Castle Coombe Fri 1st June £170
Discussion
Thinking of doing this track day.... 100dB Static Noise Limit... £170 for full day which seems a pretty decent priced compared with what BookaTrack charge.. Anyone else interested ?? Book direct with castle coombe.
I've mailed them to see if they're ATDO/FAEO registered so that i'm covered by my insurance first before I book tho...
I've mailed them to see if they're ATDO/FAEO registered so that i'm covered by my insurance first before I book tho...
RedSpike66 said:
Why do yo say that Johnny ?? Surely there will be a max no of cars that can register ??
Absolutely not. My issue with the phrase "open pit lane" is that it implies you can head out of the pitlane whenever you want, but if there's 30 cars booked on the day that's not going to be possible. Hence why we offer a no-queues guarantee and hence why our prices are higher - it's a known quantity and you know what you're getting for your money.RedSpike66 said:
Or is that your point, that either toooooo many cars, bad for clients, or toooooo few cars, no profit for TDO ??
Exactly this. I know what Apex will be paying for the circuit for the day and the maths don't stack up.I don't want everyone to think this is sour grapes and I would have left this thread well alone had we not been explicitly mentioned as being "too expensive" by the OP.
Jonny
BaT
I have done Combe twice now with javelin open pit both times, £139 first time and £119 last time. They let 12 cars out on track at any time and I have never waited more than 5 minutes to go out. I have just booked it again through apex for the 30th of this month for £149 open pit so there are a few good deals out there.
It's not really rocket science concerning pricing. Putting it all simplictically .....
Circuit hire charge, plus insurance, plus instructors, plus admin, plus expenses getting there, plus hotels (sometimes), plus feeding and watering the team on the day, plus paperwork and printing, plus wrist bands, plus other overheads of running the company, plus anything else I've forgotten = costs for the day. And that pricing includes no wages for the poor old TDO by the way.
Maximum number of cars for a good open pit lane day is not much more than twice the on-track circuit limit. Divide costs for the day by number of cars = break even pricing. Ignoring any extras like charging for passengers and extra drivers and tuition. So if that's all free .......
The TDO has to make a profit on the day or go bust. The above assumes the day is full so what about the risk of the day not being full and still make a profit? Where are the contingencies to cover this over the year when running a large number of days?
You basically get nothing for nothing in this world so I think you have to ask why is it so cheap?
David
BHP
Circuit hire charge, plus insurance, plus instructors, plus admin, plus expenses getting there, plus hotels (sometimes), plus feeding and watering the team on the day, plus paperwork and printing, plus wrist bands, plus other overheads of running the company, plus anything else I've forgotten = costs for the day. And that pricing includes no wages for the poor old TDO by the way.
Maximum number of cars for a good open pit lane day is not much more than twice the on-track circuit limit. Divide costs for the day by number of cars = break even pricing. Ignoring any extras like charging for passengers and extra drivers and tuition. So if that's all free .......
The TDO has to make a profit on the day or go bust. The above assumes the day is full so what about the risk of the day not being full and still make a profit? Where are the contingencies to cover this over the year when running a large number of days?
You basically get nothing for nothing in this world so I think you have to ask why is it so cheap?
David
BHP
jonnyleroux said:
RedSpike66 said:
Why do yo say that Johnny ?? Surely there will be a max no of cars that can register ??
Absolutely not. My issue with the phrase "open pit lane" is that it implies you can head out of the pitlane whenever you want, but if there's 30 cars booked on the day that's not going to be possible. Hence why we offer a no-queues guarantee and hence why our prices are higher - it's a known quantity and you know what you're getting for your money.On your day on 28 February, according to your gallery you had 28 attendees. With a limit of 12 on track how do you guarantee no queues?
RedSpike66 said:
Or is that your point, that either toooooo many cars, bad for clients, or toooooo few cars, no profit for TDO ??
Exactly this. I know what Apex will be paying for the circuit for the day and the maths don't stack up.Do you really? May be I am happier for a much lower profit for the day.
I don't want everyone to think this is sour grapes and I would have left this thread well alone had we not been explicitly mentioned as being "too expensive" by the OP.
Jonny
BaT
David White 10 said:
It's not really rocket science concerning pricing. Putting it all simplictically .....
Circuit hire charge, plus insurance, plus instructors, plus admin, plus expenses getting there, plus hotels (sometimes), plus feeding and watering the team on the day, plus paperwork and printing, plus wrist bands, plus other overheads of running the company, plus anything else I've forgotten = costs for the day. And that pricing includes no wages for the poor old TDO by the way.
Maximum number of cars for a good open pit lane day is not much more than twice the on-track circuit limit. Divide costs for the day by number of cars = break even pricing. Ignoring any extras like charging for passengers and extra drivers and tuition. So if that's all free .......
On your day on the 23rd April you are advertising it as max no of attendees as 36.
The TDO has to make a profit on the day or go bust. The above assumes the day is full so what about the risk of the day not being full and still make a profit? Where are the contingencies to cover this over the year when running a large number of days?
Depends what your overheads are. You do not know mine any more than I know yours.
You basically get nothing for nothing in this world so I think you have to ask why is it so cheap?
Exactly. I have been happy to quote maximum number of attendees. I also may be able to deal with a lower profit level for the day.
Do you charge for extra drivers, passengers and tuition?
David
BHP
Circuit hire charge, plus insurance, plus instructors, plus admin, plus expenses getting there, plus hotels (sometimes), plus feeding and watering the team on the day, plus paperwork and printing, plus wrist bands, plus other overheads of running the company, plus anything else I've forgotten = costs for the day. And that pricing includes no wages for the poor old TDO by the way.
Maximum number of cars for a good open pit lane day is not much more than twice the on-track circuit limit. Divide costs for the day by number of cars = break even pricing. Ignoring any extras like charging for passengers and extra drivers and tuition. So if that's all free .......
On your day on the 23rd April you are advertising it as max no of attendees as 36.
The TDO has to make a profit on the day or go bust. The above assumes the day is full so what about the risk of the day not being full and still make a profit? Where are the contingencies to cover this over the year when running a large number of days?
Depends what your overheads are. You do not know mine any more than I know yours.
You basically get nothing for nothing in this world so I think you have to ask why is it so cheap?
Exactly. I have been happy to quote maximum number of attendees. I also may be able to deal with a lower profit level for the day.
Do you charge for extra drivers, passengers and tuition?
David
BHP
MikeATD said:
On your day on 28 February, according to your gallery you had 28 attendees. With a limit of 12 on track how do you guarantee no queues?
Assuming you mean 11th February (we weren't at Combe on the 28th), then we had 28 different cars on the day as depicted by the photo gallery, not all of them attended for a full day and if you look closely you'll see that a few of them are the same driver with 2 different cars. I have nothing to hide and never have. Contrary to what many people think we are not rip-off merchants - we charge a higher price for a premium service.
You and I both know that by running with 28 cars at Combe on the 30th April on a 12-car day at £149 inc VAT (I notice it's now showing as full on your website) you are running at a loss. I'm sure David (BHP) will agree with me when I ask you not to try and make the competition look like the bad guys for running serious businesses with long-term viability.
Jonny
BaT
So, looking at a few websites, just for Castle Coombe events..
BHP - 36 cars max - £195
Apex - 40 cars max - £159
BaT - 19 cars max - £295
If there's anyhting wrong with the above, please correct
But if Coombe has 12 cars on track max, there's a siginificantly higher chance of queueing with 36 or 40 cars booked than 19 me thinks...
BHP - 36 cars max - £195
Apex - 40 cars max - £159
BaT - 19 cars max - £295
If there's anyhting wrong with the above, please correct
But if Coombe has 12 cars on track max, there's a siginificantly higher chance of queueing with 36 or 40 cars booked than 19 me thinks...
My pricing structure is my business.
I limit the day to 40, 4 more than BHP. What is your maximum number of attendees at Castle Combe?
I will make no comment about things I do not know and have not ever said you were a rip off merchant. Likewise please do not comment about whether my customers, or me for that matter will have a "bad" day.
You have been running for 10 years and clearly have a good and loyal customer base.
On our trackdays at other circuits, we have a maximum of double the number permitted on track (as recommended by the circuits for an open pitlane event) as I assume you do. As a new company, you have to be competitive on price and provide a good product or service, which I hope we do.
BHP and yourself being fellow member of the ATDO, I am suprised how you both are keen to comment in a public way about how good or bad our days are going to be when you have a, never attended one of our days to the best of my knowledge and b, I have only met you once over 5 years ago at Donington and have never met anybody from BHP. Concentrate on your customers and I will concentrate on mine.
Mike
I limit the day to 40, 4 more than BHP. What is your maximum number of attendees at Castle Combe?
I will make no comment about things I do not know and have not ever said you were a rip off merchant. Likewise please do not comment about whether my customers, or me for that matter will have a "bad" day.
You have been running for 10 years and clearly have a good and loyal customer base.
On our trackdays at other circuits, we have a maximum of double the number permitted on track (as recommended by the circuits for an open pitlane event) as I assume you do. As a new company, you have to be competitive on price and provide a good product or service, which I hope we do.
BHP and yourself being fellow member of the ATDO, I am suprised how you both are keen to comment in a public way about how good or bad our days are going to be when you have a, never attended one of our days to the best of my knowledge and b, I have only met you once over 5 years ago at Donington and have never met anybody from BHP. Concentrate on your customers and I will concentrate on mine.
Mike
jonnyleroux said:
Assuming you mean 11th February (we weren't at Combe on the 28th), then we had 28 different cars on the day as depicted by the photo gallery, not all of them attended for a full day and if you look closely you'll see that a few of them are the same driver with 2 different cars.
I have nothing to hide and never have. Contrary to what many people think we are not rip-off merchants - we charge a higher price for a premium service.
You and I both know that by running with 28 cars at Combe on the 30th April on a 12-car day at £149 inc VAT (I notice it's now showing as full on your website) you are running at a loss. I'm sure David (BHP) will agree with me when I ask you not to try and make the competition look like the bad guys for running serious businesses with long-term viability.
Jonny
BaT
I have nothing to hide and never have. Contrary to what many people think we are not rip-off merchants - we charge a higher price for a premium service.
You and I both know that by running with 28 cars at Combe on the 30th April on a 12-car day at £149 inc VAT (I notice it's now showing as full on your website) you are running at a loss. I'm sure David (BHP) will agree with me when I ask you not to try and make the competition look like the bad guys for running serious businesses with long-term viability.
Jonny
BaT
Of course, if there are more attendees, the more you are likely you are to queue. Not sure of BAT's max no of attendees, but BHP appears to be 36 looking at their site.
RedSpike66 said:
So, looking at a few websites, just for Castle Coombe events..
BHP - 36 cars max - £195
Apex - 40 cars max - £159
BaT - 19 cars max - £295
If there's anyhting wrong with the above, please correct
But if Coombe has 12 cars on track max, there's a siginificantly higher chance of queueing with 36 or 40 cars booked than 19 me thinks...
BHP - 36 cars max - £195
Apex - 40 cars max - £159
BaT - 19 cars max - £295
If there's anyhting wrong with the above, please correct
But if Coombe has 12 cars on track max, there's a siginificantly higher chance of queueing with 36 or 40 cars booked than 19 me thinks...
I have no desire to prolong this debate any further. Suffice to say that as long you keep under-selling track days and we (BaT) get comments like "a pretty decent priced compared with what BookaTrack charge" then I am always going to defend myself. I was charging £169 for Castle Combe track days back in 1999 and maintain that your pricing is neither reasonable or sustainable.
That said, it was entirely wrong of me to make assumptions as to what level of profit/loss would affect your mood and I therefore unreservedly apologise for suggesting either your clients or you will have a bad day at Combe on the 30th.
Jonny
BaT
That said, it was entirely wrong of me to make assumptions as to what level of profit/loss would affect your mood and I therefore unreservedly apologise for suggesting either your clients or you will have a bad day at Combe on the 30th.
Jonny
BaT
We run with a few half days so it depends on the mix how many total cars for the day we have but at Combe, the max we run with in the morning is 30 and max afternoon is 36. We can get a pit lane queue imediately after lunch for around 15 minutes or so. The rest of the day is pretty much queue free normally.
Oulton is 70 cars max, Donington 70, Cadwell 60.
David
BHP
Oulton is 70 cars max, Donington 70, Cadwell 60.
David
BHP
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