Top Sportsman??

[anonymous-user]

Do we really need another class in the UK to dilute field numbers any further? Not sure I'm convinced to be honest, Super Mod already exists as an affordable heads-up doorslammer class and the index side of things is catered for with Super Pro ET....does anyone see it taking off??

[obsession]

I don't know how much interest paul and Jeff have received with the class and format. I spoke to Jeff at the finals and he explained the format in a bit more detail. I agree there are already enough classes.

Its a bit of a strange one really. For me the way the format is proposed, it turns a weekend event into a one day event, as I would probably not run in the bracket race on the 2nd day. If I wanted to do that I would run super pro which already has large enough fields. My heart is with sumo and probably always will be, its a shame the class doesn't get the recognition or coverage it deserves, if people knew how hard it is to tune these cars to the times they run, the the perseption of the class may be different.

I can't see it taking off (sorry paul/Jeff), although a one off event that followed a heads up no dial in approach, like the doorslammer events my old man used to promote, I would support.

[chris89]

its a strange one this new class, as has been said there are enough classes to run in, super mod, super pro, pro et, etc etc. When you figure in comp eliminator and the VW classes it just seems too much choice, if you can't find a class in the exsisting classes to run in something must be wrong

[SkintRacer]

I think the main point is, it's not a case of creating a new class, which i agree there are enough for all racers and budgets. I think it's an opportunity for racers to have another meeting over the summer, when all the pro boys/girls are overseas racing. I welcome another meeting at the pod, all track time is good time

Edited by SkintRacer on Thursday 21st October 09:02

[anonymous-user]

chris89 said:

if you can't find a class in the exsisting classes to run in something must be wrong

There lies the problem with this country, all too often people build a car and then look for a class to race it in, and if they're not competitive in it or it simply doesn't fit they want the rules adjusting or a class creating to suit. If doorslammer racers want to run heads-up balls out, there's Super Mod, Street Eliminator and ultimately Pro Modified to enter, and why the notion of another dial your own index class is appealing I just don't understand, especially with Super Pro being such a healthy and well subscribed eliminator...especially if you want to run the ready steady go tree.

Obviously I'm protective of Super Modified due to my involvement with the class for so long, and it does pain me to see that the class is struggling for numbers and then there's a proposed class for 7 and 8 second doorslammers being banded around! That class encompasses so many different combinations, I fail to see how anyone wishing to run this Top Sportsman deal isn't interested in it. I must confess (and this purely my own opinion) I'm not keen on the direction that the dynamic of the class has taken in recent years (i.e. if you can't or won't get your head around nitrous systems and/or clutches then you can do what you want) but it's still one of the most fun and rewarding categories in the sport where door cars are concerned. Maybe people aren't interested in developing a combination anymore?? No wonder we've only got one Brit in Pro Stock!

[ribaric]

"Maybe people aren't interested in developing a combination anymore??"

I think you've hit the nail dead centre there. Your comments certainly do apply over here in central Europe where we have about six different race series, all with different classes with different rules - a complete mess in fact. Dial-in or super classes are not popular for reasons beyond me so everyome wants to run heads up with no breakout - but with their own rules.

Developing a combination once had a chance of providing a winning formula but these days it is difficult to see where a back-yard experimenter is ever going to come up with something good enough to win. The cost of R&D is just too much for 99% of people. This is always the problem with any no-breakout class, the rich teams will usually come out on top, the rest have to be satisfied with the occasional giant killing act. As a life-long Leyton Orient fan, I am accustomed to such a position and I can tell you that it ain't much fun and we are few in number.

I believe Tog is a Port Vale supporter .... and I thought I was stupid!

Edited by ribaric on Thursday 21st October 09:50

[wicked fish]

Im not gonna get involved in this one too much as I like Lee have my own thought about Super modified
But i have to point out to all the racers out there who cant/wont race in super mod because they are scared that it is a massivly expensive class or that you need to be Einstein to race in it,

Fred Hone holds the class record and is this years champ using a iron block 461ci chevy with dart pro 1 heads and a hundred year old ex tim cook (56 chevy not the pro mod)tunnel ran and dominators,
a 5 LB n20 bottle in an old car,

thats all i will say

Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 21st October 10:08

[AutoManics]

I like the idea, am i right in thinking that the other doorslammer only classes (not including street eliminator) are v8 only classes?

With the rise of smaller non v8 cars a class to include all is definately welcome!

[anonymous-user]

ribaric said:

Developing a combination once had a chance of providing a winning formula but these days it is difficult to see where a back-yard experimenter is ever going to come up with something good enough to win. The cost of R&D is just too much for 99% of people.

Again though, Super Modified is the perfect place for the backyard experimenter to flourish, take any one of the nitrous cars camshaft specs and nitrous tune up and pass it on to a "name" tuner or manufacturer in the States and they'll tell you it simply won't work. We took a 2840lb box section CDS chassis'd car that started out running 8.40's and evolved it in to a championship-winning machine than ran 7.61 and held the speed record for over 18 months. You don't need any exotic parts either, like Graham mentioned in his posts, take an iron block, some reasonable off the shelf aluminium heads, a generic tunnel ram and some dominators and then let your brain run wild! The notion of just building a car, seeing what et it will run out of the box and then looking for a place to run it is madness to me, especially when a purpose built Super Mod car (if you start off with a specific goal in mind) costs no more to build initially than a Super Pro ET/bracket doorslammer running similar 7-8 second ET's. Most bracket cars evolve with bigger engines etc through the course of their strip career anyway, so even taking the usual "evolution" route that the majority of uk race cars take, it's still not an expensive class.

I don't intend this to come across as an advert for Super Modified but as I touched on earlier, it seems madness creating a class when there's already one there that's perfectly suitable.

I do agree though that the vast expanse in the calender during the summer is a waste for sportsman racers, and an doorslammer type shootout would be great (no offence dragster boys but....ya know ha ha).

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st October 11:38

[Tet]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

Super Mod already exists as an affordable heads-up doorslammer class and the index side of things is catered for with Super Pro ET....does anyone see it taking off??

I have no idea, to be honest. On the face of it, it seems like the worst of both worlds. A two day meeting where the slow cars don't stand a chance on the heads up day, and the quick cars will be massacred in a bracket race by the slower but more consistent cars. In both cases, you're losing half the weekend. Would we be better off with a meeting that ran Pro Mod, SuMo, Street Eliminator and a single big bracket class[1]? Maybe. On the other hand, this type of meeting is big in the US, so maybe there's some aspect of it that I'm missing.

[1] Is that even feasible? I'm not sure of the wisdom of running a very fast car against a very slow car. The closing speeds are enormous if something goes wrong.

[Tet]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

doorslammer type shootout would be great (no offence dragster boys but....ya know ha ha).

Actually, I don't. I know you weren't being entirely serious, but to me, a race car is a race car. Does it matter what shape it is? In some races in the US, you're not allowed to run doorslammers in Super Comp. Maybe it's just because I've grown up in Europe where such things are common, but to me that seems like madness. If a car can run 8.90 and has a chassis that is appropriately tagged, then it should be allowed to enter. Similarly, I don't really get doorslammer only meetings. Particularly over here, where I don't think the sport is big enough to support such divisions.

If we're going to have another meeting over the summer (and I really think we should), then it should include as many race cars as we can possibly get to it. Artificially restricting who can enter seems like a counterproductive step to me.

Edited by Tet on Thursday 21st October 12:18

[anonymous-user]

Tet said:

Rat_Fink_67 said:

doorslammer type shootout would be great (no offence dragster boys but....ya know ha ha).

Actually, I don't. I know you weren't being entirely serious, but to me, a race car is a race car. Does it matter what shape it is?

In my own opinion yes it does, because I'm watching it with my own eyes and the thought of 7,8 & 9 second dragsters creates some form of frontal lobe shutdown in my swede. I'm just a doorslammer guy that's all (and to a lesser extent, funny cars).

I think the appeal of doorslammer events are down to the fact that people can relate to a vehicle with a roof and doors, something that they can identify as being a "car". Not knocking dragsters or their fans but it's just not my thing.

Your point about closing speeds in ET classes reminds me of something though; Back when Patrick Wikstrom first came over with the Nova (2000?) and ran in Super Pro ET he was matched up with Tim Garlick, when his Cortina was running the pretty tame, stockish Rover lump. Tim described the sensation of having Patrik pass him at the finish line going 75mph faster as "I f**king s**t myself!!!".....not good for the concentration of keeping your own car under control ha ha.

[wicked fish]

SkintRacer said:

I think the main point is, it's not a case of creating a new class, which i agree there are enough for all racers and budgets. I think it's an opportunity for racers to have another meeting over the summer, when all the pro boys/girls are overseas racing. I welcome another meeting at the pod, all track time is good time

Edited by SkintRacer on Thursday 21st October 09:02

you mean all 4 of us???


but i must admit summer nats till euro finals is far loo long a gap in the limited season right at the time of year that good weather is more lightly,

Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 21st October 13:25

[lucky777devil]

I ran at the "Doorslamers" at Avon Park in 2002 with my old car , remember the BMW ?

We had a great time , getting through to the final against Brian Pateman , I thought it was a great format , and I hoped it would be repeated and become a yearly event.

I dont want a new class to dilute what we all already have , but a yearly doorslammer class / event would be a sucess if marketed and supported properley

[wicked fish]

lucky777devil said:

I ran at the "Doorslamers" at Avon Park in 2002 with my old car , remember the BMW ?

We had a great time , getting through to the final against Brian Pateman , I thought it was a great format , and I hoped it would be repeated and become a yearly event.

I dont want a new class to dilute what we all already have , but a yearly doorslammer class / event would be a sucess if marketed and supported properley

yes that was a great event i ran my first 6 there, great format great event proper doorslammer event f***ing Awesome,
it involved everybody street cars up to pro mods and within that event had a quick 32 shootout,
which i won...
but everyone got a shot, and in a drag race anything can happen there were many winners that weekend and the biggest winner Terry Gibbs for organising a standout event that today is still remembered with sadness, because we havent seen an event like this since his passing,

Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 21st October 13:41

[SkintRacer]

wicked fish said:

SkintRacer said:

I think the main point is, it's not a case of creating a new class, which i agree there are enough for all racers and budgets. I think it's an opportunity for racers to have another meeting over the summer, when all the pro boys/girls are overseas racing. I welcome another meeting at the pod, all track time is good time

Edited by SkintRacer on Thursday 21st October 09:02

you mean all 4 of us???


but i must admit summer nats till euro finals is far loo long a gap in the limited season right at the time of year that good weather is more lightly,

Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 21st October 13:25

Yep....all 4 of you....for me,it's the lack of racing during the summer months...oh..and thanks for the jubliee clips and use of your bubble balancer

[obsession]

The Avon Park doorslammer meets were great, my old man was a doorslammer man, it was where his heart was, its a shame that the event that was organised by him, and took place just after he died, at Santa pod to the same format wasn't as well attended (huge thanks to those that did support it) instead all I read on several class forums was people moaning!

You were given an event, and few attended, what incentive is there to run this type of event if the support, apart from the few, is not there? I applaud Paul and Jeff for having a go at setting a meeting up if it is to be a one off, but the format currently is not for me.

Apologies if I offend anyone, just telling it how it is.

[obsession]

Edited by obsession on Thursday 21st October 16:22

[Tet]

obsession said:

its a shame that the event that was organised by him, and took place just after he died, at Santa pod to the same format wasn't as well attended (huge thanks to those that did support it) instead all I read on several class forums was people moaning!

You were given an event, and few attended, what incentive is there to run this type of event if the support, apart from the few, is not there?

It's worth looking at why it wasn't well attended, though. The rules stated full electronics were allowed, and that it would be run on a fixed index. That effectively made any of the cars that primarily ran in the ET classes uncompetitive compared to those in the super classes running with a throttle stop. It's the ET classes that make up the bulk of the doorslammers in the UK, so you've alienated the majority of your potential entrants right from the start. For me, it seemed a strange decision at the time. The meeting itself was pretty decent, although I annoyingly threw it away in the semi finals (IIRC, I was asleep on the tree). But if a meeting like that is going to be a success, I think it needs to make more of an effort to be inclusive. Will the Top Sportsman meeting be any better on that front? I guess we'll wait and see.

[wicked fish]

obsession said:

Edited by obsession on Thursday 21st October 16:22

the santa pod event as i recall and i may be wrong it wasnt the same format at all

I recall the 2002 deal had 3 or 4 seperate classes pro, top gun, ect ect all running heads up within your chosen group when you entered you had to specify which eliminator you chose to run in
I ran in pro with Andy robinson and John Ellis,
you qualified and raced within that group, as you qualified for your group the 32 quickest times of the day were put in to a quick 32 race within a race,

the santa pod format was again A top sportsman attempt, with dial ins and sportsman trees
we raced the SM car and had a first round loss as we couldnt see more than the top yellow,


I bet an event like the first one would be a sucess as there is a place for everyone to run on a pro tree amoungst your peers
no one in a street car would have to run a pro mod,

pro mod could enter and race against like cars and the owners of any cars would deciede if they fancied mixing it with the big boys,

that format worked
the other diddnt
so if your gonna arrange an event pick a winner not a looser