Second hand slicks and other forms of tyre cheapness

[(steven)]

The last track day of the year scrubbed 3mm off my front tyres [fwd car on an airfield] and if I do that again, my tyres will be borderline illegal on the drive home.

Therefore I’m debating getting a second set of rims for track day use, however what is the most cost efficient tyre option?

OEM I can either get 17 or 16 inch wheels.

New 17 inch road tyres are going to cost me about £140 a corner or £75 for 16 inch which given their lifespan seems excessive (I used to run an Mx5 and I got used to £40 tyres).

My alternatives seem to be

- Remould tarmac rally tyres at £70 a corner – Some people suggest this can lead to oil starvation issues due to levels of grip
- Used touring car slicks - £38 a corner – Same issue as above and absolutely no water tread, about 65% tread left.
- Used road tyres - £30 a corner for decent brand, about 4mm left although can’t be assured it will be a “sporty” brand

Do I just put track orientated tyres on the front or do I put them on all round?

Thanks

[MikeATD]

Definitely go for second hand slicks ideally on secondhand wheels. If you do a day and it rains, keep road tyres on. A wet trackday should not wreck them too much. When you try slicks you will be amazed by the grip, just male sure rest of the car is up to it.

[Greg_D]

where would one get hold of these tyres, just ring race teams or is there an online portal somewhere.

I've seen it myself, teams putting new boots on EVERY session and just disposing of dozens of tyres that have done maybe half a dozen laps at the end of the day. The money that some people seem happy to pour at motorsport appears endless.

[jonnyleroux]

Running slick tyres isn't the cheap solution some people think it is. Yes, you will save money on tyres, but the energy generated by the extra grip has to go somewhere (conservation of energy) in generally means brakes & suspension will take a battering.

Add to that the likelihood of the car rolling being increased exponentially, and there's more to think about than a tyre bill.

Jonny
BaT

[andy798]

I thought that most TDOs insisted that a cage is fitted if you run slicks?

[jonnyleroux]

andy798 said:

I thought that most TDOs insisted that a cage is fitted if you run slicks?

We (BookaTrack) certainly do, but I know quite a few TDO's that dont.

Jonny
BaT

[(steven)]

andy798 said:

I thought that most TDOs insisted that a cage is fitted if you run slicks?

Why is this? Is this just because your going faster and therefore any crash is going to be at a higher speed or do slicks create other problems?

Do used slicks really bring that much more speed (in a road car) than say a set of decent track day tyres?

[jonnyleroux]

Road cars are not designed to have that much lateral force. I've seen cars roll just by nudging a kerb when running slicks. The difference between a decent set of slicks and track day tyres like R888's is great than the difference between a cheap road tyre and the R888's.

Jonny
BaT

[GC8]

Further to what Jonny said in his earlier post, the car struggles to deal with the forces generated.

Itd be a mistake to think that you can generate so much more cornering force without overwhelming the standard bodyshell. It doesnt take too long before your car will turn into a big blancmange...

[m444ttb]

I've seen relatively standard track day cars (i.e. coilovers and polly bushes, even with a cage) splitting at the seems. That won't be good for the long term!

[deviant]

Greg_D said:

where would one get hold of these tyres, just ring race teams or is there an online portal somewhere.

I've seen it myself, teams putting new boots on EVERY session and just disposing of dozens of tyres that have done maybe half a dozen laps at the end of the day. The money that some people seem happy to pour at motorsport appears endless.

You can find them on Ebay but by the time a club racer is ready to let them go they might only have tens of laps in them or they have rubber left on them but have been heat cycled to oblivion.

If you live in an area where there seems to be a lot of motorsport stuff there will probably be a tyre place everyone uses. Try them for used stuff.

Not sure what professional teams do with their old tyres, I should imagine that they get given to the big tyre truck you see at those sorts of events and they handle the disposal. Tyres from this level might not be of any use to you though as they are generally constructed to be specific to the cars running in the series and might be totally wrong for your car.

For the OP, Is 16in really the smallest wheel you can fit on the car? 15in has a much bigger range of tyres available and cheaper to.
Get a new set of R888's or similar. They wear better than road tyres on track and they have a heap more grip than road tyres without causing the issues that slicks will. There is enough of a grip increase that you will need to pay attention to your brakes.

[gtdc]

jonnyleroux said:

andy798 said:

I thought that most TDOs insisted that a cage is fitted if you run slicks?

We (BookaTrack) certainly do, but I know quite a few TDO's that dont.

Jonny
BaT

We don't.

[Rgm racer]

jonnyleroux said:

Running slick tyres isn't the cheap solution some people think it is. Yes, you will save money on tyres, but the energy generated by the extra grip has to go somewhere (conservation of energy) in generally means brakes & suspension will take a battering.

Add to that the likelihood of the car rolling being increased exponentially, and there's more to think about than a tyre bill.

Jonny
BaT

I can understand the suspension would be under a lot more strain,is the mention of brakes down to extra speed you'll be carrying so more force needed to brake?
Also what do you think of the "turning to blamange" and "splitting at the seams" quotes in other replies,reality or somewhat exagerated?
I have a Seat Leon Cupra R mk1 [use as track car but road legal],kw clubsports,poly bushed,basic welded in cage,race eng.mounts,arb's.front strut brace,stripped out etc.but not seam welded.Have been running R888/AO48 but was looking to run slicks this year,would you say this would be ok in such a car or not adviseable at all? I do see quite a few similar cars out there with slicks on. Would seam welding make big difference to situation?

[deviant]

Rgm racer said:

jonnyleroux said:

Running slick tyres isn't the cheap solution some people think it is. Yes, you will save money on tyres, but the energy generated by the extra grip has to go somewhere (conservation of energy) in generally means brakes & suspension will take a battering.

Add to that the likelihood of the car rolling being increased exponentially, and there's more to think about than a tyre bill.

Jonny
BaT

I can understand the suspension would be under a lot more strain,is the mention of brakes down to extra speed you'll be carrying so more force needed to brake?
Also what do you think of the "turning to blamange" and "splitting at the seams" quotes in other replies,reality or somewhat exagerated?
I have a Seat Leon Cupra R mk1 [use as track car but road legal],kw clubsports,poly bushed,basic welded in cage,race eng.mounts,arb's.front strut brace,stripped out etc.but not seam welded.Have been running R888/AO48 but was looking to run slicks this year,would you say this would be ok in such a car or not adviseable at all? I do see quite a few similar cars out there with slicks on. Would seam welding make big difference to situation?

Not so much the extra speed carried through a corner and down a straight but more that with a set of slicks you can lean on the brakes way way harder than on road tyres. If you had stock standard brakes on a car and fitted slicks I doubt you would be able to lock them / trigger ABS standing on the brakes as hard as you can, that is going to generate a huge amount of heat and energy.

With huge grip your suspension works harder. Normally your car leans on the suspension and then the tyres start to slip but with slicks and road biased suspension the car will lean over...and lean and lean before the tyres slip.

Sounds like your Seat would be stiff enough to cope but I wouldnt go for a soft slick tyre. Once you get in to running slicks you will need to keep on top of your post / pre track inspections...wheel bearings, CV joints, anti roll bar links and mounts, steering joints all cop a flogging. If you have power steering it might boil.

To get the most in terms of grip and life out of a slick you might need to get the alignment changed, it will be very aggressive.

[jon-]

Get some cheap hard horrible budget tyres.

If you buy the right ditch finders they'll last forever, and as track days aren't about the ultimate laptime, you'll learn more and have more fun as your car will be sliding in every direction possible (and perhaps some new ones that aren't possible if it rains)

[Rgm racer]

deviant said:

Not so much the extra speed carried through a corner and down a straight but more that with a set of slicks you can lean on the brakes way way harder than on road tyres. If you had stock standard brakes on a car and fitted slicks I doubt you would be able to lock them / trigger ABS standing on the brakes as hard as you can, that is going to generate a huge amount of heat and energy.

With huge grip your suspension works harder. Normally your car leans on the suspension and then the tyres start to slip but with slicks and road biased suspension the car will lean over...and lean and lean before the tyres slip.

Sounds like your Seat would be stiff enough to cope but I wouldnt go for a soft slick tyre. Once you get in to running slicks you will need to keep on top of your post / pre track inspections...wheel bearings, CV joints, anti roll bar links and mounts, steering joints all cop a flogging. If you have power steering it might boil.

To get the most in terms of grip and life out of a slick you might need to get the alignment changed, it will be very aggressive.

Thanks for informative reply.
I expect I will try a harder set and see how I get on.

[D_G]

I'd agree with deviant, my car is 1250kg and medium Yoko 048r is the right tyre for me. Putting soft slicks on it would melt them, maybe harder ones not so much but you need to have some slip on the limit with a tin top. I wouldn't scrimp on tyres or brakes when racing, it's the only two things that can help stop you having a crash if you get it wrong....

[kimducati]

Dont necessarily agree with all of the 'sky falling in' posts above, but definately more strain will be put on all suspension / steering components.
In particular, keep a close eye on suspension ball joints, I've seen them snap like a carrot when slicks are used.
Kim

[jonnyleroux]

kimducati said:

Dont necessarily agree with all of the 'sky falling in' posts above, but .... I've seen them snap like a carrot when slicks are used.Kim

errrrrrrrrr

[kimducati]

jonnyleroux said:

errrrrrrrrr

The emphasis was meant to be on the word ALL.
I thought the context was clear - apologies if not.
Kim