Am I doing it wrong?
Discussion
So, the last few months I have been trying to cycle to work at least once a week instead of taking my motorbike. Mainly to stay fit, but it saves wear and running costs on the motorbike too of course.
However, I am having serious second thoughts about doing the cycle to work again after yesterday's performance, and 3 near-death experiences.
I cross London West to East, and it involves about 1hr 10 mins each way on busy roads like the A3 and A202, so it's never going to be a walk (cycle) in the park.
However, I have been completely unprepared for the number of people pulling this one particular manoeuvre on me, which is overtaking half-heartedly and then turning left across my path. Buses do a similar thing which is half-overtake and then pull into bus stops leaving you trapped between the bus and the kerb. I'm not exaggerating when I say it terrifies me and happens with shocking frequency.
This type of manoeuvre isn't one you ever face when on a motorbike. I'm well conditioned to people pulling out on me from side-roads though... although of course on a bicycle you have no horn or powerful lights to let them know you are there.
So, what do I do? Give up cycling to work? Pick a back-roads route that takes much longer but has less buses? Or adjust my riding in some way? If so, what can I do to protect myself from the idiots?
However, I am having serious second thoughts about doing the cycle to work again after yesterday's performance, and 3 near-death experiences.
I cross London West to East, and it involves about 1hr 10 mins each way on busy roads like the A3 and A202, so it's never going to be a walk (cycle) in the park.
However, I have been completely unprepared for the number of people pulling this one particular manoeuvre on me, which is overtaking half-heartedly and then turning left across my path. Buses do a similar thing which is half-overtake and then pull into bus stops leaving you trapped between the bus and the kerb. I'm not exaggerating when I say it terrifies me and happens with shocking frequency.
This type of manoeuvre isn't one you ever face when on a motorbike. I'm well conditioned to people pulling out on me from side-roads though... although of course on a bicycle you have no horn or powerful lights to let them know you are there.
So, what do I do? Give up cycling to work? Pick a back-roads route that takes much longer but has less buses? Or adjust my riding in some way? If so, what can I do to protect myself from the idiots?
Edited by Mr Gear on Wednesday 29th July 10:04
It seems that most motorists see cyclists as something they must pass as soon as is physically possible, whatever the cost, rather than treating them as just another road user. My cycle to work is nowhere near as heroic but I've still had several near misses, mostly due to people overtaking too close and pulling in too soon, either for a turn or traffic island. They also seem to ignore right signals, I can be 50m from the turning, 2/3rds the way towards the centre-line with my arm firmly out and they'll still overtake 1mm from me and then swerve back in before the island only to have to stop for a vehicle coming from the right (mini roundabout in this case).
The trick for me seems to be gain a dominating road position well in advance of the turning to give drivers plenty of notice of your intentions.
The trick for me seems to be gain a dominating road position well in advance of the turning to give drivers plenty of notice of your intentions.
You are not doing it wrong, this does happen - The best thing I find is to ride 2 feet away from the curb - Then a vechile has to make sure they can get past you - like they would on a motorbike. Don't give up!!! And it gives you a bit more space to take action if needed. Another idea is to keep your rear
Also when going between two parked cars, don't head back to the curb after passing the fiorst car, take a bee line to where you would ride by to the next car.
Oh and get one of these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tobar-Ltd-Classic-Bike-Hor...
Also when going between two parked cars, don't head back to the curb after passing the fiorst car, take a bee line to where you would ride by to the next car.
Oh and get one of these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tobar-Ltd-Classic-Bike-Hor...
Cheers for the support guys, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'll try some different routes, but I guess also knowledge of the routes is also important. Where the bus-stops and dangerous turnings etc are...
P.s. did you see the "frequently bought together" item on this page?
P.s. did you see the "frequently bought together" item on this page?
Bounty Hunter said:
Ha ha! That would make my bike look AWESOME!Keep at it. I also ride a motorcycle and as other posters have said treat the bike more like a car / motorcycle re positioning. That said any ride into or through London is going to be interesting. I commute in from Southgate into the City and was recently totalled on my bicycle in what I would have classed a "safer" part of my journey and my initial thought was thank God I wasn't on my motorcycle as I'd probably have been seriously injured.
I generally treat every other road user in London with sceptism and assume they are going to do something stupid (especially bendy bus drivers), makes for a slower but safer ride. However it always amazes me some of the antics of other bicycle users as well. My personal favorite are those peddling around London with I-pods stuffed in their ears, bloody dangerous in my opinion.
I generally treat every other road user in London with sceptism and assume they are going to do something stupid (especially bendy bus drivers), makes for a slower but safer ride. However it always amazes me some of the antics of other bicycle users as well. My personal favorite are those peddling around London with I-pods stuffed in their ears, bloody dangerous in my opinion.
As others have said (I'm not a london cyclist - Bath and Cornwall so quite different) make sure you position yourself a long way from the curb, if you make it difficult for them to get past without giving it a second thought then they're less likely to try stupid manoevers and therefore cut you up. It also gives you escape space to your left rather than going straight into the curb!
HTH and don't give up
HTH and don't give up
Some good advice. I tend to lean towards aggresive positioning of my bike - which works in the city part of my commute (Chester) - but when I am on the back roads I am sure a target appears on my back!
TBH, I think most cars expect you to travel at 10mph not 20 + mph and scare themselves as much as they scare us!
TBH, I think most cars expect you to travel at 10mph not 20 + mph and scare themselves as much as they scare us!
Matt H said:
TBH, I think most cars expect you to travel at 10mph not 20 + mph and scare themselves as much as they scare us!
I think this is very true. They try to treat you as if you are standing still, but on the flat I'll be doing about 25mph, which if a bus is passing at 30mph it takes an awfully long time to get past. Same goes for cars about to pull out of side roads... they take one look at you and it's totally inconceivable to them that you can be crashing into their side just 2 seconds later.Mr Gear said:
mouseymousey said:
Are you wearing something highly visible when on your commute?
No. And although I loathe the idea, I accept that it is probably important.As has been stated, there's no "right" answer. All you can do is make yourself as visible as possible and not invite dodgy overtakes by riding right in the gutter.
Personally I use a bright flashing rear light all year round irrespective of the weather / daylight and a bright front light in anything other than full midday sun.
Doesn't stop the numpties, though. A lot of drivers seem to fixate on overtaking bikes to the extent that they completely ignore the rest of the road & traffic until they get past. My regular "favourite" is to be overtaken on the narrowest stretch of road with no margin and oncoming traffic when clearly there is a several-hundred yard clear gap beyond the oncoming vehicle (and the road widens just for good measure). Made even better by the recent surface dressing on this particular road; as soon as the overtaker leaves the "normal" driving line they generate 30mph+ showers of gravel.
Personally I use a bright flashing rear light all year round irrespective of the weather / daylight and a bright front light in anything other than full midday sun.
Doesn't stop the numpties, though. A lot of drivers seem to fixate on overtaking bikes to the extent that they completely ignore the rest of the road & traffic until they get past. My regular "favourite" is to be overtaken on the narrowest stretch of road with no margin and oncoming traffic when clearly there is a several-hundred yard clear gap beyond the oncoming vehicle (and the road widens just for good measure). Made even better by the recent surface dressing on this particular road; as soon as the overtaker leaves the "normal" driving line they generate 30mph+ showers of gravel.
It sounds like you are riding sensibly to me.
I ride with a couple of these lights on the front during daylight(as well as a large superbright rear led light):
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?pro...
I make my bike as visible as possible too with brightly coloured tyres, bars and paintwork. You can get some good brightly coloured 'technical sportswear' from the likes of wiggle, probikekit, Evans etc that is much less 'nerdy' than the traditional day-glo yellow waistcoat (yuk). I find other road users seem to be more aware/considerate of your speed and position if you are more 'noticable' in the first place.
Generally I ride about 3ft from the curb or line of parked cars but when I'm in a line of dense traffic that is moving slowly (slower than my cruising speed of say, 20-25mph) I tend to ride in the middle of the lane.(unless there is a cycle lane on the left) in the same position as a car but obviously pull back over to the left (unless turning or filtering right) as the speed starts to increase so as not to impede the progress of others. This way you are more visible and less likely to have a car cut you up.
When people see you waiting patiently in a que as they are they are more likely to grant you the position and status of another vehicle.
Lastly, have you had a look on www.sustrans.co.uk for any alternative routes?
I ride with a couple of these lights on the front during daylight(as well as a large superbright rear led light):
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?pro...
I make my bike as visible as possible too with brightly coloured tyres, bars and paintwork. You can get some good brightly coloured 'technical sportswear' from the likes of wiggle, probikekit, Evans etc that is much less 'nerdy' than the traditional day-glo yellow waistcoat (yuk). I find other road users seem to be more aware/considerate of your speed and position if you are more 'noticable' in the first place.
Generally I ride about 3ft from the curb or line of parked cars but when I'm in a line of dense traffic that is moving slowly (slower than my cruising speed of say, 20-25mph) I tend to ride in the middle of the lane.(unless there is a cycle lane on the left) in the same position as a car but obviously pull back over to the left (unless turning or filtering right) as the speed starts to increase so as not to impede the progress of others. This way you are more visible and less likely to have a car cut you up.
When people see you waiting patiently in a que as they are they are more likely to grant you the position and status of another vehicle.
Lastly, have you had a look on www.sustrans.co.uk for any alternative routes?
Roman said:
Lastly, have you had a look on www.sustrans.co.uk for any alternative routes?
That link is quite useful, cheers. It shows cycle paths that run parallel to the route I currently use. I'll have to investigate to see how useful they are.Matt H said:
I tend to lean towards aggresive positioning of my bike
I'm very aggresive when on my bike. I makes sure I position myself on the road so that a car has to make a big effort to overtake when I ride around town. Most of the time I'm quicker anyway(I always stop for reds) and make more progress than the 4 wheelers so it's not until the outskirts that they reovertake. And I always pull in front of the first car at a set of traffic lights rather than sit beside it.My wife had a car turn an unindicated left on her this afternoon when she was beside it and she had to go with the car and make the turn otherwise she would have been crushed/knocked off. Later this afternoon she fell of while turning round to talk to me! She steered into the verge and came a cropper on some nice soft grass. I didn't laugh..... much
Mr Gear said:
Cheers for the support guys, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'll try some different routes, but I guess also knowledge of the routes is also important. Where the bus-stops and dangerous turnings etc are...
P.s. did you see the "frequently bought together" item on this page?
Ha ha! - This is what you REALLY need - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr3OfiOSYjU or this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRT_2NdzSi0P.s. did you see the "frequently bought together" item on this page?
Bounty Hunter said:
Ha ha! That would make my bike look AWESOME!Or back to the real wold something like this? - http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/src/froogle/cid/6SQ5ENS...
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