SPD's and knee pain
Discussion
So I think i've got totally shagged knees 
I switched to SPD-SL about 3-4 months ago, and while initially (i.e. for the first 2 or three rides) I got occassional sharp pain in my knees I thought nothing of it and just carried on.
I do other sport which absolutely knackers my knees (another story) so when I started to develop semi-permanent pain behind my kneecaps about a month and a bit ago I assumed it was that.
I've now realised that the pain is actually correlated with my time on the bike, so the pedals are in the firing line.
Question 1: what are the chances that I've done permanent damage to myself by using poorly aligned/unsuitable pedals? (I ride a 30 mile round trip commute 4 days a week). I'm switching back to platforms for 2 weeks to see what happens, and am going to see a knee specialist who will probably tell me it's game over. I hate platforms though, so..
Question 2: I'm now thinking of doing a full bike fitment and cleat alignment which is going to cost over £100. Has anyone had this done and was it worth it. That's about a 1/4 of the complete cost of my commuter bike after all... Or is there a reliable way of doing it yourself (cleat alignment, seat height, posture etc).
Cheers,
Ben
I switched to SPD-SL about 3-4 months ago, and while initially (i.e. for the first 2 or three rides) I got occassional sharp pain in my knees I thought nothing of it and just carried on.I do other sport which absolutely knackers my knees (another story) so when I started to develop semi-permanent pain behind my kneecaps about a month and a bit ago I assumed it was that.
I've now realised that the pain is actually correlated with my time on the bike, so the pedals are in the firing line.
Question 1: what are the chances that I've done permanent damage to myself by using poorly aligned/unsuitable pedals? (I ride a 30 mile round trip commute 4 days a week). I'm switching back to platforms for 2 weeks to see what happens, and am going to see a knee specialist who will probably tell me it's game over. I hate platforms though, so..
Question 2: I'm now thinking of doing a full bike fitment and cleat alignment which is going to cost over £100. Has anyone had this done and was it worth it. That's about a 1/4 of the complete cost of my commuter bike after all... Or is there a reliable way of doing it yourself (cleat alignment, seat height, posture etc).
Cheers,
Ben
I've never used them, but these are supposed to be as easy on the knees as clipless pedals get: http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home...
I'd be surprised if you've permanently damaged yourself in a matter of months, but then I'm not a knee specialist. You've done the right thing by booking to see one.
I found a comfy position on my road bike by trial and error, while a friend of mine had a bike fitment for his TT bike and said it was the best money he has ever spent on a bike. If not spending the £100 on a fitting means no more cycling, personally I'd spend the money.
Stuff you might want to try, given that the pain is in the back of your knee:
Lower your saddle or move it forward
Adjust your pedals to provide less float
Fit shorter crank arms
Increase your cadence
I found a comfy position on my road bike by trial and error, while a friend of mine had a bike fitment for his TT bike and said it was the best money he has ever spent on a bike. If not spending the £100 on a fitting means no more cycling, personally I'd spend the money.
Stuff you might want to try, given that the pain is in the back of your knee:
Lower your saddle or move it forward
Adjust your pedals to provide less float
Fit shorter crank arms
Increase your cadence
GanglePin said:
I'd be surprised if you've permanently damaged yourself in a matter of months, but then I'm not a knee specialist. You've done the right thing by booking to see one.
I found a comfy position on my road bike by trial and error, while a friend of mine had a bike fitment for his TT bike and said it was the best money he has ever spent on a bike. If not spending the £100 on a fitting means no more cycling, personally I'd spend the money.
Stuff you might want to try, given that the pain is in the back of your knee:
Lower your saddle or move it forward
Adjust your pedals to provide less float
Fit shorter crank arms
Increase your cadence
Interesting idea lowering the saddle - I do have mine quite high, i.e. leg goes completely straight at the bottom of the crank turn. Hmmmm. I'll give that a go. I found a comfy position on my road bike by trial and error, while a friend of mine had a bike fitment for his TT bike and said it was the best money he has ever spent on a bike. If not spending the £100 on a fitting means no more cycling, personally I'd spend the money.
Stuff you might want to try, given that the pain is in the back of your knee:
Lower your saddle or move it forward
Adjust your pedals to provide less float
Fit shorter crank arms
Increase your cadence
Cheers for the feedback about the idea of a fitting - I had it recommended by one person already but just wanted to verify that it's not a waste of time. Seems silly doing it on a sub-1k bike but yes, if it's the difference between continuing to ride and not then obviously it's worth it.
I changed my road shoes last January.
Within a couple of days i had serious knee pain but believed the cleats were correctly aligned, I actually put it down to pushing too big a gear in the hills.
After about a month my knees were constantly sore, it was very worrying.
So I took off the cleats and realigned them. (I marked where they were aligned before I realigned them and you would barely notice the difference)
Anyway a few months on, doing 600-800 miles per month, I have absolutely no knee pain.
So I would definitely check the pedals out before changing anything else
Within a couple of days i had serious knee pain but believed the cleats were correctly aligned, I actually put it down to pushing too big a gear in the hills.
After about a month my knees were constantly sore, it was very worrying.
So I took off the cleats and realigned them. (I marked where they were aligned before I realigned them and you would barely notice the difference)
Anyway a few months on, doing 600-800 miles per month, I have absolutely no knee pain.
So I would definitely check the pedals out before changing anything else
TheDetailDoctor said:
I was haviving niggling pain in my left knee whilst using SPD's. I changed to Egg Beater pedals & the problemn has gone now, there is a little "float" on the Egg Beater cleats.
I had the same and switched to Time Atac pedals which cured the problem. Finding a set of pedals with a decent amount of float (OP - that's the amount of twisting movement your foot can do while still clipped in) should sort out the issue.It also sounds like your saddle is a bit too high - the legs shouldn't be straight at the bottom of the stroke, just slightly bent. I set my saddle height by putting my heel on the pedal and having the leg straight then at the bottom of the stroke.
mrandy said:
getting your position set up properly is the most important part of the bike,doesnt matter if its 5k worth of carbon or 500 quid.Try not to be aggressive when you clip out of the pedals do it nice and gently
100% agree. Best money I ever spent on the bike. It's amazing how subtle tweeks improve the comfort and hence the performance level.BMWBen said:
Interesting idea lowering the saddle - I do have mine quite high, i.e. leg goes completely straight at the bottom of the crank turn. Hmmmm. I'll give that a go.
That's where your problem is, you are over extending. At the bottom of the stroke your knee should be bent approx 30 degrees. Get a proper fit done
ewenm said:
I ... switched to Time Atac pedals which cured the problem. Finding a set of pedals with a decent amount of float (OP - that's the amount of twisting movement your foot can do while still clipped in) should sort out the issue.
Me too. I have had sha99ed knees ever since teenage years. When I first switched from clips & straps to clipless pedals, I went the default route of Shimano mtb SPDs. Didn't get on with them at all from a knee-pain point of view. Tried a set of ATACs and have been using them on all my bikes ever since (~14 years or so).ewenm said:
It also sounds like your saddle is a bit too high - the legs shouldn't be straight at the bottom of the stroke, just slightly bent. I set my saddle height by putting my heel on the pedal and having the leg straight then at the bottom of the stroke.
Also It's amazing how much difference a few mm one way or the other can affect your comfort on the bike.
Uriel said:
I've never used them, but these are supposed to be as easy on the knees as clipless pedals get: http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home...
I use Speedplay Frogs on my road bike. Having broken a kneecap last year they were recommended to me by several experienced cyclists as being easy on the knees. I use the Frogs, which are sold as MTB gear, so I can wear shoes with useable sole. This should minimise the chances of slipping and landing on my knee when I put a foot down at junctions !The Speedplays feel slightly odd at first as there is no spring and hence no centring tension which you have with, say, SPDs. It feels like you are standing on an ice cube but I soon got used to it. And of course this means there is no spring acting against your lateral knee movement.
An interesting thread as I'm about to enter the murky world of SPDs.
I'm murdering my right knee on the bike - like most on this thread I've had knee problems for years - however I've noticed my right foot position tends to wander about with regards angle on normal pedals.
So I'm looking at getting SPDs to keep my legs pointing in the right direction - could they actually make things worse?
I'm murdering my right knee on the bike - like most on this thread I've had knee problems for years - however I've noticed my right foot position tends to wander about with regards angle on normal pedals.
So I'm looking at getting SPDs to keep my legs pointing in the right direction - could they actually make things worse?
Odd - most people will get knee pain from having their foot locked into an "unnatural" position, putting stress on the knee. Setting up the cleat so that it aligns perfectly with the pedal whilst your foot dangles at its "natural" angle solves this. However, most shoe/cleat combinations only have a limited amount of adjustment (if any). Which is where pedals with more built-in float come in; the exact alignment of the cleat is less important as the foot is free to move to its natural position without the cleat disengaging from the pedal.
Muscle above your knee sore, though? Maybe you're running the seat slightly too low - that's one of the symptoms I tend to get if the seatpost has slipped down in the frame slightly.
Muscle above your knee sore, though? Maybe you're running the seat slightly too low - that's one of the symptoms I tend to get if the seatpost has slipped down in the frame slightly.
Hmmm.
Interesting pdv6, thanks.
Confirms my thoughts that the frame is too small for me - the seatpost is too high as is really, not to mention the top bar.
Perhaps where I've got myself - lower body at least - back in shape and I'm pushing it harder on the rides I'm starting to feel the effect of the frame size.
I noticed in the last couple of weeks I've been creeping backwards in the saddle too.
Interesting pdv6, thanks.
Confirms my thoughts that the frame is too small for me - the seatpost is too high as is really, not to mention the top bar.
Perhaps where I've got myself - lower body at least - back in shape and I'm pushing it harder on the rides I'm starting to feel the effect of the frame size.
I noticed in the last couple of weeks I've been creeping backwards in the saddle too.
Everyone will give you lots of great an useful info on measurements etc., best thing to do is get a professional to fit you and adjust the cleats to the correct angles - anything else along trial and error could make things worse and whilst you have a problem this won't help.
I had the same problem and it was related to ITB which I suffer now and again from with running as well now and need exercises to help it.
If I'd not got it diagnosed I'd have spent weeks nay months sodding about which would have either made it worse or would have been difficult to confirm a fix as of course it'd still be healing during that time.
The pro fitter will also help you with exercises to correct the problem plus any muscle imbalances that contribute. If near MK (I'm not but was worth the trek) then Velomotion are very highly recommended.
I had the same problem and it was related to ITB which I suffer now and again from with running as well now and need exercises to help it.
If I'd not got it diagnosed I'd have spent weeks nay months sodding about which would have either made it worse or would have been difficult to confirm a fix as of course it'd still be healing during that time.
The pro fitter will also help you with exercises to correct the problem plus any muscle imbalances that contribute. If near MK (I'm not but was worth the trek) then Velomotion are very highly recommended.
Years ago I ran a MTB and I had a niggly pain in my right knee. That has stayed with me to a lesser or greater degree. So I was nervous about going to SPD-SLs for my TT bike.
Seat Height should be set so with arse on the seat. Place your HEEL on the pedal and bring the crank so it's at the bottom of it's stroke on the same line as the seat tube. Then when you pedal in the normal position you should NOT be able to feel your hips rocking up and down. If they are, lower the seat a little.
Seat fore/aft. Again "ideally" (but not all oranges are equal) when the pedal is at 9/3 o clock your forward knee should be directly above the pedal.
Cleats. These should be so that the ball of your foot is directly over the spindle of the pedal. Also next time you sit on the sofa stretch your legs out and you'll see that your feet (invariably) naturally toe out. 1 may be more than the other. So try and get this toe out into the cleats position. For example my right knee toes out more than my left. So I shifted the cleat out as far as possible to give me the most angle without hitting the chain stays.
On the subject of cleats. I recommend the ones with the float in (think these are the yellow edged ones) a little natural float is much better on the knees than locked solid.
Pro bike fittings tend to focus on power/speed rather than comfort so bear that in mind.
I will say it sounds like you have "runners knee" though. There's lots of sites out there to give advice on that. When I got it a while back it was because I'd inadvertently changed my stride so I was heel striking too much.
Seat Height should be set so with arse on the seat. Place your HEEL on the pedal and bring the crank so it's at the bottom of it's stroke on the same line as the seat tube. Then when you pedal in the normal position you should NOT be able to feel your hips rocking up and down. If they are, lower the seat a little.
Seat fore/aft. Again "ideally" (but not all oranges are equal) when the pedal is at 9/3 o clock your forward knee should be directly above the pedal.
Cleats. These should be so that the ball of your foot is directly over the spindle of the pedal. Also next time you sit on the sofa stretch your legs out and you'll see that your feet (invariably) naturally toe out. 1 may be more than the other. So try and get this toe out into the cleats position. For example my right knee toes out more than my left. So I shifted the cleat out as far as possible to give me the most angle without hitting the chain stays.
On the subject of cleats. I recommend the ones with the float in (think these are the yellow edged ones) a little natural float is much better on the knees than locked solid.
Pro bike fittings tend to focus on power/speed rather than comfort so bear that in mind.
I will say it sounds like you have "runners knee" though. There's lots of sites out there to give advice on that. When I got it a while back it was because I'd inadvertently changed my stride so I was heel striking too much.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff