Is it better to buy or build a track car?

[GTR LUST]

Hello racers!

Newbee wannabe track day driver with some questions to ask those who are already into it.

My current thoughts is to get a saxo 1.6, and keep it road legal so I can drive to the track. (No access to trailer).

So, should I buy someone elses track day car, that's been modded, caged and 'thrashed', or buy a average mileage car, and strip & cage it? Normal power mods within reason will also likely follow.

Next questions is do you all go on track without special insurace? (i.e at your own risk) Quotes to insure my vectra for track days seems very expensive, and would pay for a track car in just a few visits.

And lastly (for now!), I realise driving a stripped car is very different to a normal car, but will it be unbearable to use a track car to do my daily commute (around 10 k miles a year)? My thoughts here is maybe strip & cage my current 2.2 vectra for track use instead of buying the Saxo (keeping heating and stereo for some comfort)...

Thanks in advance for your advise.

[mike_knott]

It is normally cheaper to buy somebody else's car, assuming you can get one in the spec you need.

Many people don't insure, but it is a decision that only you can make. It will be cheaper finding a road insurance policy with track cover included, rather than insuring per day, but note that the excess on these policys is normally quite large, and they only pay out under certain conditions so it may not be worth it.

I personally wouldn't (and don't!) use my track car as a daily hack. A well sorted track car will be a bit hard core for our roads, which will limit how far you go with the mods and leave you with a compromised track/road car. A Vectra sounds like it might be a bit too heavy to make a decent track car, too, so I would keep the two separate.

Mike...

[shaun fulcrum]

I'll second that

Although it does really depend how many days you plan on doing?

Lots of people have road/track cars and look as though they have just as much fun as track only car drivers.

So the choice really is upto you. Personally trailer and dedicated track car.

[e46m3c]

Building your own track car froms scratch is great fun and good to learn and appreciate whats going on when your on track.

however it costs a fortune.

Aloy of track car owners spend alot of money, so all of the ware and tare items are probably already done. You would only have to worry about new enginer / gearbox and id imagine both would be cheaper than buying and fitting a cage.

Ive kept mine road legal, as using it on the road is lots of fun! And any mods or fixes you can test on the road rather than the expense of a trackday.

Iver always insured my cars on track, but only because they were worth to much for me to risk. Some insurers now include 5 days trackday cover in with the policy! And at about 60-70 quid a pop otherwise its only a small proportion of the cost.


Wether stripping is tolerable is up to the individual. My M3 is totally stripped and i love it on the road However others wouldnt even consider it drivable!
Have you done any trackdays before? Do you know the rough costs involved?

[edh]

Buy one already built (built properly, not just a road car with cut springs, doorcards removed & a bucket seat bolted in )

Don't bother with insurance - unless you really can't afford a total loss (less the money back from breaking the remains...) and we're talking about a cheap car here, so if you can't afford a this, you probably can't afford to do track days

Lightweight is good, plenty of decent hot hatches for sale for much less than the build cost.

[groomi]

I used to occasionally track my daily car (Pug 205GTI), although I luckily had another much thirstier car I could use when I needed to.

I experienced a couple of minor set-backs at the end of track days such as:

1) Getting tyre pressures wrong and wrecking a tyre. Using the spare is no big deal, but then having to commute with no spare for the rest of the week until you can get it replaced may be a tad risky.

2) Exhaust blew a hole. Getting home was very noisy, but not too much of an issue at a weekend. More awkward for commuting though...

3) Amateur mistake - did 'one more lap' before going home and then half way home realised the brakes were metal on metal. No driving it to work until pads and discs were replaced.

All of those scenarios are easily avoided, but equally easily done.

[Kozy]

I wouldn't be keen on buying a trackday spec hot-hatch, you'll have no idea what the previous owner has done to it and chances are, neither will they. Best do it yourself, and do thing you know need doing. Much better to learn and develop IMO.

[Steve H]

Summary:

1 It's cheaper to buy one already built, so long as it's been done properly.
2 If you do go this route, allow for correcting some things that don't work as they should.
3 If you don't mind spending the time/cash building one yourself it can be fun/interesting/quality result.

I wouldn't recommend the Vectra for track use, not a good starting point.

[spyderman8]

I guess the answer depends a lot on just how serious you're going to be about tracking the car. I think you'll find a full-on stripped track day car too noisy and uncomfortable for 10k/year road use - it'll drive you nuts! On the other hand, if you get a taste for racing, the car could well be suitable already. How many track days have you done already?

Some of the time I track my own car and its insured through Manning who cover it for unlimited track days so long as they're organised through an ATDO member.

Edited by spyderman8 on Friday 16th December 21:34

[iguana]

99% of the time its far far cheaper to buy something done, you could of course buy a pup, but with a bit of common sence & not buying something well overpriced, even at the cheaper end of the market you can save many thousands, even with the odds & sods you may still need to do on purchace.

I've bought a few track cars cars at well under 1/3rd to 1/4 of the original build cost. I've also built & developed a couple & lost out on re-sale too, but thats just the way it goes & you can wait a very very long time for the type of car you want to come up already done & sorted.

Can't say vectra or saxo would be on any interest at all, are far better choices even at the low rent end of track slaggery.

[GTR LUST]

Many thanks for all your input.

To answer a couple of questions I have never been to a trackday (although I have passed IAMs, done a couple of driving experiences, & have 12 years OTR), or a real idea how much costs are, although I know it wont be cheap! I'd hope to make it to at least 10 days a year, but that could easily turn into more once I get hooked!

So what kind of costs are involved for a typical track day, enterance fee, etc...?

And how does a typical day pan out?

I live between Sudbury & Haverhill, so Brands Hatch and Snetterton are my likely track destinations, any other tracks near me I'm unaware of?

I have some other questions too, but I'll start another thread as I'll get more input(many wont read this far into a thread!).

Thanks again to all who post

Edited by GTR LUST on Saturday 17th December 11:21

[shaun fulcrum]

It usually costs me:

£150ish for TD
£70-100 on petrol on track
Petrol to get there
Food and drink
Tools and spare consumables

So looking at £350+ for a "cheap" track day IMO.

Edit: also if you've NEVER done a track day, might be worth doing one in your vectra just to see what you think before buying anything

Edited by shaun fulcrum on Saturday 17th December 14:41

[TypeRTom]

GTR LUST said:

I live between Sudbury & Haverhill, so Brands Hatch and Snetterton are my likely track destinations, any other tracks near me I'm unaware of?

I'm in Haverhill, not far! Bedford is about an hour from here (nearer than brands) and is a good circuit. I think track days are also run at North Weald and Marham but less often than the others and may have higher tyre wear from what I've heard.

I've also been considering the pros/cons of buying a car ready prepped or getting it done myself so will be keeping an eye on this thread. I'm not sure I have the car know-how or time to be able to build a track car myself but it would certainly be a fun project. I was thinking about getting a second car for track duties, possibly something old enough to be able to get classic insurance on it. If I was bulding a car myself I think I'd want to run it about on the roads for a while to make sure I was starting from a good base.

[splitpin]

If there's nothing in it time-wise, definitely focus in on Snett; it's usually good value whoever the TDO is and that's all year round, Brands is always expensive (especially in peak season) unless it's being run by a 'pack 'em in merchant' (don't bother) and usually it'll be the Indy Circuit which is way too short and other than Paddock Hill Bend, not that how shall we say, interesting. Snett's really technical and it'll help you to progress all areas of technique, especially since MSV transformed it with Snett 300. So said, Snett 200 is still very fulfilling.

I love Snett - IMHO, miles better than any featureless airfield malarkey and unlike Bedford, a pukka race track with some fantastic heritage behind it. You'll always find some proper and inevitably friendly racers there who you can pick the brains of (when they've got out of the car and switched them back on )

[spyderman8]

GTR LUST said:

And how does a typical day pan out?

Arrive at circuit (preferably with a full tank of petrol)
Drive to pits
Sign on at Race Control (show your driving license, complete the disclaimer form)
Fix number sticker to car
Fix towing eye to car
Noise test (not all circuits)
Attend briefing (normally in the cafe or bar)
Get yet clobber on (helmet is compulsory)
First stint
Come back in
Check tyre pressures and adjust as necessary
Rinse and repeat
...
Chequered flag
Come in - let car cool down
Return tyre pressures to correct road values
Drive home with big grin
Tell mates about it incessantly for next week

As suggested - you should definitely do one - even a half day or evening - just to make certain you like it. Snetterton is far more interesting than Bedford.

[GTR LUST]

Awesome, cheers for the info

Will defo get up to Snet soon in the vec for a taster, how long do you normally get on track?

Edited by GTR LUST on Sunday 18th December 00:02

[Steve H]

Most trackdays are open pitlane so you can go out as much as you like. Pace yourself sensibly and you will still do at least 100-150 miles on circuit.

[CDP]

GTR LUST said:

Awesome, cheers for the info

Will defo get up to Snet soon in the vec for a taster, how long do you normally get on track?

Edited by GTR LUST on Sunday 18th December 00:02

First of all: Go easy on the brakes or they will be shot in the first three laps, be careful and they'll easily do the day. Road cars are designed to stop with cold pads not hot, racing cars keep (and need) them warm. The requirements are completely different so don't be tempted to use racing pads on the road as they won't work well enough when something suddenly happens on the motorway.

I've taken my 2.0DTi Vectra round Snetterton for coaching and it was surprisingly good. Normally you get five or six 20 minute sessions. This time of year often it's "open pit" where you could be out all morning, don't be tempted: you'll get tired and prang it or the car will give up. You both need an occasional rest; the twenty minute sessions are quite a good guide.

Spend the first 20 minutes or so learning the sequence of corners then get some tuition. You will be amazed how much faster you go.

WRT trackday cars. The Vectra's an excellent tow car. This time of year Locosts and the like are really cheap and so are trailers. Failing that so are refugee Saxos from racing series. It's a lot cheaper to buy a decent car than build one yourself and ask to see the championship summary to see how well the car/driver did and more importantly how many finishes he had. It's a pretty good guide to reliability.

[e46m3c]

yeah it aint cheap.

Ontop of the actual fees youll have to budget for replacing stuff.

pads ever 3 days - 100 quid_
disks every 6+ days 350
tyres every 3 days 250+
service every couple of days +100
(this is for my m3)

Then youll also start chasing the mods which will cost you thousands. coilovers 1k, brake upgrade 1k, cage 1k etc

Once all factored in, it probably costs about 600 a day. Best money you will ever spend tho




There is a reason you will never find a proper cost brakedown per trackday on the internet....cos if we did it we wouldnt bloody do em! All about the love

"Racing is life... everything before and after is just waiting." A famous bloke once said. This is your future should you venture down this road

Edited by e46m3c on Sunday 18th December 16:12

Edited by e46m3c on Sunday 18th December 16:14

[CDP]

Pop down the scrappy and get a couple of spare wheels for the front. The backs should be OK provided you're not too silly but I have taken the writing off mine before now...