Mazda MX5 or Toyota MR2
Discussion
Hello all. Im very new to this but im looking to purchase either an mx5 or an mr2 with roughly £1000 to spend to use for the odd track day and for the road aswell. I could just do with some advice one which one people prefer and what would be more fun. Also to go round a track would you have to have a helmet and role cage?
You will need a helmet for trackdays but you don't have to have a roll cage. What you do need is some form of roll over protection so a roll hoop behind the seats in the case of the MX5, the MR2 is going to be fine whatever you get but if you've not bought the car yet and decide to get the Mazda just make sure it has something like this fitted.
It would also depend on how tall you are, I'm always amazed by the amount of people who turn up on a trackday with roll over protection that is lower than their head as if it will magically extend if you go upside down.
It would also depend on how tall you are, I'm always amazed by the amount of people who turn up on a trackday with roll over protection that is lower than their head as if it will magically extend if you go upside down.
They drive very differently. The MX5 is very much a car that has much looser limits, from my limited driving in one, and much easier when the rear goes out, BUT, it does feel a bit softer to me. It is more 'hooligan-esque' but whether that suits you is another thing.
The MR2 is much more solid feeling when driven towards the limit, and it demands more accuracy, and smoothness than the MX5. It will snap a fair bit more quickly than the MX5, but if you drive as the car needa to be you will be fine. You can get the power down much sooner in the corner and it will hunker down and grip way past where you think it can, and the turn in is very nice indeed.
For me, I suit the MR2, and found it more rewarding. The Turbo just took it to another level, as the turbo MX5 would.
Drive both, and see what type of driving style you prefer.
The MR2 is much more solid feeling when driven towards the limit, and it demands more accuracy, and smoothness than the MX5. It will snap a fair bit more quickly than the MX5, but if you drive as the car needa to be you will be fine. You can get the power down much sooner in the corner and it will hunker down and grip way past where you think it can, and the turn in is very nice indeed.
For me, I suit the MR2, and found it more rewarding. The Turbo just took it to another level, as the turbo MX5 would.
Drive both, and see what type of driving style you prefer.
I currently own both though the MR2 is up for sale.
A well set up NA is faster around a track than a 5, it rewards smooth driving, late braking and gradual throttle. It's lacking a LSD, but the inside rear wheel won't spin unless it's raining or you're bouncing off kerbs. It's a much better daily driver as well, the seats are comfortable and it's a great GT car (especially the tin tops). There is a vast amount of storage space for a 2 seater (big boot, behind seats, lots of cubby holes, front bonnet - even with the spare wheel). Some decent tyres, polybushing and 4 wheel alignment are a must. The stock exhaust weighs a ton, so changing that will save a lot of (noticable) weight as well as possibly extra power (and definitely extra noise!). If you're going NA, the rev3 onwards has more power, though supposedly the extra weight offsets this from rev1 and 2.
The MX5 is more of a hooligans car, you can throw it at a corner backwards and it will come out the other side. Make sure you get one with a LSD, preferably a 1.8 as it will have a Torsen. You can drive around any set up issues a lot easier with the '5 than the '2. As a daily driver, they're a lot more to live with, you'll probably get a wet arse from the roof leaking, the seats will break your spine on long journeys and the noise is pretty bad at 60mph onwards. With that said, you'll either have the roof down gazing up at stars, or will hit one wet roundabout which will remind you why it's all worth while.
Moving onto cages. Rogue do a very nice one for the MR2 (used in the 750MC MR2championship) but it costs £800. I suspect a lot of places would also do you a custom bolt in/weld in cage for the MR2.
TRLane do various options for the MX5. They have a full cage but I suspect it's not MSA approved, in this case I'd go for the Safety Devices used on the mx5 championship cars, but you can no longer fit a roof. There are also more rare options such as Mazdaspeed, Cusco, Carbing etc. I would avoid any style bars if you're taking it on track. As a general rule a roll over hoop will have at least 4 mounting points, and the rear legs will mount to the bulkhead THROUGH the metal parcel shelf.
Also check what your head is likely to hit, in the case of the MR2 and a full-cage in a MX5 I wouldn't want to be in even a low speed accident without a helmet on.
Totally different animals. Decide if you want to learn how to drive quickly, get into how to set a car up well and have a nice daily driver (MR2) or if you want to hoon around everywhere sideways with the top down (MX5)
ETA: A couple of pics:
ETA 2: The above is all about the mk2 (SW20), Doogz or OlberJ could help you about the mk3.
A well set up NA is faster around a track than a 5, it rewards smooth driving, late braking and gradual throttle. It's lacking a LSD, but the inside rear wheel won't spin unless it's raining or you're bouncing off kerbs. It's a much better daily driver as well, the seats are comfortable and it's a great GT car (especially the tin tops). There is a vast amount of storage space for a 2 seater (big boot, behind seats, lots of cubby holes, front bonnet - even with the spare wheel). Some decent tyres, polybushing and 4 wheel alignment are a must. The stock exhaust weighs a ton, so changing that will save a lot of (noticable) weight as well as possibly extra power (and definitely extra noise!). If you're going NA, the rev3 onwards has more power, though supposedly the extra weight offsets this from rev1 and 2.
The MX5 is more of a hooligans car, you can throw it at a corner backwards and it will come out the other side. Make sure you get one with a LSD, preferably a 1.8 as it will have a Torsen. You can drive around any set up issues a lot easier with the '5 than the '2. As a daily driver, they're a lot more to live with, you'll probably get a wet arse from the roof leaking, the seats will break your spine on long journeys and the noise is pretty bad at 60mph onwards. With that said, you'll either have the roof down gazing up at stars, or will hit one wet roundabout which will remind you why it's all worth while.
Moving onto cages. Rogue do a very nice one for the MR2 (used in the 750MC MR2championship) but it costs £800. I suspect a lot of places would also do you a custom bolt in/weld in cage for the MR2.
TRLane do various options for the MX5. They have a full cage but I suspect it's not MSA approved, in this case I'd go for the Safety Devices used on the mx5 championship cars, but you can no longer fit a roof. There are also more rare options such as Mazdaspeed, Cusco, Carbing etc. I would avoid any style bars if you're taking it on track. As a general rule a roll over hoop will have at least 4 mounting points, and the rear legs will mount to the bulkhead THROUGH the metal parcel shelf.
Also check what your head is likely to hit, in the case of the MR2 and a full-cage in a MX5 I wouldn't want to be in even a low speed accident without a helmet on.
Totally different animals. Decide if you want to learn how to drive quickly, get into how to set a car up well and have a nice daily driver (MR2) or if you want to hoon around everywhere sideways with the top down (MX5)
ETA: A couple of pics:
ETA 2: The above is all about the mk2 (SW20), Doogz or OlberJ could help you about the mk3.
Edited by bicycleshorts on Tuesday 23 October 18:03
Have just had a play in a cheap MX5 track day car we put together, great little car a bit soft even with lowered springs but engine, box is great rev's freely.
Got the weight down to 965 ish
Fast Eddy has it for sale I think but its not road legal , he has the bit to make RL though.
Fast-Eddy.biz ??3 Keelan Close, Norwich, Norfolk County NR6 6QZ
Phone: 01603 401 250
Got the weight down to 965 ish
Fast Eddy has it for sale I think but its not road legal , he has the bit to make RL though.
Fast-Eddy.biz ??3 Keelan Close, Norwich, Norfolk County NR6 6QZ
Phone: 01603 401 250
bicycleshorts said:
Snip
Excellent write up. I've been having a (very nice) dilemma recently about changing the VX and the wifes Mk3 MR2 for an S2000 to get more road use than the VX and a deidcated track MR2 (SW20).Your MR2 looks fantastic and like it would make an ideal base for a dedicated track car, or leave as it is for a daily driver/track toy to suit the OP's needs.
AshVX220 said:
Excellent write up. I've been having a (very nice) dilemma recently about changing the VX and the wifes Mk3 MR2 for an S2000 to get more road use than the VX and a deidcated track MR2 (SW20).
Your MR2 looks fantastic and like it would make an ideal base for a dedicated track car, or leave as it is for a daily driver/track toy to suit the OP's needs.
Thanks Your MR2 looks fantastic and like it would make an ideal base for a dedicated track car, or leave as it is for a daily driver/track toy to suit the OP's needs.
There's a reason that both cars have such strong single-make championships. At it's peak I only had the MR2 set up with sticky tyres, whiteline ARBs, exhaust and alignment. It was one of the most stable cars I've ever driven, very confidence inspiring.
I never got as far as a cage/yellow bilsteins/AW Tracksport springs/R888s like that 750MC championship guys run, but I imagine it would be even better.
Edited by bicycleshorts on Wednesday 24th October 13:16
AshVX220 said:
Excellent write up. I've been having a (very nice) dilemma recently about changing the VX and the wifes Mk3 MR2 for an S2000 to get more road use than the VX and a deidcated track MR2 (SW20).
Your MR2 looks fantastic and like it would make an ideal base for a dedicated track car, or leave as it is for a daily driver/track toy to suit the OP's needs.
Don't do it !!! You are basically saying you are thinking if massively downgrading your fleet.Your MR2 looks fantastic and like it would make an ideal base for a dedicated track car, or leave as it is for a daily driver/track toy to suit the OP's needs.
I have owned a VX220, currently own mk3 MR2 (admittedly with a 2ZZGE). Before these I had mk2 mr2's had a rev2 na, rev 2 turbo, rev 3 na. Friend had an S2000 which I had a good long drive of.
You'd be ditching two lovely handling cars for 2 poor handling cars.
People without experience of other cars often say how good mk2 mr2's are (tey are so cheap and practical thu are often people's 1st 'sports' car after a Saxo etc- they are in isolation ok. Practical, quite quick, reasonable reliable. They really don't handle well and feel very heavy and dead compared to a VX220 or mk3 mr2.
S2000 is spoilt by silly high gearing (I do understand a lower ratio diff is a popular mod to fix this) and has very little feed back from the steering wheel.
Keep both the VX220 and the mk3 :-)
Mx5 or mk2 mr2 for dedicated track use the mx5 will be more fun to slide about as has been said. They don't feel at all fast standard mind. If you want outright speed mr2 turbo - however only a rev3+ that's been looked after. Rev3 na stripped would be my choice of mk2 mr2 as a reliable fast enough track car for all year round use.
Mk3 mr2 you need a baffled sump for track work - I found that out the hard way. I have also found I have no interest in driving anything else on track or changing this car it's lovely with the 190bhp 2ZZGE.
If you like to look at your cars on the drive can't beat a vx220 really special even if they need lots of work to feel finished. I.e ABS ECU upgrades, baffled fuel tanks, wheels changed for lotus Exige spec etc etc
TheHeretic said:
Way to be condescending, Toothrot. 
Maybe I just have a lot of experience of the cars concerned?Owned & tracked :-
Mk 1 MR2
Mk 2 MR2 gti 16 (rev 2)
Mk 2 MR2 GTS (rev 2)
Mk 2 MR2 gti 16 (rev 3) this was the best of the mk2's I had.
Mk 3 MR2 1ZZFE
Mk 3 MR2 2ZZGE
VX220 2.2
Mk1 1.6 MX5* didn't track
Mk1 1.8 MX5
Mk1 1.8 MX5 turbo
Driven an S2000.
It was your 'people without experience..." line. Very condescending. I've driven many cars. Some were friends, some on track, some from folks I met at jap car events, etc. Apparently I have no experience though.
What you needed to say was "in my experience..." We are not all the same.
What you needed to say was "in my experience..." We are not all the same.
Apologies wasn't directed at you - but having owned mk2 MR2 from 1999 > 2009 and so spent time on the forums etc it has to be one of those cars that is often a 1st sports car (it was for me). As a result forums full of youngsters who have never driven anything but FWD hatches. Once they stop spinning or understeering them at every roundabout they decide 'its the best car on the planet, looks like a 355, mental fast in turbo form, but needs a good driver to master, rewarding when it's got right'.
Fact is get in a VX220, Elise, Mk3 and people who do from my experience quickly see the mk2's flaws. There are many ex mk2 drivers on the Lotus forums and Mk3 forums. Doubt there are many ex Lotus or mk3 owners on the mk2 forums.
Fact is get in a VX220, Elise, Mk3 and people who do from my experience quickly see the mk2's flaws. There are many ex mk2 drivers on the Lotus forums and Mk3 forums. Doubt there are many ex Lotus or mk3 owners on the mk2 forums.
My Dilemma is purely based on my nervousness at tracking the VX. If anyone bumps it through my own fault or someone elses, the nature of the car's design and build means it'll be expensive and possibly written off. With an MR2, I won't care quite as much and it would take a very heavy off to write it off. Just a slight bump in the VX will be expensive.
I understand the handling differences between all my options and appreciate that in handling terms its a step backwards. But for my own sanity and my enjoyment it may be a safer/better option.
That said, I'm planning on taking the VX to Brands in December and will get insurance for it (just in case), but I'll still be nervous.
I regularly have this thought/plan/dilemma, then I see her sat in the garage and realise I don't want to change her for anything unless it's something really special.
I understand the handling differences between all my options and appreciate that in handling terms its a step backwards. But for my own sanity and my enjoyment it may be a safer/better option.
That said, I'm planning on taking the VX to Brands in December and will get insurance for it (just in case), but I'll still be nervous.
I regularly have this thought/plan/dilemma, then I see her sat in the garage and realise I don't want to change her for anything unless it's something really special.
AshVX220 said:
My Dilemma is purely based on my nervousness at tracking the VX. If anyone bumps it through my own fault or someone elses, the nature of the car's design and build means it'll be expensive and possibly written off. With an MR2, I won't care quite as much and it would take a very heavy off to write it off. Just a slight bump in the VX will be expensive.
I understand the handling differences between all my options and appreciate that in handling terms its a step backwards. But for my own sanity and my enjoyment it may be a safer/better option.
That said, I'm planning on taking the VX to Brands in December and will get insurance for it (just in case), but I'll still be nervous.
I regularly have this thought/plan/dilemma, then I see her sat in the garage and realise I don't want to change her for anything unless it's something really special.
This is one of the reasons I love MR2s and MX5s, if anything happens it's not the end of the world. I certainly imagine I'd be a lot more nervous in something worth 7 or 8x the price.I understand the handling differences between all my options and appreciate that in handling terms its a step backwards. But for my own sanity and my enjoyment it may be a safer/better option.
That said, I'm planning on taking the VX to Brands in December and will get insurance for it (just in case), but I'll still be nervous.
I regularly have this thought/plan/dilemma, then I see her sat in the garage and realise I don't want to change her for anything unless it's something really special.
If you really want to keep costs down, I'd say the MX5 is the way forward... You can get a set of decent tyres (T1Rs or Rainexpert) for about £120, compare that to the rear tyres on the MK2 MR2 which cost me £180 thanks to the double offset.
TheHeretic said:
It was your 'people without experience..." line. Very condescending. I've driven many cars. Some were friends, some on track, some from folks I met at jap car events, etc. Apparently I have no experience though.
What you needed to say was "in my experience..." We are not all the same.
Pot kettle black. Whether or not it is your intention, the few occasions I see your posts I find them to have a condescending tone quite often!!What you needed to say was "in my experience..." We are not all the same.
As Herman clarifies in his post after your reply, the 'people without experience' comment was made based on his experience of other MR2 owners. It seemed like a reasonable comment to me at the time and added some interesting feedback to the thread.
A Mk2 like bicycleshorts' looks very appealing for the money. If the budget crept to £3k a supercharged MX5 and Mk3 MR2 (and even a RX8) would be on my list to try.
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