Donington 30th May Apex
Discussion
Not good at Donington Thursday evening, Black flagged for 99.4db plus passing of a Golf on Pit sraight was without consent as flair wasn't set off to acknowledge you are now allowed to pass... Not to mention partial sabatical as Council were rang up by screaming neighbours that they were unable to watch Emmerdale without distraction. Only allowed to resume once credits then adverts came on!!!
During their attempted pisspoor reprimand in Paddock a vast passenger Jet flew over shaking the track & beyond to its foundations, incredible scenario as 14 more soon followed plus a dozen or so beforehand... Shame Concorde, SR-71 Blackbird, B17 Bomber the lot didn't fly over or Maverick & Iceman in F-16's filmimg new Topgun 2 film coming soon to a Cinema near you
To think F1 was going to be moved there from Silverstone is beyond beliefe
Selwyn
During their attempted pisspoor reprimand in Paddock a vast passenger Jet flew over shaking the track & beyond to its foundations, incredible scenario as 14 more soon followed plus a dozen or so beforehand... Shame Concorde, SR-71 Blackbird, B17 Bomber the lot didn't fly over or Maverick & Iceman in F-16's filmimg new Topgun 2 film coming soon to a Cinema near you
To think F1 was going to be moved there from Silverstone is beyond beliefe
Selwyn
shaunsmith said:
Not good at Donington Thursday evening, Black flagged for 99.4db plus passing of a Golf on Pit sraight was without consent as flair wasn't set off to acknowledge you are now allowed to pass... Not to mention partial sabatical as Council were rang up by screaming neighbours that they were unable to watch Emmerdale without distraction. Only allowed to resume once credits then adverts came on!!!
During their attempted pisspoor reprimand in Paddock a vast passenger Jet flew over shaking the track & beyond to its foundations, incredible scenario as 14 more soon followed plus a dozen or so beforehand... Shame Concorde, SR-71 Blackbird, B17 Bomber the lot didn't fly over or Maverick & Iceman in F-16's filmimg new Topgun 2 film coming soon to a Cinema near you
To think F1 was going to be moved there from Silverstone is beyond beliefe
Selwyn
Just to dispel a couple of myths. 99.4dB is *not* a small percentage louder than 98dB. Some people think that it's circa 2% difference. The dB scale is logarithmic with a factor of 10, which means that each 3dB is approximately twice as loud. In reality, your 99.4dB is in the order of 20-30% louder than a car at 98dB. Or something - i'm no mathematician.During their attempted pisspoor reprimand in Paddock a vast passenger Jet flew over shaking the track & beyond to its foundations, incredible scenario as 14 more soon followed plus a dozen or so beforehand... Shame Concorde, SR-71 Blackbird, B17 Bomber the lot didn't fly over or Maverick & Iceman in F-16's filmimg new Topgun 2 film coming soon to a Cinema near you
To think F1 was going to be moved there from Silverstone is beyond beliefe
Selwyn
Additionally, and i've mentioned this before on PH so apologies for repeating myself, the airport is subject to the same *average* noise levels as the circuit. One very noisy plane taking off every 5-10 minutes is roughly the same as 30 fairly quiet cars pounding round the circuit constantly.
The harsh truth of this situation is that if we all want Donington Park to still be around in the future then we need to adhere to the noise limits - regardless of how annoying they might be. It is the TDO's responsibility to work closely with the circuit and the clients to ensure minimal disruption to all concerned.
Having personally organised events at Donington Park for over a decade, I have a pretty good idea of what is/isn't going to pass the noise testing there and am in the perfect position to highlight possible issues to clients before they leave home. Ignorance really isn't an option here - if in doubt, ASK.
Jonny
BaT
jonnyleroux said:
shaunsmith said:
Not good at Donington Thursday evening, Black flagged for 99.4db plus passing of a Golf on Pit sraight was without consent as flair wasn't set off to acknowledge you are now allowed to pass... Not to mention partial sabatical as Council were rang up by screaming neighbours that they were unable to watch Emmerdale without distraction. Only allowed to resume once credits then adverts came on!!!
During their attempted pisspoor reprimand in Paddock a vast passenger Jet flew over shaking the track & beyond to its foundations, incredible scenario as 14 more soon followed plus a dozen or so beforehand... Shame Concorde, SR-71 Blackbird, B17 Bomber the lot didn't fly over or Maverick & Iceman in F-16's filmimg new Topgun 2 film coming soon to a Cinema near you
To think F1 was going to be moved there from Silverstone is beyond beliefe
Selwyn
Just to dispel a couple of myths. 99.4dB is *not* a small percentage louder than 98dB. Some people think that it's circa 2% difference. The dB scale is logarithmic with a factor of 10, which means that each 3dB is approximately twice as loud. In reality, your 99.4dB is in the order of 20-30% louder than a car at 98dB. Or something - i'm no mathematician.During their attempted pisspoor reprimand in Paddock a vast passenger Jet flew over shaking the track & beyond to its foundations, incredible scenario as 14 more soon followed plus a dozen or so beforehand... Shame Concorde, SR-71 Blackbird, B17 Bomber the lot didn't fly over or Maverick & Iceman in F-16's filmimg new Topgun 2 film coming soon to a Cinema near you
To think F1 was going to be moved there from Silverstone is beyond beliefe
Selwyn
Additionally, and i've mentioned this before on PH so apologies for repeating myself, the airport is subject to the same *average* noise levels as the circuit. One very noisy plane taking off every 5-10 minutes is roughly the same as 30 fairly quiet cars pounding round the circuit constantly.
The harsh truth of this situation is that if we all want Donington Park to still be around in the future then we need to adhere to the noise limits - regardless of how annoying they might be. It is the TDO's responsibility to work closely with the circuit and the clients to ensure minimal disruption to all concerned.
Having personally organised events at Donington Park for over a decade, I have a pretty good idea of what is/isn't going to pass the noise testing there and am in the perfect position to highlight possible issues to clients before they leave home. Ignorance really isn't an option here - if in doubt, ASK.
Jonny
BaT
Many cars were backing off at the senser including me then 'larging it' around the rest of the track & some cars were extremely loud but strategically lifted were senser is only.
In regards to the planes this particular huge Jet was on reverse thrust coming in to land & the noise was near deafening which to me was laughable in context at the time. The only plane with any kind of acceptable noise was a little twin prop Fokker...
It is a shame with tracks like Donington & Croft to name a few the noise restrictions a playing a seamingly big factor in future trackdays.
See ye at Croft.
Cheers
Full text of the message from Apex:
Donington Trackday 30 May 2012-05-25
It is with deep regret that we have unfortunately had to cancel this event at Donington Park.
The reason for this is as follows.
The situation with drive by noise at Donington Park in 2012 is this. A quiet Trackday has a drive by limit of 98 db measured from a sound meter on the pit wall and possibly further measuring devices around the circuit. All circuits have noise restrictions imposed on them by their Local Authority and unfortunately for Donington, particularly oddly as they are next to an airport, their noise limits are quite low on these “quiet” days.
This year, imposing these limits are clear in that if a car exceeds 98db it will be black flagged. The driver has the opportunity to quieten the car. If this does not work successfully they will not be allowed on track for the rest of the event. This is non negotiable. Our days at Donington are advertised as 98db days on our website and on various listing websites and Trackday broker sites. Our confirmation email that is sent to all attendees prior to the event states this noise policy clearly. This policy is repeated in the safety briefing.
At a recent event we experienced a number of black flag incidents within the first hour. We assisted these drivers with noise reducing exhaust inserts that can reduce drive by noise by up to 3db in some cases. In some cases this worked and in some it did not. A few of the cars were asked to finish due to this, a Peugeot 306, a Chevron recreation race car which had quiet and new exhausts fitted especially for the event, 2 Porsche 911 turbos, both standard and less than 2 years old and a Noble M400. A couple of the black flagged cars were adequately silenced and were allowed to continue, these included a Mazda MX5, a Ford Focus RS and a BMW 325i racecar. We were warned that if we got any more noise violations the event would finish, all cars removed from the track regardless of how loud they were. After this there were the odd noise incident and a technical stoppage was enforced meaning all cars left the track until we were able to ask the offending driver to leave. In every other Trackday I have done at Donington, this includes a number of events we organised there in 2011 and 15 years of trackdays I have attended at the circuit as a customer this has never happened. In all cases, the offending car was black flagged and the other cars were left to use the circuit as before.
Because of this we were imposed a zero tolerance policy on noise at all our future trackdays at Donington. We have been asked to pay a £3000 bond and if 1 car exceeded the 98db noise reading the bond would be held by the circuit. Furthermore the circuit owners could shut the circuit for the rest of the day with nil refund. On analysis of the noise data, some specific cars were mentioned as having exceeded the limit and in a number of cases the cause of the breach was classed as “group” This means a number of cars pass the meter and the cumulative noise exceeded 98db. We were not prepared to accept the additional terms and did not want to risk the day being cut short if there was an infringement which in reality, we have no real control of. In effect we had to cancel the event together with all our other trackdays at Donington Park. We have not taken this decision lightly.
We set up in business last year and from doing 15 events last year we planned to increase this to over 20 this year. We have never before cancelled a Trackday. In a number of cases in our first year numbers for certain events have been very low and we have lost significant amounts on a day. We would not cancel the event though as customers have set aside time and money for these events and we are 100% committed to ensure our customers have an enjoyable, safe and good value experience on our days.
We will be looking to replace the days now cancelled however we will offer a full refund or credit note if preferred for the amount you have paid for this event, including, where applicable garages or additional driver costs for the full value. In the event of a full refund being requested, this can be by way of a cheque by return or a direct payment into your account.
We have tried frantically to book another track for Wednesday as a replacement but have been un-successful. We have also checked other events on the 30th and have noticed a day at Cadwell Park in Lincolnshire advertised through http://www.trackdays.co.uk ; which may be of interest. This is not being run by ourselves.
We are extremely sorry to have cancelled this at such short notice but this only happened today. Please be assured that you will receive our best attention at all times, and for the customers who have not used us before, we sincerely hope to see you again during the year.
Donington Trackday 30 May 2012-05-25
It is with deep regret that we have unfortunately had to cancel this event at Donington Park.
The reason for this is as follows.
The situation with drive by noise at Donington Park in 2012 is this. A quiet Trackday has a drive by limit of 98 db measured from a sound meter on the pit wall and possibly further measuring devices around the circuit. All circuits have noise restrictions imposed on them by their Local Authority and unfortunately for Donington, particularly oddly as they are next to an airport, their noise limits are quite low on these “quiet” days.
This year, imposing these limits are clear in that if a car exceeds 98db it will be black flagged. The driver has the opportunity to quieten the car. If this does not work successfully they will not be allowed on track for the rest of the event. This is non negotiable. Our days at Donington are advertised as 98db days on our website and on various listing websites and Trackday broker sites. Our confirmation email that is sent to all attendees prior to the event states this noise policy clearly. This policy is repeated in the safety briefing.
At a recent event we experienced a number of black flag incidents within the first hour. We assisted these drivers with noise reducing exhaust inserts that can reduce drive by noise by up to 3db in some cases. In some cases this worked and in some it did not. A few of the cars were asked to finish due to this, a Peugeot 306, a Chevron recreation race car which had quiet and new exhausts fitted especially for the event, 2 Porsche 911 turbos, both standard and less than 2 years old and a Noble M400. A couple of the black flagged cars were adequately silenced and were allowed to continue, these included a Mazda MX5, a Ford Focus RS and a BMW 325i racecar. We were warned that if we got any more noise violations the event would finish, all cars removed from the track regardless of how loud they were. After this there were the odd noise incident and a technical stoppage was enforced meaning all cars left the track until we were able to ask the offending driver to leave. In every other Trackday I have done at Donington, this includes a number of events we organised there in 2011 and 15 years of trackdays I have attended at the circuit as a customer this has never happened. In all cases, the offending car was black flagged and the other cars were left to use the circuit as before.
Because of this we were imposed a zero tolerance policy on noise at all our future trackdays at Donington. We have been asked to pay a £3000 bond and if 1 car exceeded the 98db noise reading the bond would be held by the circuit. Furthermore the circuit owners could shut the circuit for the rest of the day with nil refund. On analysis of the noise data, some specific cars were mentioned as having exceeded the limit and in a number of cases the cause of the breach was classed as “group” This means a number of cars pass the meter and the cumulative noise exceeded 98db. We were not prepared to accept the additional terms and did not want to risk the day being cut short if there was an infringement which in reality, we have no real control of. In effect we had to cancel the event together with all our other trackdays at Donington Park. We have not taken this decision lightly.
We set up in business last year and from doing 15 events last year we planned to increase this to over 20 this year. We have never before cancelled a Trackday. In a number of cases in our first year numbers for certain events have been very low and we have lost significant amounts on a day. We would not cancel the event though as customers have set aside time and money for these events and we are 100% committed to ensure our customers have an enjoyable, safe and good value experience on our days.
We will be looking to replace the days now cancelled however we will offer a full refund or credit note if preferred for the amount you have paid for this event, including, where applicable garages or additional driver costs for the full value. In the event of a full refund being requested, this can be by way of a cheque by return or a direct payment into your account.
We have tried frantically to book another track for Wednesday as a replacement but have been un-successful. We have also checked other events on the 30th and have noticed a day at Cadwell Park in Lincolnshire advertised through http://www.trackdays.co.uk ; which may be of interest. This is not being run by ourselves.
We are extremely sorry to have cancelled this at such short notice but this only happened today. Please be assured that you will receive our best attention at all times, and for the customers who have not used us before, we sincerely hope to see you again during the year.
I know we all have to consider everbody else and what their 'hobbies and interests' are, be it Coronation Street or Track Days, but it seems anyone making noise (however loud) is becoming an easier and easier target, meaning our hobby is going to continue to suffer, unless we all turn up with highly muffled exhausts and keep the beaurocrats and nimby's happy.
What a great democracy we live in... I hope BaT, Apex etc. can find a resolution and/or other opportunites, however unfair this seems.
You can imagine the noise from the Typhoon and the F16 at the air show I was at yesterday... and thousands of people were there loving it.. and there's plenty of houses nearby, who seem quite happy enjoying the free airshow too..
Seems it's the minority who always win over the majority in this country !
What a great democracy we live in... I hope BaT, Apex etc. can find a resolution and/or other opportunites, however unfair this seems.
You can imagine the noise from the Typhoon and the F16 at the air show I was at yesterday... and thousands of people were there loving it.. and there's plenty of houses nearby, who seem quite happy enjoying the free airshow too..
Seems it's the minority who always win over the majority in this country !
This sort of stuff really annoys me. You would think with all the complaints houses next to race circuits would be cheap and I could buy one and get a constant fix of motors, but no they're always expensive and bought by people who want peace and quite. Damn them, damn them all to hell!!!!!
nick
nick
Before hysteria sets in and any permanent damage is done to either Donington Park or the other TDO's that successfully operate there, I want to re-iterate that there are *NO* noise issues at Donington Park. There is a strict 98dB noise limit (as there always has been since I started renting the place in late 90's). As long as your car passes this noise limit you will not have any problems.
The vast majority of the cars that book with BaT for Donington Park do not have an issue. This includes 911's, Caterhams, Lotuses etc etc.
On average we probably send home 1 car per track day - maybe 2 on a bad day. Usually kit cars with inadequate exhausts (bike engined cars with original bike silencer for example), or turbo nutter barges with dustbin exhausts.
It is highly unlikely that any standard road car with a servicable exhaust will fail the noise limit. Even 911 GT3's tend to be OK when the "Sport" button is left unactivated.
Phrases such as "even an MX5 failed noise testing" are not helpful and undoubtdely does not tell the full story.
Apex may have taken the commercial decision not to operate at Donington Park because their customer base are either generally too noisy, or generally unaware of their noise, or unwilling to do anything about it. Clearly this is no reflection on either Donington Park or the other TDO's who successfully operate there.
Jonny
BaT
The vast majority of the cars that book with BaT for Donington Park do not have an issue. This includes 911's, Caterhams, Lotuses etc etc.
On average we probably send home 1 car per track day - maybe 2 on a bad day. Usually kit cars with inadequate exhausts (bike engined cars with original bike silencer for example), or turbo nutter barges with dustbin exhausts.
It is highly unlikely that any standard road car with a servicable exhaust will fail the noise limit. Even 911 GT3's tend to be OK when the "Sport" button is left unactivated.
Phrases such as "even an MX5 failed noise testing" are not helpful and undoubtdely does not tell the full story.
Apex may have taken the commercial decision not to operate at Donington Park because their customer base are either generally too noisy, or generally unaware of their noise, or unwilling to do anything about it. Clearly this is no reflection on either Donington Park or the other TDO's who successfully operate there.
Jonny
BaT
sumo69 said:
Rather worryingly, Apex's website has now had all the Donington events removed amd their phones are going unanswered.
It would be a real shame if this bought Apex down - Michael is a really nice guy!
David
It only applies to Donington David, plenty of days elsewhere and we will be replacing the days that we were meant to be at Donington.It would be a real shame if this bought Apex down - Michael is a really nice guy!
David
The cars that failed that evening were:-
Mazda MX5 that races in MA5DA. A car I know well and is regularly sound tested. It has been on previous days with us including Donington
Focus RS 270 bhp upgrade
2011 997 Turbo Standard. Done events with us at Oulton Park
2012 997 Turbo standard
Peugeot 306 on throttle bodies
A newly built GT40 replica. Was pretty noisy to be honest. He was black flagged once, tried to quieten it, failed and sent home
A caterham
An MR2 n/a races in 750mc MR2 series
Metro race car, with 1.4 k series engine
Noble M400. Customer done trackdays for 10 years and not had asingle black flag or noise infringement. Failed re test and was sent home
Caterham
Chevron continuation. Newly built car with new quiet silencers, driven by respected Ferrari racer.
Another Caterham, 1.6 Sigma engine 125 bhp, newly built road spec
Another Caterham
5 infringements classed as "multi" This apparently is when more than 1 car pass the monitor and the cumulative noise is in excess of 98db driveby
Finally some 8 un specified noise infringements classed.
I understand that all circuits have requirements with noise. Donington is unfortunate in that it is below the flight path and when drivers get black flagged they bleet on about the airport etc etc, but this is largely irrelevent. The circuit has to adhere to the Local Council rules. End of.
From may onwards we were told that if a car was black flagged for noise it would be given the opportunity for it to be made quieter, if it failed again then it was home time. This was spelled out to our customers in writing and in the briefing.
I am very disappointed that we are unable to do any more days at Donington but proposed revisions to our contract meant it impossible for us to hold days there. Donington is one of my favourite circuits in the Uk and I have done trackdays there for well over 15 years. I am still perplexed as to how so many cars failed the drive by test last Thursday which was the catalyst for us to remove the remaining 8 events we had arranged for the circuit. We always get good numbers at Donington Park and from doing 4 events there last year, we had planned to increase our number of days there year on year.
Any drivers booked for the 30th have been offered and some received a full refund or credit note for this event, whichever they prefer.
Mike
jonnyleroux said:
Just to dispel a couple of myths. 99.4dB is *not* a small percentage louder than 98dB. Some people think that it's circa 2% difference. The dB scale is logarithmic with a factor of 10, which means that each 3dB is approximately twice as loud. In reality, your 99.4dB is in the order of 20-30% louder than a car at 98dB. Or something - i'm no mathematician.
Additionally, and i've mentioned this before on PH so apologies for repeating myself, the airport is subject to the same *average* noise levels as the circuit. One very noisy plane taking off every 5-10 minutes is roughly the same as 30 fairly quiet cars pounding round the circuit constantly.
The harsh truth of this situation is that if we all want Donington Park to still be around in the future then we need to adhere to the noise limits - regardless of how annoying they might be. It is the TDO's responsibility to work closely with the circuit and the clients to ensure minimal disruption to all concerned.
Having personally organised events at Donington Park for over a decade, I have a pretty good idea of what is/isn't going to pass the noise testing there and am in the perfect position to highlight possible issues to clients before they leave home. Ignorance really isn't an option here - if in doubt, ASK.
Jonny
BaT
Is this group of carsAdditionally, and i've mentioned this before on PH so apologies for repeating myself, the airport is subject to the same *average* noise levels as the circuit. One very noisy plane taking off every 5-10 minutes is roughly the same as 30 fairly quiet cars pounding round the circuit constantly.
The harsh truth of this situation is that if we all want Donington Park to still be around in the future then we need to adhere to the noise limits - regardless of how annoying they might be. It is the TDO's responsibility to work closely with the circuit and the clients to ensure minimal disruption to all concerned.
Having personally organised events at Donington Park for over a decade, I have a pretty good idea of what is/isn't going to pass the noise testing there and am in the perfect position to highlight possible issues to clients before they leave home. Ignorance really isn't an option here - if in doubt, ASK.
Jonny
BaT
http://www.motorsportinfocus.co.uk/Apex%20Doningto...
significantly different to this?
http://bookatrack.com/-pX?event&1237
Both evening trackdays with about 48 cars or so
Edited by pit5top on Monday 28th May 23:17
pit5top said:
jonnyleroux said:
Just to dispel a couple of myths. 99.4dB is *not* a small percentage louder than 98dB. Some people think that it's circa 2% difference. The dB scale is logarithmic with a factor of 10, which means that each 3dB is approximately twice as loud. In reality, your 99.4dB is in the order of 20-30% louder than a car at 98dB. Or something - i'm no mathematician.
Additionally, and i've mentioned this before on PH so apologies for repeating myself, the airport is subject to the same *average* noise levels as the circuit. One very noisy plane taking off every 5-10 minutes is roughly the same as 30 fairly quiet cars pounding round the circuit constantly.
The harsh truth of this situation is that if we all want Donington Park to still be around in the future then we need to adhere to the noise limits - regardless of how annoying they might be. It is the TDO's responsibility to work closely with the circuit and the clients to ensure minimal disruption to all concerned.
Having personally organised events at Donington Park for over a decade, I have a pretty good idea of what is/isn't going to pass the noise testing there and am in the perfect position to highlight possible issues to clients before they leave home. Ignorance really isn't an option here - if in doubt, ASK.
Jonny
BaT
Is this group of carsAdditionally, and i've mentioned this before on PH so apologies for repeating myself, the airport is subject to the same *average* noise levels as the circuit. One very noisy plane taking off every 5-10 minutes is roughly the same as 30 fairly quiet cars pounding round the circuit constantly.
The harsh truth of this situation is that if we all want Donington Park to still be around in the future then we need to adhere to the noise limits - regardless of how annoying they might be. It is the TDO's responsibility to work closely with the circuit and the clients to ensure minimal disruption to all concerned.
Having personally organised events at Donington Park for over a decade, I have a pretty good idea of what is/isn't going to pass the noise testing there and am in the perfect position to highlight possible issues to clients before they leave home. Ignorance really isn't an option here - if in doubt, ASK.
Jonny
BaT
http://www.motorsportinfocus.co.uk/Apex%20Doningto...
significantly different to this?
http://bookatrack.com/-pX?event&1237
Both evening trackdays with about 48 cars or so
Edited by pit5top on Monday 28th May 23:17
sumo69 said:
Rather worryingly, Apex's website has now had all the Donington events removed amd their phones are going unanswered.
It would be a real shame if this bought Apex down - Michael is a really nice guy!
David
I was there last thursday night and friday day, Michael very kindly leant my mate in his focus an exhaust baffle so he could carry on. top marks for that.It would be a real shame if this bought Apex down - Michael is a really nice guy!
David
My friends car was there on friday day and did not fail the noise test once.... (in fact my mate has never failed a noise test before, as his rather sensible modifying has lead him down the adding lightness route rather than stupid power route)....... which leads my gargantuan intellect to put 2+2 together to come up with the fact that maybe my friends focus isn't too loud but 2 cars passed the meter together.....
If this is the case, there will be a failure at donington every single trackday, and I don't blame Michael at all for pulling out - especially with the draconian measures Donington have imposed.
As a side note what effect do very hot dry days have on the transmission of sound?
gtdc said:
But, but, but... nothing has changed at Donington.
So you don't think that this is a little harsh????"Because of this we were imposed a zero tolerance policy on noise at all our future trackdays at Donington. We have been asked to pay a £3000 bond and if 1 car exceeded the 98db noise reading the bond would be held by the circuit. Furthermore the circuit owners could shut the circuit for the rest of the day with nil refund. On analysis of the noise data, some specific cars were mentioned as having exceeded the limit and in a number of cases the cause of the breach was classed as “group” This means a number of cars pass the meter and the cumulative noise exceeded 98db. We were not prepared to accept the additional terms and did not want to risk the day being cut short if there was an infringement which in reality, we have no real control of. In effect we had to cancel the event together with all our other trackdays at Donington Park. We have not taken this decision lightly."
yet again you miss the point Melindi.... if donington will black flag a car when 2 go past a noise meter, which will then lose the TDO £3000 with the right to close the circuit, just how do you safegaurd against this? Issue strict instructions not to go 2 abreast under the 2 bridges at donington????
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff