Cycle race marshalls.

[Saddle bum]

This will probably be moved to Pedal Powered, but not before there has been some frothing at the mouth from the car supremacists.

Cycle race marshalls are close to being given legal powers to stop vehicular traffic on race courses (and presumably junctions). Ostensably, to enhance safety, the measure is being actively discussed in the bowels of Parliament. Opinion is that it will become law.

Presently, the police do the job, but the costs to promoters is hitting the sport hard. The Police are supportive of a measure to reduce costs and maintain safety.

[thinfourth2]

Good as a petrol head anything that allows lesuire use of the roads can only be a good thing as it enhances the chances of road closures for motorsport

[mrmaggit]

According to the Highway Code, you are not allowed to "race" on the public highway.

IIRC the pedal-pushers get round this by having "time trials".

This is why you don't have engine powered competitions on the roads on mainland GB, just in NI and on the Isle of Man.

It would certainly be safer, it wasn't that long ago that a car on it's way to my former local pub nearly cleaned up a load of "time-trial" riders that met it on a 90 degree corner. Naturally, they were completely across the road, trialling away. This was on an open, public road.

If cyclists want to race, then close the roads, and let other road users have the same opportunity. Otherwise, hire a circuit like anybody else.

[Saddle bum]

mrmaggit said:

According to the Highway Code, you are not allowed to "race" on the public highway.

IIRC the pedal-pushers get round this by having "time trials".

This is why you don't have engine powered competitions on the roads on mainland GB, just in NI and on the Isle of Man.

It would certainly be safer, it wasn't that long ago that a car on it's way to my former local pub nearly cleaned up a load of "time-trial" riders that met it on a 90 degree corner. Naturally, they were completely across the road, trialling away. This was on an open, public road.

If cyclists want to race, then close the roads, and let other road users have the same opportunity. Otherwise, hire a circuit like anybody else.

I think you need to resubmit that, referring to the facts regarding cycle sport on the highway.

[mrmaggit]

Saddle bum said:

mrmaggit said:

According to the Highway Code, you are not allowed to "race" on the public highway.

IIRC the pedal-pushers get round this by having "time trials".

This is why you don't have engine powered competitions on the roads on mainland GB, just in NI and on the Isle of Man.

It would certainly be safer, it wasn't that long ago that a car on it's way to my former local pub nearly cleaned up a load of "time-trial" riders that met it on a 90 degree corner. Naturally, they were completely across the road, trialling away. This was on an open, public road.

If cyclists want to race, then close the roads, and let other road users have the same opportunity. Otherwise, hire a circuit like anybody else.

I think you need to resubmit that, referring to the facts regarding cycle sport on the highway.

Go on, then, explain to us all how cyclists are allowed to race on open public roads yet nobody else is. I've always been fascinated how you get away with it. As I said, once a month there used to be a "time trial" that passed my old local. The lead group (I think you call it a pelaton?) used to come by the pub en masse at about 30-35mph, then turn left at the junction immediately after the pub, taking (I'd take the same line if I was racing my motorbike) the racing line, regardless of whether there were cars there or not. OK there'd sometimes be an old chap with a whistle and orange bib stood there, but they'd often be on him before he'd got chance to get out of his chair.

Not being confrontational, I'm just intrigued.

[itsnotarace]

mrmaggit said:

Go on, then, explain to us all how cyclists are allowed to race on open public roads yet nobody else is.

How about

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/215/conten...

The Law said:

Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991 states:

31(1) A person who promotes or takes part in a race or trial of speed on a public way between cycles is guilty of an offence, unless the race or trial:

(a) is authorised under the Cycle Racing on Highways Regulations 1960, AND

(b) is conducted in accordance with any conditions imposed, by or under regulations under this section.

For a time trial or bicycle race to be authorised, a promoter must give 28 days written notice to the police giving times, dates, routes, start, finish, maximum number taking part, arrangements for marshalling and supervision, and the rules of the competition.

mrmaggit said:

As I said, once a month there used to be a "time trial" that passed my old local. The lead group (I think you call it a pelaton?) used to come by the pub en masse at about 30-35mph, then turn left at the junction immediately after the pub, taking (I'd take the same line if I was racing my motorbike) the racing line, regardless of whether there were cars there or not.

Time trials take place individually against the clock over 10k, 25k etc etc. What you were seeing was a weekly / monthly club ride from a local cycling club and they will not have been racing.

As for taking a "racing line" through a corner, there is nothing in the highway code that prevents you from doing that providing there is a broken white line in the road.

[itsnotarace]

Saddle bum said:

This will probably be moved to Pedal Powered, but not before there has been some frothing at the mouth from the car supremacists

Likely the same people who st bricks when a lollypop lady steps in front of them, because they too have identical powers

[mrmaggit]

Well, you might call it a group out for a ride, but from where we were stood, ie next to the path, in front of the pub, they were racing.

I do know the difference.

There is a regular time trial near Lowdham, and that is definitely a time trial. This other lot were racing. And damn dangerous they were.

[Cledus Snow]

itsnotarace said:

As for taking a "racing line" through a corner, there is nothing in the highway code that prevents you from doing that providing there is a broken white line in the road.

Maybe not in the highway code, But how about Consideration for others, Common sense, Self preservation?

[itsnotarace]

Cledus Snow said:

Maybe not in the highway code, But how about Consideration for others, Common sense, Self preservation?

If the road is clear and no there's no oncoming traffic, what is the problem?

Do you not cut corners in your car? I do all the time.

[Busamav]

mrmaggit said:

I've always been fascinated how you get away with it. As I said, once a month there used to be a "time trial" that passed my old local. The lead group (I think you call it a pelaton?) used to come by the pub en masse at about 30-35mph,

You are describing a road race , a mass start of maybe 60 riders who would be started by following a control car for the first mile or so to get the group together etc , then you would be flagged away , for maybe 50 to 85 or so miles of racing , most often over a number of laps of a given circuit

The group can split , club events would see local unpaid marshalls controlling the traffic.

Time trials are where riders are set off at normally 1 minute intervals over a fixed distance of maybe 10, 25 , 50 or 100 miles .

Both types of event are notified to the police well in advance and can only go ahead with police approval.

All quite harmless fun for a lot of people really .

Edited by Busamav on Friday 18th February 17:00

[LRdriver II]

mrmaggit said:

Well, you might call it a group out for a ride, but from where we were stood, ie next to the path, in front of the pub, they were racing.

I do know the difference.

There is a regular time trial near Lowdham, and that is definitely a time trial. This other lot were racing. And damn dangerous they were.

No, they could simply be a group training ride where they are going quick (interval training etc..)

[MonkeyHanger]

mrmaggit said:

This is why you don't have engine powered competitions on the roads on mainland GB, just in NI and on the Isle of Man.

That's not entirely accurate. The problem is that it would require an Act of Parliament for competitive motorsport on mainland GB roads as the Road Traffic Act needs to be suspended. This is how the Jim Clark Rally and the old Birmingham Superprix came into existence.

There is a suggestion that the power to suspend maybe handed to local authorities thus making events easier to organise.

[HundredthIdiot]

Really, the difference between racing bicycles and cars on open public roads ought to be obvious.

Cyclists mostly just endanger themselves.

As for possible damage to third parties, where I race (in Ireland) all racing cyclists are covered by Cycling Ireland insurance, so there's not even the "they don't even pay insurance" angle to fall back on.

[Saddle bum]

Cycle racing on the public highway has been established since the beginning of the last century in the form of time trials. I am unsure of the history of speedlimits on UK roads, but it was not considered possible to ride at high speeds which would conflict with them. Road racing proper (massed start events) began at the end of WW2 and met with fierce opposition from the bike establishment, who were worried about public hostility affecting their cosy time trial set up. Luckily, the massed start protagonists persisted, rode roughshod through any opposition and established that part of the sport. There still people around who remember the NCU/BLRC "war" and ill feeling still persists even today.

Time trials are not a race so much as a competitive cycling evente. Massed start is a pure race. Speeds of ove 40mph are commonplace. I am unsure how this squares with road speed limits, but as a cyclist cannot be "done" purley for speeding, maybe it is an academic point.

Sportives are another new addition to the calendar. Tomorrow, I am marshalling a sportive event. Over 500 riders are taking part over 35 or 70 miles, setting off in groups at set intervals. They are not races but a challenging ride over a set course, I am unsure if Police permission is needed. I do not think that in future marshalls will be allowed to stop traffic as riders must follow the law of the road. Safety considerations may allow for a bit of flexibility in that area.

[fixedwheelnut]

@SaddleBum, Large Sportives have to notify the Police and Local Council, our Club has for next weeks Hell of the Ashdown.
Sportive Marshalls are not there to stop traffic but warn Traffic of riders and vice versa warn riders of traffic.

[Saddle bum]

fixedwheelnut said:

@SaddleBum, Large Sportives have to notify the Police and Local Council, our Club has for next weeks Hell of the Ashdown.
Sportive Marshalls are not there to stop traffic but warn Traffic of riders and vice versa warn riders of traffic.

I marshalled my club's sportive - "The Kentish Killer". I'm not sure who had the most challenging time; the riders going through ste and corruption on foul, roads or the marshalls, freezing on wet wnd windy corners. Most riders did give a "Thank you" as they passed through.

Interestingly, out of 500plus rider, 60 odd were women. Tough little minxes they were too.

[anonymous-user]

mrmaggit said:

Well, you might call it a group out for a ride, but from where we were stood, ie next to the path, in front of the pub, they were racing.

I do know the difference.

There is a regular time trial near Lowdham, and that is definitely a time trial. This other lot were racing. And damn dangerous they were.

In a time trial they set off one after the other with big gaps between. You describe a large group, that's not a time trial.

[anonymous-user]

I can't see what the fuss is about. In 30 years of driving I can count the number of bike 'races' or disruption caused by running events etc, on 1 hand. Its a non-issue!!
If it affected my commute every week then whinging would be justified, but its so rare its a pointless rant!