Regulations vs technology
Discussion
With no regulations on engines in Top Fuel, what would you expect to see?
I know it's done for a reason but I'm sure if the rules were more flexible, we'd see people using turbos, multivalve heads, 100% nitromethane etc.
What do you think? is there room for more development in a world where the rules were different?
I know it's done for a reason but I'm sure if the rules were more flexible, we'd see people using turbos, multivalve heads, 100% nitromethane etc.
What do you think? is there room for more development in a world where the rules were different?
Hypothetically with 60amps mags, unlimited fuel pumps, huge blowers etc the sky is the limit. Having tyres to take it all, is another thing all together.
OHC would never work in fuel properly (Sainty & McGee both Aussie have made and run quad cam nitro motors) but issues with parts being strong enough to take the power and servicibility make them a no go really.
OHC would never work in fuel properly (Sainty & McGee both Aussie have made and run quad cam nitro motors) but issues with parts being strong enough to take the power and servicibility make them a no go really.
Biggest problem is how to r and d the new stuff,with a busy schedule on the nhra trail you would have to race with what you know will go rounds and win points.Maybe a complete spare car and crew testing until it works then change over when it does work.As for strong enough internals ,its 20 years since the mcgee stuff happened,,dont forget my old pal jonny lovvet had one,,,anyway i would have thought strong internals would be available now....i seem to remember someone in the states saying that overhead cam meant that there was no massive hole down the middle of the block for the cam,,,must be stronger!!!!at the end of the day its costs,,,,what they have works so leave it alone ,,,personally i think twin su carbs would be good,,,,,,
You see, to me a lot of it just seems like it's antiquated for the sake of it...
Magnetos? Surely electronic ignition is better these days, there absolutely has to be flat spots in the power curve as there is no control over the ignition timing.
Supercharger? That takes mechanical power to turn it, a brace of turbos would mean no lost power, so instantly you go to ~9000bhp from ~8000bhp
Fuel, engine design, head design... all limited by current rules for the sake of it IMO
Magnetos? Surely electronic ignition is better these days, there absolutely has to be flat spots in the power curve as there is no control over the ignition timing.
Supercharger? That takes mechanical power to turn it, a brace of turbos would mean no lost power, so instantly you go to ~9000bhp from ~8000bhp
Fuel, engine design, head design... all limited by current rules for the sake of it IMO
Robmarriott said:
Supercharger? That takes mechanical power to turn it, a brace of turbos would mean no lost power, so instantly you go to ~9000bhp from ~8000bhp
Fuel, engine design, head design... all limited by current rules for the sake of it IMO
The problem in the nitro classes isn't that the engines aren't making enough power. Increasing the power output of the engine is unlikely to help much unless you can get that power down on the track. And even if you can, are the tyres going to be able to cope with the extra forces involved?Fuel, engine design, head design... all limited by current rules for the sake of it IMO
The limitations in the current rules are there for a specific reason, which is to prevents costs from spiralling out of control. They do that well, and I don't think you can honestly claim with a straight face that the class has suffered because of it.
Robmarriott said:
You see, to me a lot of it just seems like it's antiquated for the sake of it...
Magnetos? Surely electronic ignition is better these days, there absolutely has to be flat spots in the power curve as there is no control over the ignition timing.
Supercharger? That takes mechanical power to turn it, a brace of turbos would mean no lost power, so instantly you go to ~9000bhp from ~8000bhp
Fuel, engine design, head design... all limited by current rules for the sake of it IMO
Find electronic ignition that provides the same response and power of twin 44amp mags.... there is ignition control as well, used in fuel cars.Magnetos? Surely electronic ignition is better these days, there absolutely has to be flat spots in the power curve as there is no control over the ignition timing.
Supercharger? That takes mechanical power to turn it, a brace of turbos would mean no lost power, so instantly you go to ~9000bhp from ~8000bhp
Fuel, engine design, head design... all limited by current rules for the sake of it IMO
Turbos and nitro, interesting concept I've thought about before, but extremely hot exhaust gases, still burning, into a turbo would surely destroy the turbine wheel, shaft, cook the oil and end in kaboomski.
Interesting topic. How would a fuel car get enough boost off the line if you run turbos as they run direct drive and would they spool up quick enough on the hit and give instant power like a blower does. All this Coils EFI and OHC is all quite new to the Americans even in there road cars let alone in drag racing, so i cant see them coming round to the idea and changing from pushrod to OHC anytime soon even if it is more modern and has its advantages.
Jon C said:
Burndown said:
In Motorcycle Drag Racing where the rules have historically been much more accommodating to new ideas. The fastest bikes seem to be running Blown Nitro OHC.
Apart from all that time when they had to run production cylinder heads...Squating Neville said:
All this Coils EFI and OHC is all quite new to the Americans even in there road cars let alone in drag racing, so i cant see them coming round to the idea and changing from pushrod to OHC anytime soon even if it is more modern and has its advantages.
Have to pull you up a bit there cos in my big block ford book there's lots of stuff about racing the ford sohc 'cammer' in the mid sixties with nitro/blower etc. (ed pink, connie kalitta etc.) -some nice injection set-ups as well albeit not electronic-indy cars were dohc at the time apparently. By the way I saw the mcgee car at Shakey back in the day - just before steve read went to Oz- think it put in a run or two but they were still de-bugging it-memory is a bit hazy.
Cheers
You probably couldnt control the boost on the hit accuratly enough with the stuff available now but if for arguments sake,blowers were outlawed and turbos were mandatory then they would build something that works,the wastegates would be mahoosive,,on the roller we have a transbrake button,which also controls a computer you spool up against the transbrake,when you let go of the trans button the computer bassically dumps all the manifold pressure and gradually builds manifold pressure back up ,say 1 foot out 2 pounds ,6 foot out 5 pounds ,20 foot out 15 pounds,,,there not the figures but you get the picture ,,this makes the power delivery more gradual, if you where allowed turbos you would need lots of electronics which you aint allowed at the moment.
Twin turbos with fuel isnt a new idea,in the past its been held back by clutch technology ,or whatever technology you need to stop instantly frying the tyres.
I may be corrected here but i think that twin turbo pro mods leave slower than the rootes type cars and then the turbo car beats them in the 2nd part of the track
Twin turbos with fuel isnt a new idea,in the past its been held back by clutch technology ,or whatever technology you need to stop instantly frying the tyres.
I may be corrected here but i think that twin turbo pro mods leave slower than the rootes type cars and then the turbo car beats them in the 2nd part of the track
Regarding the boost pressure on the line issue, there's ways round it, the obvious one is some sort of launch control as mentioned, although I'm not sure it's required really, knowing how nitro burns, there's a lot of energy in the exhaust still...
the other way would be injecting nitrous or some other gas into the turbine housing to spool the turbos, not sure that's such a safe idea though.
I'm sure EGT wouldn't be too much of an issue, nitro burns cooler than petrol anyway so in theory, that's not going to be problematic.
the other way would be injecting nitrous or some other gas into the turbine housing to spool the turbos, not sure that's such a safe idea though.
I'm sure EGT wouldn't be too much of an issue, nitro burns cooler than petrol anyway so in theory, that's not going to be problematic.
Gassing Station | Drag Racing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff