How important is weight when choosing an MTB?
Discussion
I am considering purchasing an MTB again. I now have a Boardman road bike which I love, as its light and responsive and I find it a rewarding ride.
I bought a Specialized Rockhopper Disc in 2008 but really didnt gel with it. I bought it mainly for forest trails, a bit of singletrack & XC but wanted something which would be responsive and fast. I didnt really find that in the Rockhopper, I dont know whether the geometry was not what I was used to but sold it to a friend early last year.
I'm missing the option of having an MTB and i'm considering dipping back into it. I dont want to blow a big budget, looking at HT's about the £500 mark but also interested in picking up a 2nd hand bike which has been bought on a whim. How important is weight vs geometry for a quick bike, as in one that transfers the power that you deliver to the pedals? I'm looking at the Boardman MTB range and theyre pretty light machines but considering the likes of Scott & Cube also
I bought a Specialized Rockhopper Disc in 2008 but really didnt gel with it. I bought it mainly for forest trails, a bit of singletrack & XC but wanted something which would be responsive and fast. I didnt really find that in the Rockhopper, I dont know whether the geometry was not what I was used to but sold it to a friend early last year.
I'm missing the option of having an MTB and i'm considering dipping back into it. I dont want to blow a big budget, looking at HT's about the £500 mark but also interested in picking up a 2nd hand bike which has been bought on a whim. How important is weight vs geometry for a quick bike, as in one that transfers the power that you deliver to the pedals? I'm looking at the Boardman MTB range and theyre pretty light machines but considering the likes of Scott & Cube also
If you really do not intend to do much of drops or jumps, then go as light as your budget can go. If you think you might move into things that require a sturdy frame -- don't even think about the weight, buy a CroMo frame.
Geometry is very important, and does make bikes of comparable weight feel completely different. Best is to try the ones you're after and decide for yourself.
Geometry is very important, and does make bikes of comparable weight feel completely different. Best is to try the ones you're after and decide for yourself.
Just as a quick question, have you thought about a Cyclo-Cross bike?
Evans' Selection
They might suit your interest of light, comfortable and OK for forest trails and tow path type stuff quite well...
Evans' Selection
They might suit your interest of light, comfortable and OK for forest trails and tow path type stuff quite well...
dvance said:
Geometry is very important, and does make bikes of comparable weight feel completely different. Best is to try the ones you're after and decide for yourself.
I'd agree with that. Personally I rate geometry as more important than weight (within reason) and as said above it's a very personal thing. Bikes have generally got slacker head angles over the past 5 years or so whilst also acomodating bigger forks, but the traditional XC bike with 71deg head angle is still around.Sounds like yr after a light weight frame if you want better response, you wont get this from the heavy rock hopper, those things are made for a good caining. The Specialized Enduro full carbon has has similar geo to the rock hopper that is very responsive and strong! it will take some punishment. But out of yr price range if you suggest 500 pounds? even second I doubt youll find a carbon frame for nothing. When I was buying last year, I went into all the bike shops, tried all the brands and model of bike that suited my needs and demo'd the lot! Like buying cars very personal choice 
The trouble is that some people have a completely different perception of `lightweight`.
Personally, i had a rockhopper and loved the geometry, i found it quick steering and while not super light is wasnt exactly heavy!
I now have an aluminium framed Scott Scale and even though Scott have tamed the geometry a bit for 2011 is still is very responsive and is tipping the scales at 11.1kg, not wildly impressive but it does have good strong components and with some choice purchases then i could comfortably knock another kilo off that weight but i prefer my bikes to withstand the rough stuff and not have to replace items because they arent up to the job.
What is your idea of light weight? you really are going to have to go secondhand for that money and take a compromise somewhere.
Personally, i had a rockhopper and loved the geometry, i found it quick steering and while not super light is wasnt exactly heavy!
I now have an aluminium framed Scott Scale and even though Scott have tamed the geometry a bit for 2011 is still is very responsive and is tipping the scales at 11.1kg, not wildly impressive but it does have good strong components and with some choice purchases then i could comfortably knock another kilo off that weight but i prefer my bikes to withstand the rough stuff and not have to replace items because they arent up to the job.
What is your idea of light weight? you really are going to have to go secondhand for that money and take a compromise somewhere.
Most improtant is fit and feel of the bike. This will prevent you from having problems enjoying the ride. An amount can be sorted out in the adjustables (saddle position, stem, handlebar characteristics etc) but the fundamental feel of the bike is built in with the geo. Some manufacturers are better than others with the whole fun bike feel thing. Specialised are a mass producer (think of them as Ford) and they cater for the larger market, so like a focus, it may be good to drive but it will always lack the zing of a hand built car. Trek make really fast bike with loads of feedback (sometimes too much) and all round grin machines are Oranges. As every person is different so the interaction with the bike and effect of the geo will be a personal thing.
£500 hardtail? You are not going to get anything cutting edge for that and yo will have to sit on a fair few to find your ideal.
Weight is a biggy! The ability to change direction is dependent on the mass of the bike, hefty bikes take more effort to change direction, lift up a hill and basically pedal. Fundamental physics. However you can go too light and ruin the feel of a bike and make it very uncomfortable over longer distances.
I have found a 2010 Cannondale F1 with £500 off, stunning little HT that weighs in at just over 16lbs which make it lighter than many road bikes, drooling over spec and has the feel of a grown up BMX, really trying to raise the funds... Just by comparison a CF hardtail Trek of the same vintage is about 22-23lbs....
£500 hardtail? You are not going to get anything cutting edge for that and yo will have to sit on a fair few to find your ideal.
Weight is a biggy! The ability to change direction is dependent on the mass of the bike, hefty bikes take more effort to change direction, lift up a hill and basically pedal. Fundamental physics. However you can go too light and ruin the feel of a bike and make it very uncomfortable over longer distances.
I have found a 2010 Cannondale F1 with £500 off, stunning little HT that weighs in at just over 16lbs which make it lighter than many road bikes, drooling over spec and has the feel of a grown up BMX, really trying to raise the funds... Just by comparison a CF hardtail Trek of the same vintage is about 22-23lbs....
It sounds to me like a bike with XC racing geometry with a light build is what you'd find most rewarding - slightly lower at the front with a stiffer back end for better climbing.
Scott Scales, Decathlon Rockriders & also Boardmans & Treks (8000, 8500) tend to be a little more XC focussed.
New for your budget I'd be looking at either a Rockrider 8.1 or a reduced 2010 Boardman but ideally I'd try and find a little used bike with 80-120mm Rockshox Reba (or slightly cheaper/heavier) Recon Gold, or more expensive Fox forks. Either are a pound lighter than lesser forks & indicate a highly specced, light bike.
Example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boardman-Team-Hardtail-Front...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trek-8000-ZR-/220757394833?p...
Scott Scales, Decathlon Rockriders & also Boardmans & Treks (8000, 8500) tend to be a little more XC focussed.
New for your budget I'd be looking at either a Rockrider 8.1 or a reduced 2010 Boardman but ideally I'd try and find a little used bike with 80-120mm Rockshox Reba (or slightly cheaper/heavier) Recon Gold, or more expensive Fox forks. Either are a pound lighter than lesser forks & indicate a highly specced, light bike.
Example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boardman-Team-Hardtail-Front...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trek-8000-ZR-/220757394833?p...
I was in a similar situation.
I had been out of the saddle for a few years and decided that I wanted a mountain bike.
I bought one, and hated it. It was heavy, hard work and the geometry was hard to get on with.
Most importantly, I realised that I didn't need one because I was only doing rough trails etc.
In the end I got a Specialized Tricross sport and I love it.
Fitted the bill perfectly.
It's a little over your budget, but you do see 2nd hand ones on the bay from time to time.
I had been out of the saddle for a few years and decided that I wanted a mountain bike.
I bought one, and hated it. It was heavy, hard work and the geometry was hard to get on with.
Most importantly, I realised that I didn't need one because I was only doing rough trails etc.
In the end I got a Specialized Tricross sport and I love it.
Fitted the bill perfectly.
It's a little over your budget, but you do see 2nd hand ones on the bay from time to time.
Kylie said:
Sounds like yr after a light weight frame if you want better response, you wont get this from the heavy rock hopper, those things are made for a good caining. The Specialized Enduro full carbon has has similar geo to the rock hopper that is very responsive and strong! it will take some punishment. But out of yr price range if you suggest 500 pounds? even second I doubt youll find a carbon frame for nothing. When I was buying last year, I went into all the bike shops, tried all the brands and model of bike that suited my needs and demo'd the lot! Like buying cars very personal choice
There's not a whole lot of difference in weight to the enduro expert. It's about 28 which is pretty light for a full susser.I think even the lightest XC Carbon whippet bike is going to feel a little lardy compared to a road bike, the fat tyres and sag from the fork increase the feeling.
If you're looking for an off-road-road-bike Niner make a Carbon framed rigid which looks the absolute nuts or indeed a cyclocrosser.
But personally I think there's an element of 'getting used to it' that might be playing more of a part that the type of MTB. Hardtails are massively responsive, but you have to be more agressive with them than with a roadbike, throw them about a bit and rely on the stability to let you get away with it.
If you're looking for an off-road-road-bike Niner make a Carbon framed rigid which looks the absolute nuts or indeed a cyclocrosser.
But personally I think there's an element of 'getting used to it' that might be playing more of a part that the type of MTB. Hardtails are massively responsive, but you have to be more agressive with them than with a roadbike, throw them about a bit and rely on the stability to let you get away with it.
I'd have to add that it really depends what kind of trails you're considering. If you're going for trails like the ones in Glentress, a cyclocross bike won't do you any good -- neither is the riding position suitable, nor is the bike going to hold up for more than a few days worth of riding.
I ride a Pinnacle Trojan 1.0 converted to single speed with hydraulic brakes and a marzorcchi fork on the front. It's not lightweight I tell you
I ride a Pinnacle Trojan 1.0 converted to single speed with hydraulic brakes and a marzorcchi fork on the front. It's not lightweight I tell you
At a more fundamental level, could someone explain how weight of the bike and weight of the rider come into play?
If you compare bikes of, let's say, 12kg and 15kg, that's a a 25% weight increase.
Add a 75kg rider to the equation with the same bikes, and you're only adding 3.4% to the total weight, yet from the focus people put on bike weight, it would seem that people consider removing 3kg from the bike to have more impact than removing 3kg from the rider. Is this actually the case?
If you compare bikes of, let's say, 12kg and 15kg, that's a a 25% weight increase.
Add a 75kg rider to the equation with the same bikes, and you're only adding 3.4% to the total weight, yet from the focus people put on bike weight, it would seem that people consider removing 3kg from the bike to have more impact than removing 3kg from the rider. Is this actually the case?
Kermit power said:
At a more fundamental level, could someone explain how weight of the bike and weight of the rider come into play?
If you compare bikes of, let's say, 12kg and 15kg, that's a a 25% weight increase.
Add a 75kg rider to the equation with the same bikes, and you're only adding 3.4% to the total weight, yet from the focus people put on bike weight, it would seem that people consider removing 3kg from the bike to have more impact than removing 3kg from the rider. Is this actually the case?
When climbing a hill, would you prefer to carry a 20lb weight, a 25lb weight or a 30lb weight? If the amount of effort you have available is finite, then you will go further with less mass to carry.If you compare bikes of, let's say, 12kg and 15kg, that's a a 25% weight increase.
Add a 75kg rider to the equation with the same bikes, and you're only adding 3.4% to the total weight, yet from the focus people put on bike weight, it would seem that people consider removing 3kg from the bike to have more impact than removing 3kg from the rider. Is this actually the case?
Gooby said:
When climbing a hill, would you prefer to carry a 20lb weight, a 25lb weight or a 30lb weight? If the amount of effort you have available is finite, then you will go further with less mass to carry.
I understand that. I also understand that reducing unsprung, rotating weight (ie, wheels & tyres) will have more of an impact, pound for pound than, for example, fitting a lighter saddle. What I was asking is whether saving 200g by fitting a lighter saddle would have more or less impact than the rider losing 200g in weight.
Gooby said:
Kermit power said:
At a more fundamental level, could someone explain how weight of the bike and weight of the rider come into play?
If you compare bikes of, let's say, 12kg and 15kg, that's a a 25% weight increase.
Add a 75kg rider to the equation with the same bikes, and you're only adding 3.4% to the total weight, yet from the focus people put on bike weight, it would seem that people consider removing 3kg from the bike to have more impact than removing 3kg from the rider. Is this actually the case?
When climbing a hill, would you prefer to carry a 20lb weight, a 25lb weight or a 30lb weight? If the amount of effort you have available is finite, then you will go further with less mass to carry.If you compare bikes of, let's say, 12kg and 15kg, that's a a 25% weight increase.
Add a 75kg rider to the equation with the same bikes, and you're only adding 3.4% to the total weight, yet from the focus people put on bike weight, it would seem that people consider removing 3kg from the bike to have more impact than removing 3kg from the rider. Is this actually the case?
It's like going for a run wearing a back-pack. You might only be adding a few kilos, but as you are not used to carrying it around all day you notice it much more.
In terms of ultimate performance, weight is weight but perception is a different matter.
a11y_m said:
dvance said:
Geometry is very important, and does make bikes of comparable weight feel completely different. Best is to try the ones you're after and decide for yourself.
I'd agree with that. Personally I rate geometry as more important than weight (within reason) and as said above it's a very personal thing. Bikes have generally got slacker head angles over the past 5 years or so whilst also acomodating bigger forks, but the traditional XC bike with 71deg head angle is still around.You want a degree of flex/zing in a steel hardtail, but not too much or it saps power and will certainly dull handling.
This is the same with full suss bikes. I cannot describe the contrast in 'feel' (ride, power and handling) between my very good '09 Stumpjumper and the absof
kinglutely brilliant Nicolai Helius I got last year. The former was good but the latter excells [i[everywhere[/i]; climbs better, tracks more faithfully, flexes so little it's not worth mentioning and - despite having 20mm more travel - pedals and climbs better too. The new bike is heavier, but you'd never guess by the way it rides.Digga said:
Geometry and rigidity.
You want a degree of flex/zing in a steel hardtail, but not too much or it saps power and will certainly dull handling.
This is the same with full suss bikes. I cannot describe the contrast in 'feel' (ride, power and handling) between my very good '09 Stumpjumper and the absofkinglutely brilliant Nicolai Helius I got last year. The former was good but the latter excells [i[everywhere[/i]; climbs better, tracks more faithfully, flexes so little it's not worth mentioning and - despite having 20mm more travel - pedals and climbs better too. The new bike is heavier, but you'd never guess by the way it rides.
This is a good shout. From what I've heard (never ridden an aluminum frame for more than a few minutes, or on trails), CroMo frames are a much more compliant ride since there is more flex in the frame compare to alu ones.You want a degree of flex/zing in a steel hardtail, but not too much or it saps power and will certainly dull handling.
This is the same with full suss bikes. I cannot describe the contrast in 'feel' (ride, power and handling) between my very good '09 Stumpjumper and the absof
kinglutely brilliant Nicolai Helius I got last year. The former was good but the latter excells [i[everywhere[/i]; climbs better, tracks more faithfully, flexes so little it's not worth mentioning and - despite having 20mm more travel - pedals and climbs better too. The new bike is heavier, but you'd never guess by the way it rides.500 quid? This can't be too bad a deal, can it? Cannondale hard-tail with hyd disc brakes!
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b...
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b...
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