Cyclists view on peloton on public road?
Discussion
So today I had an annual check at a hospital 30 miles from home that is accessed via some fairly fast country lanes.
As sometimes happens the appointment ran over and I was about 2 hrs longer than expected.
On the way back down the lanes I came up to a slow moving queue. About 1/2 a mile ahead was basically a peloton of about 30 bikes , motorcycle up front, one at the rear and a support van trailing the lot.
Now I'm all for waiting behind cyclists and accept we all share the road, but the trail went along the main single lane route that the majority of cars were on, the result being a further 20 minutes of stuck in the queue - and no there were no short cuts or alternative routes....
The only reason I got past was a long downhill stretch, though I could tell the motorcycle riders were not impressed that someone had overtaken.
My question is - what is an acceptable amount of time to sit behind a slow(er) moving queue or what should the etiquette be when there is a large number of vehicles being held up?
As sometimes happens the appointment ran over and I was about 2 hrs longer than expected.
On the way back down the lanes I came up to a slow moving queue. About 1/2 a mile ahead was basically a peloton of about 30 bikes , motorcycle up front, one at the rear and a support van trailing the lot.
Now I'm all for waiting behind cyclists and accept we all share the road, but the trail went along the main single lane route that the majority of cars were on, the result being a further 20 minutes of stuck in the queue - and no there were no short cuts or alternative routes....
The only reason I got past was a long downhill stretch, though I could tell the motorcycle riders were not impressed that someone had overtaken.
My question is - what is an acceptable amount of time to sit behind a slow(er) moving queue or what should the etiquette be when there is a large number of vehicles being held up?
ExVantagemech.. said:
... the result being a further 20 minutes of stuck in the queue -
Only you weren't "stuck" since you were still moving, albeit probably slower than if other road users weren't there. Believe me it took me 2 hours to drive the 20miles home tonight. Accidents, road works, closed roads, weight of traffic. Hardly any cyclists.Remember, the biggest problem to traffic, is OTHER cars.
ExVantagemech.. said:
.The only reason I got past was a long downhill stretch, though I could tell the motorcycle riders were not impressed that someone had overtaken.
30 riders and support riders indicate to me that it's a sanctioned event. Maybe a charity ride. Show us the road you overtook them at. And what sort of speed were you doing so? If they're doing roughtly 20ish. Blasting past at 60 on a single lane carriageway is excessive and will result in unimpressed outriders. 40 would have been just as safe.
ExVantagemech.. said:
... My question is - what is an acceptable amount of time to sit behind a slow(er) moving queue or what should the etiquette be when there is a large number of vehicles being held up?
Until it is sensible/safe to pass. Just like a Horse or slow moving driver. No one is saying NEVER overtake. Just be normal with it!Sadly too many f
king idiots. See a bike and MUST MUST MUST! pass NOW NOW NOW! So end up being dangerous, instead of waiting 10 seconds, assessing things and being sensible. The amount of people that pass me as I roll up to traffic lights 15m ahead, then cut in front of me is ridiculous at a red light. But they just HAVE to get past. Even though, if they just rolled along behind me for 5 seconds, the lights MAY have changed by then anyway!Rich, your response read as a bit aggressive to me. Not sure it's called for given the OP's reasonable questions?
Anyway, I get your frustration of being slowed behind a large group. It sounds like it was probably an open road race as it was supported by the cars/bikes. I'm guessing they all had numbers on their backs?
There are many types of bike racing, one of which is open road focused. Unfortunately it means sharing the road, I think everyone just has to have a bit of give and take.
I've been hit twice by cars but it doesn't really put me off, let's just be mutually respectful and agree horses are the real enemy
Anyway, I get your frustration of being slowed behind a large group. It sounds like it was probably an open road race as it was supported by the cars/bikes. I'm guessing they all had numbers on their backs?
There are many types of bike racing, one of which is open road focused. Unfortunately it means sharing the road, I think everyone just has to have a bit of give and take.
I've been hit twice by cars but it doesn't really put me off, let's just be mutually respectful and agree horses are the real enemy
No numbers, just blue jackets on the riders. My overtake was on a road that used to be NSL but parts have been dropped to 50. The overtake was made more dangerous due to the van, motorcycle and peloton leaving a considerable gap - probably 60 - 100 ft between each other, so even if the view was clear, the manoeuvre needed 1/4 to 1/2 mile of clear road while getting past with them at 20/30 mph. This also meant I ended up behind their lead car, a Landy and had to wait to pass that. Indeed, if I had not got past I would have had a further couple of uphill miles behind them as the road then climbs into some tight bends.
I'm not having a go at the riders, they were all going pretty quick, but perhaps the question is at what point do you say " let's stop and let this queue pass". Below is the road I overtook on, obviously oncoming traffic was an issue as well.
I'm not having a go at the riders, they were all going pretty quick, but perhaps the question is at what point do you say " let's stop and let this queue pass". Below is the road I overtook on, obviously oncoming traffic was an issue as well.
ExVantagemech.. said:
On the way back down the lanes I came up to a slow moving queue. About 1/2 a mile ahead was basically a peloton of about 30 bikes , motorcycle up front, one at the rear and a support van trailing the lot.
Now I'm all for waiting behind cyclists and accept we all share the road, but the trail went along the main single lane route that the majority of cars were on, the result being a further 20 minutes of stuck in the queue - and no there were no short cuts or alternative routes....
I'm prejudiced here because I'm a rider & do a fair bit of mileage on country roads. The event you describe sounds like a charity ride rather than a race because a bunch of 30 riders would be moving at 25+mph and realistically on a country lane that's not too bad for a car driver. Slower than you might like but you're still moving along at a reasonable pace for a lane and faster than you would be behind a tractor+trailer or HGV.Now I'm all for waiting behind cyclists and accept we all share the road, but the trail went along the main single lane route that the majority of cars were on, the result being a further 20 minutes of stuck in the queue - and no there were no short cuts or alternative routes....
If it was a charity ride then the organisers had a problem. Do they use A roads and hold up cars, vans & lorries out on their daily jobs, or do they go for country lanes where traffic is lighter with fewer HGVs to upset ? They'd go for minimum disruption so you can understand why they are there. You'd be even more annoyed if they were cluttering up the A roads. (and I'd be the same)
Having said that I would have expected the organisers to have a set of rules where the outriders/support car ensure they're not disrupting the public because otherwise they'll just lose support over the longer term. A well organised charity ride will stagger the start times, enforce the "no more than 2 abreast and single file on B roads" rules and the marshals should be enforcing that.
ExVantagemech.. said:
The only reason I got past was a long downhill stretch, though I could tell the motorcycle riders were not impressed that someone had overtaken.
My question is - what is an acceptable amount of time to sit behind a slow(er) moving queue or what should the etiquette be when there is a large number of vehicles being held up?
I'm not surprised they were unimpressed. Try riding a bike on a country lane and having someone belt past at 20/30mph faster than you're doing and you'll understand why as well. If you can leave a metre or more between you and the rider then ok, but if it was a singletrack lane then there's rarely that much room to pass.My question is - what is an acceptable amount of time to sit behind a slow(er) moving queue or what should the etiquette be when there is a large number of vehicles being held up?
Annoying though it is, there isn't an "acceptable time" before passing anything, it is what it is. You pass when it's safe to do so, regardless of whether it's a push bike, horse, tractor, lorry or whatever. Personally I think there's an obligation on anyone holding up a queue for a couple of miles to pull over but not everyone thinks the same way.
Sounds like a charity bike ride.
A club run or non-pro racing team will rarely, if ever, have a support vehicle, and their experience will mean they go into single line to let traffic flow (though this is not necessarily easier or safer for either parties).
The charity / company rides tend to have a couple of cars. The riders are rarely experienced and will sit in a group, often strung out - the road is a scary place if the last time you rode a bike Betamax was just appearing.
If you enjoy irony, I was in a chaingang last summer, that was held up by, you guessed it, a slow moving group of charity riders with a car front and back!
It may have been a sanctioned race or charity ride but it should also take in consideration other road users if not held on a closed road. Difficult to judge depends on the situation. I am a cyclist myself and don’t understand the victimisation that falls on cyclists. For one I always let cars pass by, don’t cycle side by side it it means impeding the road and if on a large group on a country lane try to break the group so it is easier for motorists to pass us.
It’s all well saying it does not matter sitting behind the cyclists but if you can drive at 40-50mph you don’t want to be slowed and drive at 20. Similarly I bet if a group of cyclists was “held up” by a slower convoy and was unable to pass that convoy they would be moaning and frustrated about it in the same way drivers are.
If your overtake was safe you did well, they could have facilitated, after all you had a job to go they were, by the looks of it, having a leisure amateur race/ride, non professional.
It’s all well saying it does not matter sitting behind the cyclists but if you can drive at 40-50mph you don’t want to be slowed and drive at 20. Similarly I bet if a group of cyclists was “held up” by a slower convoy and was unable to pass that convoy they would be moaning and frustrated about it in the same way drivers are.
If your overtake was safe you did well, they could have facilitated, after all you had a job to go they were, by the looks of it, having a leisure amateur race/ride, non professional.
How long do you wait behind slow moving traffic? The answer is always: until it’s safe to pass.
Have I been doing wrong all these years? Should I set my stopwatch and after 15 minutes just go for it regardless of oncoming traffic and my 2 week old son in the back seat? Lol.
If it was safe then you did the right thing and have nothing to worry about.
In terms of ‘etiquette’, it depends on the circumstances. It sounds like it was a race, in which case it is unreasonable to expect them to halt proceedings just because 25mph isn’t enough for the road users behind. They will turn off eventually as races generally take place on relatively short circuits of road to ensure that no one is delayed significantly - 20 minutes seems a very long time, we’re you really behind them for over 8 miles? The alternative is to close the road.
If it wasn’t a race Then there is no formal etiquette so some discretion would need to be applied.
Edit: I don't think this could have been a charity event if they were doing 20-30mph. Would have been more like 15mph or less. If they didn't have numbers perhaps it was some sort of race prep training for novices?
Have I been doing wrong all these years? Should I set my stopwatch and after 15 minutes just go for it regardless of oncoming traffic and my 2 week old son in the back seat? Lol.
If it was safe then you did the right thing and have nothing to worry about.
In terms of ‘etiquette’, it depends on the circumstances. It sounds like it was a race, in which case it is unreasonable to expect them to halt proceedings just because 25mph isn’t enough for the road users behind. They will turn off eventually as races generally take place on relatively short circuits of road to ensure that no one is delayed significantly - 20 minutes seems a very long time, we’re you really behind them for over 8 miles? The alternative is to close the road.
If it wasn’t a race Then there is no formal etiquette so some discretion would need to be applied.
Edit: I don't think this could have been a charity event if they were doing 20-30mph. Would have been more like 15mph or less. If they didn't have numbers perhaps it was some sort of race prep training for novices?
Edited by NatAsp on Friday 13th April 08:28
Jacobyte said:
ExVantagemech.. said:
Banana Boy said:
What did you miss out on because of the 15-20 minute delay?
Getting into work on time.... after being held up for 2 hrs at an appointment. ??As for the speed, that was the downhill.
It went to walking pace up some fairly long A roads hence the time behind them where at junctions more cars joined the back of the queue.
Though in my defence for the overtake, how should my speed differentiate from that of the cars coming the other way? Why would I do say 40 as it's was deemed aafe, where the opposite direction are coming at 60?
Anyway there were no waved fists, bikes in hedges or rabbits killed.
To be fair it looked quite fun, I've just bought a new road bike to get back some sort of fitness, looked safer doing this than a lone rider on a lane!
The favourite trick of one old bd at our local road race is to park his car in the quiet rural road we use as a hazard, (despite having a double drive), then cut his hawthorn hedge.
This is despite us sending a thank you letter to the residents of the little village each time, making a donation to the village hall and every other bugger coming to the end of their garden to wave and have a cheeky drink on a Sunday morning...
The last time he did it the traffic officer who'd come to watch did him for inconsiderate driving or some such.
Back to the OP - a race would have a lot more than a van, at least 3 cars, first aid etc.
Were the moto's in orange viz - i.e. National Escort Group? They're dead good they are.
Still sounds like a sponsored ride in aid of thirsty mandrills or whatever.
d at our local road race is to park his car in the quiet rural road we use as a hazard, (despite having a double drive), then cut his hawthorn hedge. This is despite us sending a thank you letter to the residents of the little village each time, making a donation to the village hall and every other bugger coming to the end of their garden to wave and have a cheeky drink on a Sunday morning...
The last time he did it the traffic officer who'd come to watch did him for inconsiderate driving or some such.
Back to the OP - a race would have a lot more than a van, at least 3 cars, first aid etc.
Were the moto's in orange viz - i.e. National Escort Group? They're dead good they are.
Still sounds like a sponsored ride in aid of thirsty mandrills or whatever.
Got a good feeling that you were behind the recce for Hot Chillees London to Paris event.
To be fair, Id probably be a bit frustrated behind this even as a keen cyclist. Not a charity event. Not a properly organised race. Not a few people out on a club ride, but a commercial venture self policing with support vehicles.
To be fair, Id probably be a bit frustrated behind this even as a keen cyclist. Not a charity event. Not a properly organised race. Not a few people out on a club ride, but a commercial venture self policing with support vehicles.
As a cyclist, I'm a bit conflicted about this also...
Ultimately, they have as much of a right to use the road as you do however I know if I was in my car, I'd also be frustrated with that number of cyclists concentrated along a single stretch. They were making reasonable progress though and, as already mentioned, it does appear that they've attempted to limit the potential disruption to traffic by using a B road.
Hmm, not sure.
Ultimately, they have as much of a right to use the road as you do however I know if I was in my car, I'd also be frustrated with that number of cyclists concentrated along a single stretch. They were making reasonable progress though and, as already mentioned, it does appear that they've attempted to limit the potential disruption to traffic by using a B road.
Hmm, not sure.
ExVantagemech.. said:
Ha ha, no I accept the NHS gives you a guideline time to be seen.. my question was more on etiquette than anything else.
Indeed, it's just one of those things. It's very rare, so you just happened to come across them at a disproportionately (for you) unhelpful time/place. I'll be doing a 60 mile ride tomorrow in a peloton of 2. No outriders for us though, and we'll blend into farm/field entrances if anyone's behind us.
smifffymoto said:
I cycle and they piss me off.I am in leafy Cheshire and some weekends you can encounter in excess of 50 riders strung out over a km,with the peleton having 30 riders.
I ride a bicycle (funny the way we have to declare this!) and I get annoyed by informal club rides where they are strung out in little groups along a long stretch of road, impossible to pass at all as they don't leave gaps to overtake safely and pull back in. I went past a few geriatric riders in a spread out group this weekend and top speed for most of them was no more than 9mph on the flat. I overtook as something like 15 mph, staring accusingly through my passenger window as I went by them! 
I'm a cyclist, used to race but more recreational now. I know it's annoying but the charity ride I can understand though the organisers should have the common sense to know when to pull over and let the queues past.
Worst I find is the races on public roads. I've been out on a twisty A-road near me a few times (both in car and on bike) coming round a corner on my side to be confronted by a group going hell for leather towards me around 3 or 4 abreast and strung out across both lanes. They are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to ride in that manner.
Worst I find is the races on public roads. I've been out on a twisty A-road near me a few times (both in car and on bike) coming round a corner on my side to be confronted by a group going hell for leather towards me around 3 or 4 abreast and strung out across both lanes. They are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to ride in that manner.
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