Should you always be either accelerating or braking?

[BadBanshee]

I don't know where I got this idea but I always thought that to get the fastest time on the track you have to be always either accelerating or braking. Is this true?

I think the reasoning behind it is that in tight corners where full throttle is just going to see you off the track, then instead of just steering, give the breaks a quick tap because then you will be able to steer tighter and thereby begin your straight exit out of the corner sooner. Exit speed not entrance speed and all that.

But then you hear about how precious forward momentum is, especially on lower powered vehicles, where braking is almost seen as a last resort.

Anyone wanna share their own cornering philosophies?

[weed]

It is/was a common recommendation.
The least time spent on trailing throttle on approach to the corner was supposedly the fastest.
I don't subscribe to it much anymore as I have learned that the type of drive train layout, the degree of chassis/suspension set up, tend to determine how the car is driven.
Some cars like to be driven into the corner with the front wheels loaded for traction during turn-in, some don't.
You get better results reading what your contact patches and adjusting with degrees of throttle and brake application rather than the on/off philosophy.
Imo.

m

[bikerstu]

It depends on the corner for me tbh

I sometimes lift into a corner that i don't want to break round to transfer the weight. Other than that i tend to be on either peddle

[HustleRussell]

It's a very good rule to drive by. You'd be amazed how many drivers take their foot off the throttle while they're waiting for the braking point- the transition should be as quick as humanly possible and I haven't come across a situation yet where lifting of the throttle entirely is quicker than a very slight brake with the left foot.

[Rovinghawk]

Some people like to go into bends on a balanced throttle, ie constant speed. It's how I was always taught to do it.

RH

[otolith]

Maybe if you said "accelerating, braking or turning" - and you might be doing two of the three at once.

[Jerry Can]

Pentti Airikkala was once quoted as saying that 'rally driving was all all about staying on the gas for as long as possible, and getting on the brakes as late as possible, and if there was anything in between he did not know about it.'

John Stevens, driver coach to some F1 drivers would tell you that it's all about utilising the transition between throttle and brake to help balance a car that makes it go fast.

Nigel Mansell was all about the former, and Alain Prost was all about the latter. It's your choice as to which you think is better.

hth.

[src1971]

otolith said:

Maybe if you said "accelerating, braking or turning" - and you might be doing two of the three at once.

^ this

A tyre only has so much grip. Grip facilitates braking, accelerating, turning or a combination. If you are not using all the grip available your laps times will be slower than they could otherwise be.

So if you are travelling along a straight then yes, you should be either WOT or threshold braking. If you are on a bend you need some of the available grip for turning and thus should be neither WOT nor max braking.

[silverthorn2151]

I have heard the expression before and I recall it was Jackie Stewart who said it. Don't suppose it was his invention though, although I like to think it was.

[Clark3y]

I think the main thing here is not coasting up to the braking point. The point at which you apply and release the brake are both very important. Don't dilly dally about it, be decisive. Max accel to max brake without delay.

[VTECMatt]

What if you are on the limiter but need to break in two seconds, slower to change up so you would lift surely?

[Bertrum]

VTECMatt said:

What if you are on the limiter but need to break in two seconds, slower to change up so you would lift surely?

You keep it pinned on the limiter of course.

With regards to the initial question, depends if you mean fully on off. If you do then no.

If you mean either braking or accelerating to some degree then yes.
Eg trail braking.

If you were racing and went through/into corners on a constant throttle and braked in a straightlind as taught for track days then you would be last.

But track days are about having fun, not racing or lap times.

Edited by Bertrum on Friday 23 November 19:34

[spikey78]

Edit, as you were! Should have read previous answers properly
Carry on..

Edited by spikey78 on Friday 23 November 20:04

[jonnyleroux]

VTECMatt said:

What if you are on the limiter but need to break in two seconds, slower to change up so you would lift surely?

A decent gearchange should take no more than a couple of tenths of a second, so there's no excuse for ever sitting on the limiter assuming

a) you're not in top gear, and

b) you aren't going to braking within a few tenths of a second

in racing terms, 2 seconds is an eternity to be sitting on the limiter, assuming you have more gears to play with.

[BadBanshee]

Fantastically polar opposite comments, those last two were. Exactly the kind of disagreement I was hoping for

First seems to admis the possibility of keeping a constant but not maximal speed through the corner, and the second comment sees every second not spent pushing the engine and chassis to it's limit, a second wasted.

The first is more holistic, and the second is more focused on improving all the finer details.

Edit: referring to bertrum and jonnyleroux

[jonnyleroux]

BadBanshee said:

Fantastically polar opposite comments, those last two were.

Edit: referring to bertrum and jonnyleroux

For the record, I agree 100% with bertrum that trackdays aren't the place for this kind of pushing of the boundaries. however, your original post mentioned "fastest time on track" which I read to include a race environment.

i had been doing trackdays for over a decade before I raced in anger and it was a very steep learning curve for me moving from track day mode to race mode. holding the limiter for 2 seconds instead of changing up (every lap) would be the difference between a win and a top-20 finish in Caterham R300 racing for example.

Jonny
BaT

[shim]

jonnyleroux said:

For the record, I agree 100% with bertrum that trackdays aren't the place for this kind of pushing of the boundaries. however, your original post mentioned "fastest time on track" which I read to include a race environment.

i had been doing trackdays for over a decade before I raced in anger and it was a very steep learning curve for me moving from track day mode to race mode. holding the limiter for 2 seconds instead of changing up (every lap) would be the difference between a win and a top-20 finish in Caterham R300 racing for example.

Jonny
BaT

So why don't you ban the Caterhams that seem to use your trackdays as test days for the race series?

And if you found trackday to racing a steep learning curve, maybe you weren't doing trackdays properly?

[gruffalo]

shim said:

So why don't you ban the Caterhams that seem to use your trackdays as test days for the race series?

And if you found trackday to racing a steep learning curve, maybe you weren't doing trackdays properly?

I have to say I very strongly disagree with your last statement, if you are driving a track day thinking where you can slot up the inside into a corner or where you can out brake the car in from you are in the wrong place, also if you are taking a defensive line into a corner you are in the wrong place and you should be in a race series.

A trackday is all about not having to look out for a car coming up the inside into a hairpin, it is a chance to try out your and your cars performance in a safe environment and hone your skills, completely different to racing.

[Bertrum]

If you think you can go from track days to racing and be competeive you are kidding yourself.

If I drove on a track day like I do in a race, not just the proximity to cars, overtaking bump drafting etc. But actually how hard we push. I would last 2 laps before being sent home.

With regards to the limiter question, on reflection in my race car I would stay on the limiter for 1 sec not 2. The gearing is pants! In an R300 I would change up!

[jonnyleroux]

gruffalo said:

I have to say I very strongly disagree with your last statement

Ignore him, he's trolling. He's got a chip on his shoulder so f**kin big he doesn't need a HANS device.