I'd gone out too hard and my head wasn't in the right place.
As I say those numbers are from a Kinetic road machine using virtual power so can't compare them to a power meter.
I am due to do an FTP test, I started one last week but ended up bailing after 10 mins as I was tired, I'd gone out too hard and my head wasn't in the right place.
As I say those numbers are from a Kinetic road machine using virtual power so can't compare them to a power meter.
Edited by lufbramatt on Friday 9th March 12:43
Daveyraveygravey said:
Are we mixing up cycling and running here?
They help each other right? Usually with me, the faster I get with my running the faster I am with cycling. The running is harder, so using HR zones;
Easy pace:
Running: HR133/9mm
Cycling: HR110/20mph
Tempo pace:
Running: HR155/7:30mm
Cycling: HR130/21mph
Race:
Running: HR175/6:30
Cycling: HR150/22mph
Daveyraveygravey said:
Someone was talking about 18 mins for 5K which must be running and then someone else said 100m/21 somethings.
I think they were trying to equate equivalent running fitness to cycle. It's not easy to do, as beyond a basic level of fitness each one is fairly specific to train for, especially the 5k that's just short of near all out 'sprint', maybe 95% max HRM.I've recently started doing some turbotrainer work (intervals of various lengths) in an attempt to improve at time trial 10s and XC races. I don't have a power meter.
I do a weekly mtb club night ride, commute to work 3x per week and have resumed longer Sunday morning rides.
The people I know who are good cyclists (mostly) do a lot of mileage. One is just naturally good and extremely focused, very good at time trials.
I'm 82kg, 40 years old and can do a 19:00 5K run, with only about 5-10 miles a week and no specific training (relying on general strength and Cv fitness, probably) I'm up near the front if I do the local Park Run or National Trust 10k trail. I suffer ongoing calf issues so can't do much running, though...
I am, frustratingly however, relatively rubbish at TT 10s (albeit I was on a road bike with aero bars) and not that great at MTB XC races.
I do a weekly mtb club night ride, commute to work 3x per week and have resumed longer Sunday morning rides.
The people I know who are good cyclists (mostly) do a lot of mileage. One is just naturally good and extremely focused, very good at time trials.
I'm 82kg, 40 years old and can do a 19:00 5K run, with only about 5-10 miles a week and no specific training (relying on general strength and Cv fitness, probably) I'm up near the front if I do the local Park Run or National Trust 10k trail. I suffer ongoing calf issues so can't do much running, though...
I am, frustratingly however, relatively rubbish at TT 10s (albeit I was on a road bike with aero bars) and not that great at MTB XC races.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 13th March 20:36
Over the winter I commute 7 ish miles each way, rain or shine, on an old, heavy mountainbike, climbing at least 400 feet each way. Some days I'm tired, so I wobble along a bit, but mostly I try to work at a relatively steady effort level, roughly correlating to UT2 from the old rowing days.
If see someone up the road, I chase them down. If someone catches me up, I try to stick with them. I always push a bit harder up the hills.
My approach may be a little less scientific than some, but it gives me a reasonable base for the summer, and I feel like I'm flying changing to an old aluminium Trek when the roads dry out. Next winter I might go back to 2 or 3 1hr turbo sessions a week as well, but the new puppy this winter means I couldn't be arsed.
If see someone up the road, I chase them down. If someone catches me up, I try to stick with them. I always push a bit harder up the hills.
My approach may be a little less scientific than some, but it gives me a reasonable base for the summer, and I feel like I'm flying changing to an old aluminium Trek when the roads dry out. Next winter I might go back to 2 or 3 1hr turbo sessions a week as well, but the new puppy this winter means I couldn't be arsed.
I've hit a plateau; my riding is a mixture of off road and on; I ride to work at least twice a week an hour each way, and at least a 3 hour ride at the weekend. I try to climb 8,000m a month, and when the wind is in the right direction I'll have a go at pbs. Most of the climbing is done on the off road commutes, so I see these as "hard" rides so one road commute a week used to be "easy".
This is heart rate training, I don't have a power meter. I now make the road rides intervals; I'm attempting three weeks with one tempo interval session and one lactate threshold. I'm only on week 2 so it's too early to say if there are any benefits, but it gives you something else to think about. You have to try and pick a route where the junctions are in the recovery sessions, and you have to ride a bit differently. If you're supposed to be in z4 or 5 you have to pedal hard downhill, and then because of the lag you might have to roll up the hill part of the way!
This is heart rate training, I don't have a power meter. I now make the road rides intervals; I'm attempting three weeks with one tempo interval session and one lactate threshold. I'm only on week 2 so it's too early to say if there are any benefits, but it gives you something else to think about. You have to try and pick a route where the junctions are in the recovery sessions, and you have to ride a bit differently. If you're supposed to be in z4 or 5 you have to pedal hard downhill, and then because of the lag you might have to roll up the hill part of the way!
I seem to have plateau'd a bit these last couple of weeks, and I think its likely due to me giving myself too many gaps between sessions. I've been interested in finding out what TSS is, and how it correlates to fitness and it seems that based on Strava TSS scores, then i've not done enough to stress myself to make the significant gains I was a few weeks back. I did get tired a few weeks ago but these last couple of weeks have been slightly lighter in time on bike, even if the intensity has still been there whilst on it.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff