Trackday Toy Choice RS4 v E90 M3 v GTRv

[Msportman]

Currently own and run a very tidy and up together 2 litre 16v Golf running 200+ bhp Quaiffe Diff. I use it everyday but not for long journeys. It's a great cheap package for track though especially braking parts and I use sticky Dunlop or Yoko rubber to compliment the whole package. The engine is a peach revving to 8k and delivering a genuine 202BHP and 162LBS.The engine was built by Race Engine builder Tim Stiles in the 90's. Not quite Slick 50 spec but it is a special car.

I previously owned a MK5 Edition 30 tuned by APR to 340bhp running KW Clubsports, sticky rubber. I ran that at Combe but never finished off the project of installing a diff big brakes etc but could never match my MK2 times.

I had a flavour of APR's MK6 Golf R at Combe this weekend which is the complete article and runs 440-460 with Haldex controller, massive brakes and sticky rubber....lovely everyday car but don't how long the DSG will last!!! Big expense when you factor in purchase cost and conversion costs.

My dilema is whether to plump for an RS4 and possibly supercharge or consider a E90 M3 as both car's into sensible money and Evo seems to rate the M3 on Bedford's autodrome looking at the lap times.
Another car coming into budget is the GTR which is almost built for the job.

Thing with both E90 AND E46 is they will also need big brakes and possibly suspension upgrades.

Would like a bit of everyday comfort and a real track weapon

Open to the floor

Edited by Msportman on Wednesday 17th October 19:18

[tertius]

M3 CSL

[tyrewrecker]

MX5

[sparkyhx]

keep the golf and spend your money on training and trackdays

[Msportman]

sparkyhx said:

keep the golf and spend your money on training and trackdays

I agree in some ways....I lap the Golf in 1.21-1.22 on D01J's at Combe and 1.25 at Donnington.

I've been doing track work for 25 years and am happy with ability.

1.18 was achieved in the MK6 but for anyone who knows lap times peddling 1.21 at Combe 1.22 ain't to be sniffed at. I know I couldn't achieve this a OE E46 M3 unless sorting brakes, suspension and brakes.

I like the C63 but don't like auto's. Another candidate would be a GT3 Porker or 997 C4 but I have no experience in them. This is a retirement purchase for some continental driving and the odd trackday

[shim]

tertius said:

M3 CSL

+1. Not a hard choice.

[Bitofbully]

'None of the above'.

All too big, heavy and complex for really having fun on track - plus the potential to ruin you with running costs.

[src1971]

After driving a friend's E90 M3 on track I sold my B7 RS4 and bought an E92 M3.
The RS4 is good on the road in the rain/snow but the M3 wins in the dry and on the track.

[sparkyhx]

Msportman said:

sparkyhx said:

keep the golf and spend your money on training and trackdays

I agree in some ways....I lap the Golf in 1.21-1.22 on D01J's at Combe and 1.25 at Donnington.

I've been doing track work for 25 years and am happy with ability.

1.18 was achieved in the MK6 but for anyone who knows lap times peddling 1.21 at Combe 1.22 ain't to be sniffed at. I know I couldn't achieve this a OE E46 M3 unless sorting brakes, suspension and brakes.

I like the C63 but don't like auto's. Another candidate would be a GT3 Porker or 997 C4 but I have no experience in them. This is a retirement purchase for some continental driving and the odd trackday

To me you've answered your own question. Don't track a car you can't afford to wrap round the armco. You may end up driving like miss daisy on the safe side cos its 'too important'. I've seen some fairly expensive stuff driven mad, but on the whole I've seen them driven 'safely' presumably for this reason.

Get your retirement car and run the golf as a track only car.

I considered a Monaro/Cobra Replica/Corvette at one stage, but would have to sell both cars to finance. But then faced with the prospect of tracking a car I couldn't afford to loose, I decided to keep both.

[wackojacko]

RS4 to heavy and bloody expensive to fix interms of clutches etc due awd system and the general fast Audi TAX


E90 M3 would be my choice of the cars mentioned however.


If you want the ultimate track car for that money you want to think lighter weight so :
E46 M3 CSL (still lardy)
Noble M12 (best choice )
Supercharged Exige

[robinandcamera]

Things that spring to mind are e46 csl or cs but an e36 m3 would be my choice. Don't forget the fun element.

I don't see an rs4 being fun or something that's going to let you learn track driving skills? E92 is far to big in my mind to be considered a track car, ye it'll be fast like some of the other cars you're looking at.

Exige as mentioned also, some nice supercharged ones about for good money now.

I'm sure a 996 or 997 gt3 would be fun

[robinandcamera]

I just read your follow up. Perhaps a gt3 would be a good choice I reckon.

[Msportman]

robinandcamera said:

I just read your follow up. Perhaps a gt3 would be a good choice I reckon.

Um some great debating points

Weight
Pace on track and a great road car
Cost of Ownership
Cost tracking it

Is there an ultimate package??

For me if the budget allowed I'd go for a nice 997 GT3...certainly I could stretch to a 996 GT3.

Don't think I could live with SMG!! Manual CS yes....shame they never made the CSL in a manual car. I've been told to buy a E46 put some AP'S KW Clubsports togther with sticky rubber and it makes the car into a great package.

Another car that will be on the horizon is a V8 R8....I've driven around Rockingham and the chassis was superb...now coming down to £40k

I suppose being sensible is keep the MK2 and just buy a road car but I want a bit more civilty now I'm getting older.

MK6 did really appeal as it was the conmplete package but in reality it's a total toy which may have reliabilty issues later down the line running that amount of power thru the box.

I suppose the GTR must rate very highly as they are stonkingly quick on track.

If it was just me using the car then I suppose I'd plump for a properly sorted Exige but I do like my German cars!!

Edited by Msportman on Wednesday 17th October 19:10

[tyrewrecker]

GTR stonkingly expensive to track

[Msportman]

src1971 said:

After driving a friend's E90 M3 on track I sold my B7 RS4 and bought an E92 M3.
The RS4 is good on the road in the rain/snow but the M3 wins in the dry and on the track.

Interesting....did you track it?

Did the 4WD sap power.....I know they have DRC and coking heads that seriously reduce power levels and need to be done every now and then costing about a grand.

Never driven an RS4 on track.....I suspect looking at Evo's Bedford times the E92 is pretty quick....I understand they need big brakes though.??

[Msportman]

tyrewrecker said:

GTR stonkingly expensive to track

Is that based on fuel consumption or just the consumables....I know the cost of big brakes and replacement rotors from my old cars.

Do they have any Gremlins??

[src1971]

The DRC works great (when it works). My RS4 had been decoked and remapped ~440PS. The M3 is better balanced so felt smaller/ligher than the RS4 and gave more smiles on the track.

[tertius]

Msportman said:

tyrewrecker said:

GTR stonkingly expensive to track

Is that based on fuel consumption or just the consumables....I know the cost of big brakes and replacement rotors from my old cars.

Do they have any Gremlins??

Fuel for one thing - I've been round the 'ring in a friend's one, max three laps to a tank and £120 to fill up - £40 a lap JUST on fuel! (My Elise will do ten laps and costs less than £50 to fill up.)

IIRC there is only one option for tyres and they were extortionate.

I really think if you are looking for a balance between road comfort vs track performance with a 40k budget means a choice between an M3 CSL or a 996 GT3. If it must be fully manual then GT3 it is.

[marcosgt]

Bitofbully said:

'None of the above'.

All too big, heavy and complex for really having fun on track - plus the potential to ruin you with running costs.

This was my initial thought too.

Could get an old F3 car, stick in a road car engine and REALLY have some fun...

M.

[Msportman]

tertius said:

Fuel for one thing - I've been round the 'ring in a friend's one, max three laps to a tank and £120 to fill up - £40 a lap JUST on fuel! (My Elise will do ten laps and costs less than £50 to fill up.)

IIRC there is only one option for tyres and they were extortionate.

I really think if you are looking for a balance between road comfort vs track performance with a 40k budget means a choice between an M3 CSL or a 996 GT3. If it must be fully manual then GT3 it is.

Thanks................I think the M3 seems a performance bargain if looking a bit dated (E46)...although I still like them with a nice set of OE CSL alloys and some proper suspension. Bit wary of rear sub frame issues though.

Those GTR mpg figures are frightening....how much are tyres?

V10 RS6 with a map must be a nice package but again it's auto box ....I suppose I could live with a DSG box.

I added up the Golf R package and it looks like this:

£25-£28k for the car
£6k for turbo package fitted
£2k front VWR brakes
£800 Haldex controller
£1600 KW's
£1200 Exhaust
£1000 Tyres

It all adds up....been down modding route before....it is some package. Timed at 3.3 0-60 and 11.7 quarter.

Which ever way you look at it weight in high performance car's is a killer....it's a compromise I suppose hence the 911 looks like a formidable and enduring package especially in GT3 form.....shall have to tell the missus to stay in her Audi.