Stay with my car (DD) or buy a low-cost trackday machine?

[Jakub]

Hi Everyone.

The story is simple: Last Saturday I did my first trackday (novice only day) at Bedford.
I cannot describe how much fun I had!

OK, everyone seemed to be faster during my first hour. I know that my car is not very fast but the balance and breaks are really good.
To find out what was going on I booked a 20min season with the instructor: money well spend.
“turn... power, power, power... wait... now! Brake! 2nd gear And turn!” Amazing!
At the end of the session I was much faster but what I think is important, my driving became more fluid.

Anyway: I did like it.
I know that I do not want to go to the bigger events (for now) and I feel safe at Bedford (nothing to hit, huge run off areas). I would like to do more trackdays there.

But what about the car?
It is a Porsche Cayman: I would not drive it on track without insurance. Last time I had to pay £200 for a half day. It is my daily driver – I am using N-rated tyres (not cheap). So I do not know what to do about it: run her on track (probably couple of days a year) or buy something track prepared like Saxo, 106, 205, 172 or mx5? Hopefully something up to 2-3000? My thinking is:

Cayman:
+ lovely car, good presence, handling and so on
+ I was pleased with it on Saturday
+ as a DD I have to pay insurance, tax, MOT anyway, no double spendings

- Insurance up to £200 per trackday
- Expensive tyres
- Expensive everything (brake pads and discs etc)
- Small but still possible chance of overrevs – the resale value will drop
- more wear and tear
- Engine damage possible in the long run?


Saxo, 106, 205, 172 or mx5:
+ No trackday insurance
+ Much cheaper tyres
+ Much cheaper everything else
+ More trackday focused (stripped down, cage)

- Initial cost of buying the car
- Another car to insure with road insurance (must be able to go to track)
- Another carpark place needed
- Another road tax to pay
- Another MOT to do

I will not sell the Cayman but I do not know if I really can afford more cars...
But trackdays in cayman will be expensive? Will be a small (old and cheap) trackday car cheaper in the long run? What do you think?

Edited by Jakub on Monday 16th January 13:54

[framerateuk]

I have a Megane 250 Cup as my daily driver but I also use it on trackdays up to around 5 times a year.

It goes without saying, driving your daily car on the track is always a bit of a risk because if the worst happens then you're not in the easiest position in the world! I'd be stuck as I have to drive to work every day! This is my main concern with the car! That said, it was made for going round tracks and it would be a massive shame not to make the most of it!

I've made no modifications to the car except for the brake pads (CL5+) which stop the car a lot better than the OEM pads. I have also bought a set of wheels just for track use. This is mostly so I can have a fresh set to drive home on in case I get carried away at a trackday. I don't consider myself to be a good enough trackday driver to be on semi-slicks yet.

Engine wise I would expect my car to hold up to most things, afterall, Renault sell this as a track-orientated car anyway and so far after about 4 trackdays last year and a Nurburgring trip the car hasn't missed a beat.

Like you I'd love a seperate track car, but i just don't have the room for a 2nd car at the moment, and it probably wouldn't be used enough. It would certainly save a lot in tyres and brake pads though!

In regards to insurance, I'm with Greenlight who will do a trackday policy on top of your road policy. They charge £50 a day and the excess goes up to somthing like £2000. This is obviously a last resort, but I feel much safer knowing that's there than I would without anything at all. This might be something for you to look into!

Personally, I'd quite like to keep the Megane long term and turn it into a real track car and get a smaller car for my daily drive to work. It's a bit backwards, but the car really inspires confidence on the track, and it's handling is very predictable while still being a lot of fun!

[gtdc]

For 2 days a year keep your car. Enjoy it. Carry on with the tuition.

[Jakub]

gtdc said:

For 2 days a year keep your car. Enjoy it. Carry on with the tuition.

For 2 days, yes you are right.
But what about once a month? That would be like 10-12 a year. Or just 5 trackdays a year?

[gtdc]

If you're doing more days then buy an MX5.

[braddo]

Or use your own car for a few days and hire a track car for a few days.

[fatboy21]

Hi Jakub - Am i missing something - the Cayman is an awesome light powerful car to drive around a track. I test drove a Cayman R this morning and it reminded me of my former MR2 but with more than twice the power - totally awesome. An MX-5 is a great car too (my brother used to have one which i drove quite a bit) but is not a patch on the Cayman is it?

So while i can see you trading in the Cayman to get an MX-5 and then a nice A5 or something for the daily drive and the motorways (which woudl be hell in the Cayman), what the deal with keeping the Cayman for everyday and NOT taking it on the track and then buying an 'inferior' car for the track day while your purpose built machine is crying tears of 5W30 in the garage?

[Jakub]

fatboy21 said:

Hi Jakub - Am i missing something - the Cayman is an awesome light powerful car to drive around a track. I test drove a Cayman R this morning and it reminded me of my former MR2 but with more than twice the power - totally awesome. An MX-5 is a great car too (my brother used to have one which i drove quite a bit) but is not a patch on the Cayman is it?

So while i can see you trading in the Cayman to get an MX-5 and then a nice A5 or something for the daily drive and the motorways (which woudl be hell in the Cayman), what the deal with keeping the Cayman for everyday and NOT taking it on the track and then buying an 'inferior' car for the track day while your purpose built machine is crying tears of 5W30 in the garage?

Hi, let me explain:
The cayman is my little boys dream - to own and drive a Porsche
My office is not far away, I do walk sometimes, other days when I know that I will have to drive somewhere else ( different site) I will take the cayman.
I also own Audi A3, my GF's daily driver and my motorway car.

In fact I have no need for a car, I could sell the Porsche and get road legal track car.
But as usual it is about money. I cannot say now if my new hobby will stay a hobby in couple of months. I did just one trackday, it is not enought to sell the cayman right now if you know what I mean? But keep on tracking her will be expensive. That is way I am asking here about ideas....

[fatboy21]

framerateuk said:

I've made no modifications to the car except for the brake pads (CL5+) which stop the car a lot better than the OEM pads. I have also bought a set of wheels just for track use. This is mostly so I can have a fresh set to drive home on in case I get carried away at a trackday. I don't consider myself to be a good enough trackday driver to be on semi-slicks yet.

Do u have to declare that to insurance as a modification (brake pads)?

Where do you keep the wheels then? How does that work?

Re semislicks - I'm starting with 1.6 mm tread on fronts. By end of day is that semi-slick. Is that ok/safe? What is harder about semi slicks. Though more rubber would be better (in dry)?

[gashead1105]

fatboy21 said:

framerateuk said:

I've made no modifications to the car except for the brake pads (CL5+) which stop the car a lot better than the OEM pads. I have also bought a set of wheels just for track use. This is mostly so I can have a fresh set to drive home on in case I get carried away at a trackday. I don't consider myself to be a good enough trackday driver to be on semi-slicks yet.

Do u have to declare that to insurance as a modification (brake pads)? Yes, otherwise your policy is potentially void.

Where do you keep the wheels then? How does that work? Most people keep them in the garage and take them to the track with them - takes 15 minutes to change over at the start of the day and 15 minutes at the end. I found it to be too much of a faff though, so bought a toy that runs semi slicks all the time.

Re semislicks - I'm starting with 1.6 mm tread on fronts. By end of day is that semi-slick. Is that ok/safe? What is harder about semi slicks. Though more rubber would be better (in dry)?

Your R8 is 4 wheel drive right? You'll be below the legal limit by the end of the day, on all 4 wheels. If you are unlucky (as I saw a chap with a 911 one day) you will wear the tyres through to the canvas and have to get trailered home at the end of the day (or even earlier, while everyone else laughs). Semi slicks are completely different to knackered road tyres, there is no comparison. Knackered road tyres do not equal semi slicks!

Edit: To the OP - if I had the room, I'd buy a clio 182 (or 200) with cup packs for winter track days between November and March and keep the exige for track days for the rest of the year - you'll have to go a long way to find a better handling FWD car. If you are fortunate enough to have the money and the storage space, it's definitely something I would look into.

Edited by gashead1105 on Monday 16th January 20:47

[Exige S]

I have the same issue. Exige S is not my DD, but still, insurance is £200+ for a trackday, which sucks, never mind consumables. My last trackday was almost £1k if you include the 888's that got vaporized. Plus, it really my wife's car, and if I crashed it, she would no longer ride me like seabiscuit.

I'm on the hunt for a (cheap) Westfield.

[gtdc]

Jakub said:

I cannot say now if my new hobby will stay a hobby in couple of months.

It will. Once it's got you it's not going to g away. accept now that you are ruined, will get more ruined and it'll work so much better. If you don't need a road car then I would have a serious think about something like www.track-group.com and hiring a few different things. That'll give you an idea about what really gets you going.

[Jakub]

gtdc said:

If you don't need a road car then I would have a serious think about something like www.track-group.com and hiring a few different things.

That is very tempting... but will easily come to £1000 per day all inclusive. Cannot afford that :/


Thanks guys.

Just to clarify:
How much cheaper is tracking for example PUG 205 or mx5 than a cayman?
Is it a huge difference? (not thinking about insurance now, just tyres and other things).

What about proper trackday car like this Elise here:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/3556190.htm
Would it be much cheaper to track then the cayman in the long run?

I just try to find out if the differences in spending will be 1000 or 5000 a year (5 track days).

Edited by Jakub on Tuesday 17th January 12:42

[aka_kerrly]

There seems to be a bit of a trend in the last few threads on this forum and that is people with in excess of £30k cars that want to track them and are happy to admit that their tyres are barely legal BEFORE they have been on the track.

Perhaps it's down to driving style but I am have managed to pretty much destroy tyres in 2-3 sessions in the past and if I was doing a day event would either start with very good tyres 5+mm or at least have some spare wheels for the drive home.

If you think of it this way you can spend £500-1000 on a fun little track car that has 15 inch wheels and buy tyres at £50 a corner which is less than what some of you guys will spend replacing 2 tyres on your supercars.

[th85]

What is your motorway car, would it be suitable to tow with?

The way we reduced costs is to keep the track car (formerly 205 GTi now Saxo VTR)in the garage, no tax, MOT or insurance, we have no need to drive it daily. We trailer it to and from track, especially useful if you crash it or break it and it only costs £40ish to rent the trailer locally.

The VTR isn't the best car for track, handles well but underpowered, have had 3 172/182's between me and my brother's and they are a very good track car.

[Jakub]

aka_kerrly said:

There seems to be a bit of a trend in the last few threads on this forum and that is people with in excess of £30k cars that want to track them and are happy to admit that their tyres are barely legal BEFORE they have been on the track.

Perhaps it's down to driving style but I am have managed to pretty much destroy tyres in 2-3 sessions in the past and if I was doing a day event would either start with very good tyres 5+mm or at least have some spare wheels for the drive home.

If you think of it this way you can spend £500-1000 on a fun little track car that has 15 inch wheels and buy tyres at £50 a corner which is less than what some of you guys will spend replacing 2 tyres on your supercars.

I have never ever driven any car to the legal limit on tyres.
My last trackday was a half-day with about 2-2,5h drive time. It was more than enough for me therefore the tyres are not in a bad shape now.

I have to sets of wheels:
17” (F 205/55 R 235/50) and 18” (F 235/40 R 265/40)

17” are cheaper – if I go for the non N-rated tyres (just for trackdays) the cost would be £500-600 a set.
The problem is that there are no trackday tyres in this size 17/55/206. Just the ordinary stuff.

th85 said:

What is your motorway car, would it be suitable to tow with?
The way we reduced costs is to keep the track car (formerly 205 GTi now Saxo VTR)in the garage, no tax, MOT or insurance, we have no need to drive it daily. We trailer it to and from track, especially useful if you crash it or break it and it only costs £40ish to rent the trailer locally.
The VTR isn't the best car for track, handles well but underpowered, have had 3 172/182's between me and my brother's and they are a very good track car.

Hi, yes it is Audi A3, 3.2 quattro, DSG. But I have no space for a trailer and have never driven with one
So no way to avoid tax and road insurance.
This is definitely one of the most expensive hobbies I ever heard of LOL

[th85]

Jakub said:

Hi, yes it is Audi A3, 3.2 quattro, DSG. But I have no space or a trailer and have never driven with one
So no way to avoid tax and road insurance.
This is definitely one of the most expensive hobbies I ever heard of LOL

Driving with a trailer isn't that bad if your licence allows and renting one is the best (cheapest and most convenient I've found) way about it. The only drawback is you need the track car off the road, so either a private driveway or in a garage.

[chris7676]

Jakub said:

Just to clarify:
How much cheaper is tracking for example PUG 205 or mx5 than a cayman?
Is it a huge difference? (not thinking about insurance now, just tyres and other things).

I would say noticeably but not hugely cheaper, with my Boxster S on 17s wheels and Clio 172 on 15s it would be something like below - Boxster / Clio:

• Petrol: 12mpg / 19mpg
• Tyre set: £380 / £200
• Pads + discs: £420 / £250

I noticed (strangely or not) similar brake and tyre wear, but then it has more of it on the heavier, bigger car.

The rest is not so easy to quantify, generally Porsche parts are expensive though.

[braddo]

Consider how much of your enjoyment on the track day was because you were driving the Cayman - the speed/acceleration, balance, feedback etc. Will you still enjoy a track day just as much if you are in a cheap stripped out hot hatch or MX5?

What tracks would you be willing to go to? Would you be happy to drive a track prepared car 200 miles each way?

Are you honestly likely to do more than, say, 6 track days per year given your current lifestyle etc and the weather in the UK? If a track car only gets used 6 times a year and spends the remainder sitting outside, will you be willing to keep it maintained and niggle free or will you need to pay someone to do it?

[framerateuk]

fatboy21 said:

Do u have to declare that to insurance as a modification (brake pads)?

Where do you keep the wheels then? How does that work?

Re semislicks - I'm starting with 1.6 mm tread on fronts. By end of day is that semi-slick. Is that ok/safe? What is harder about semi slicks. Though more rubber would be better (in dry)?

Pads and wheels are declared to the insurance. Greenlight didn't charge me extra for the mods and told me even if I had a remap done they wouldn't charge any more (though I have no intention of doing this).

In regards to the tyres, I mean semi slick trackday tyres like Toyo 888's or Yokohama AD08's. I believe you have to be pushing the car quite hard to get enough heat in the tyres for semi-slicks. While I could easily do this on my local track in Llandow, I don't know any other tracks well enough to be that comitted, so I'd rather stick with my PS2's or another sports tyre.

I'll run track tyres until they hit the marker, after that I'll get rid of them. I'm due a new set at the moment, so I'll have to get a brand new set of 4 before I start tracking the car this year! Not a cheap hobby at £200 a corner!

Keep one thing in mind though, if you were driving an MX-5 on a track, would you wish you were in your Porsche? I know I'd wish I was in my Megane if I was driving something else...