Karting and weight... Just how much difference...
Discussion
Hi all. Sorry if this is the wrong section but the people who post in this part of the forum actually seem to have a clue about vehicle dynamics etc whereas GG attracts as many cretins as it does people who know what they are talking about...
I was just wondering how much difference weight makes in hire-kart racing. At Buckmore yesterday on a practice session in their new RT8 karts me and my Dad were having a good laugh with each other and more or less matching eachother's pace. My dad weighs a good 20kgs less than me and was wondering how much of a difference this is going to make in the dry, a hire-kart (low power) with lap times in the 52 second region??? In the slow corners I could carry the same speed as him but just could not match his cornering speeds on the fast flat-out sections and seemed to lose a lot of time on the straighter bits climbing up the hill.
FWIW his fastest time was 2 tenths quicker than me but it was his first time at Buckmore so I think he could shave another half a second off this with a lot of practice but my times were far more consistant.
I was just wondering how much difference weight makes in hire-kart racing. At Buckmore yesterday on a practice session in their new RT8 karts me and my Dad were having a good laugh with each other and more or less matching eachother's pace. My dad weighs a good 20kgs less than me and was wondering how much of a difference this is going to make in the dry, a hire-kart (low power) with lap times in the 52 second region??? In the slow corners I could carry the same speed as him but just could not match his cornering speeds on the fast flat-out sections and seemed to lose a lot of time on the straighter bits climbing up the hill.
FWIW his fastest time was 2 tenths quicker than me but it was his first time at Buckmore so I think he could shave another half a second off this with a lot of practice but my times were far more consistant.
I think a lot, went on a stag do with about 15 of us, the top 3 were the smallest guys and the bottom 3 were the 3 biggest (including me). Probably somewhere in the region of 4-6 stone in weight between us, not taking skill into account but too much of a coincidences for weight not to be a factor
I did the 24hr at Daytona MK this year and one of the seasoned pros was telling me that every stone was worth 0.3 sec a lap there.
Which made me feel quite good as I was 14st12 my fastest lap was a 1.06 and the fastest of the 9 stone crew were 1.4 so for technical ability I was bang on it
One of the guys on my team was a pro karter and was talking about the best way to arrange things to take advantage of light fuel loads. made me laugh with him worrying over 5kg of fuel when im carrying 35kg of belly more than him.
I just try to make sure that nobody bigger than me beats me.
Which made me feel quite good as I was 14st12 my fastest lap was a 1.06 and the fastest of the 9 stone crew were 1.4 so for technical ability I was bang on it
One of the guys on my team was a pro karter and was talking about the best way to arrange things to take advantage of light fuel loads. made me laugh with him worrying over 5kg of fuel when im carrying 35kg of belly more than him.
I just try to make sure that nobody bigger than me beats me.
I usually find myself in the top 1/3 of drivers on any given day with regard to fastest lap (lap times are always consistant though) but find it incredibly frustrating leaving a corner faster just to have them pull away from me again on the straight! (funny when the say weight is an advantage because you have more weight to push the tyres into the track 
)
0.3 second per stone is a big difference! I'm probably carrying 3 stone more than most out there...
)0.3 second per stone is a big difference! I'm probably carrying 3 stone more than most out there...
Surely this is a bit of a moot point going off most karting circuits, at least the ones I have been to. Every kart is different, some I'm riding round like Schumacher(in my head at least) and others I'm getting taken apart by goons who don't know what an apex is. Of course there is a weight/speed difference but how can you measure this if it is masked by a much larger kart difference?
cb31 said:
Surely this is a bit of a moot point going off most karting circuits, at least the ones I have been to. Every kart is different, some I'm riding round like Schumacher(in my head at least) and others I'm getting taken apart by goons who don't know what an apex is. Of course there is a weight/speed difference but how can you measure this if it is masked by a much larger kart difference?
It's an all other things being equal matter but I know what you mean...As for Buckmore all the karts are <3 months old so fairly similar at the moment (tyre pressures are a different matter though, had one once that would turn right rather nicely but would turn left without scrubbing wide and could only put it down to this. Luckily its a clockwise circuit
)A bit of research. The difference between some elite karters on a high 30s lap between the 162kgs min weight and 172kgs min weight was 0.7 seconds. Obviously with the less power you have the more of a difference this makes so if 15kgs is making 0.7s difference over 38 seconds in powerful karts what on earth is it doing in a hire kart with 1/3rd the power over a 52 second lap!
cb31 said:
Surely this is a bit of a moot point going off most karting circuits, at least the ones I have been to. Every kart is different, some I'm riding round like Schumacher(in my head at least) and others I'm getting taken apart by goons who don't know what an apex is. Of course there is a weight/speed difference but how can you measure this if it is masked by a much larger kart difference?
This is very true, the last karting I did was with 25 others, I won every race in every round, one round by a massive margin the kart was so much quicker than everyone else's. For the final rather than putting me at the front of the grid they put me at the back and specifically swapped the kart as they said it was about time I let someone else have a chance, got up to 4th anyway but that kart was rubbish, foot flat to the floor the whole track it simply wouldn't go fast enough to have to lift. Average weight 12.5 stone, lucky the skinny guys were rubbish.jimbobsimmonds said:
A bit of research. The difference between some elite karters on a high 30s lap between the 162kgs min weight and 172kgs min weight was 0.7 seconds.
Does that difference account for talent though? If Alonso was the same weight as me the difference would be a lot more than that, extreme example but you know what I mean. In my limited experience on pure straight line speed I haven't noticed a difference between people bigger or smaller than me, it comes down to who comes off the previous corner better.Some more research. An F1 car at Melbourne uses 2.5kg of fuel per lap, each 2.5kg costs .1s per lap. In your example 10kg would be .4s penalty but this is over a 85s ish lap, so a high 30s lap would be a .2s penalty. I know different cars etc, but .7s penalty sounds a lot for a 10kg weight difference.
cb31 said:
jimbobsimmonds said:
A bit of research. The difference between some elite karters on a high 30s lap between the 162kgs min weight and 172kgs min weight was 0.7 seconds.
Does that difference account for talent though? If Alonso was the same weight as me the difference would be a lot more than that, extreme example but you know what I mean. In my limited experience on pure straight line speed I haven't noticed a difference between people bigger or smaller than me, it comes down to who comes off the previous corner better.Some more research. An F1 car at Melbourne uses 2.5kg of fuel per lap, each 2.5kg costs .1s per lap. In your example 10kg would be .4s penalty but this is over a 85s ish lap, so a high 30s lap would be a .2s penalty. I know different cars etc, but .7s penalty sounds a lot for a 10kg weight difference.
F1 cars weigh 600kgs and have 800bhp. Hire karts with driver come in at say 180 kgs and have maybe 12bhp. Weight is going to be a huge factor. FWIW the reason I ask the question is at Buckmore it is full throttle for almost the length of the track up the hill. I was exiting the last corner far faster than my dad (one of my favourite corners) and by the top of the hill he would have a noticeable speed advantage. Maybe 3 or 4 kart lengths...
Ive just done a 3 hour Kart race with 15 blokes , at the last minute one of the guys did not turn up so my very light wife (9stone) stepped in for a bit of fun and to fill up the grid ........needless to say she won by a country mile and spent the rest of the night in the pub getting pissed telling all the guys they have just had there arses whipped by a girl 
Some of the guys there did not look happy
Tux
Some of the guys there did not look happy
Tux
Would love someone to do a proper test with telemetry to see what the real differences are.
Could use an experienced karter so you have consistent lap times and let them do 15 laps, 5 to get used to the new weight and 10 to be recorded and averaged.
Could do stock weight then +10kg, +20kg, +30kg.
If telemetry is good enough can also compare corner speeds to see if there is any merit in the theory people seem to have that having weight is better for corners and also how it compares to the straight line difference.
Could use an experienced karter so you have consistent lap times and let them do 15 laps, 5 to get used to the new weight and 10 to be recorded and averaged.
Could do stock weight then +10kg, +20kg, +30kg.
If telemetry is good enough can also compare corner speeds to see if there is any merit in the theory people seem to have that having weight is better for corners and also how it compares to the straight line difference.
I went to the raceway in Docklands and managed to win, by well over a lap in a 1/2 hour race.
To put it into context the second place guy is an ex. Junior Kart Racer/Formula Ford driver and the guy in third is highly competitive. I gave away 4 odd stone to each (I was about 16 1/2 stone) but managed a fastest lap time of 43.6 sec's where as theirs were 45.0 and 44.8 respectively.
Weight isn't always everything (my kart appeared to have nearly new tyres which may have helped....)
To put it into context the second place guy is an ex. Junior Kart Racer/Formula Ford driver and the guy in third is highly competitive. I gave away 4 odd stone to each (I was about 16 1/2 stone) but managed a fastest lap time of 43.6 sec's where as theirs were 45.0 and 44.8 respectively.
Weight isn't always everything (my kart appeared to have nearly new tyres which may have helped....)
Certainly weight difference of 20kg can be felt in karting but talking of hiring karts there are many other aspects: the karts are hardly in the same condition, some engines are more brilliant than others, the maximum grip offered varies and the talent and experience make a lot of difference. I raced karts in my childhood but I didn't drive one for years. Anyway now with some firends we occasionally hire track and karts for a brief race, just to have some fun. I esasily set the best time in qualifying but a guy weighing 55kg generally wins the race...
kiethton said:
To put it into context the second place guy is an ex. Junior Kart Racer/Formula Ford driver and the guy in third is highly competitive.
Not always a good indication of ability. I have friends who have raced and won FFord, karts and GTs and neither can trouble me in a kart despite me being a couple of stone heavier. Another mate of mine who is about 19 stone managed to beat the FFord guy.
kiethton said:
I went to the raceway in Docklands and managed to win, by well over a lap in a 1/2 hour race.
To put it into context the second place guy is an ex. Junior Kart Racer/Formula Ford driver and the guy in third is highly competitive. I gave away 4 odd stone to each (I was about 16 1/2 stone) but managed a fastest lap time of 43.6 sec's where as theirs were 45.0 and 44.8 respectively.
Alright mr Vettel, you don't have to brag about it. To put it into context the second place guy is an ex. Junior Kart Racer/Formula Ford driver and the guy in third is highly competitive. I gave away 4 odd stone to each (I was about 16 1/2 stone) but managed a fastest lap time of 43.6 sec's where as theirs were 45.0 and 44.8 respectively.
Terzo204 said:
For public Karting I think the following is important:
1. Driver ability;
2. How knackered the Kart is;
3. Driver weight.
1 and 2 vary a lot more than anything else!
Not sure I agree with that. Assuming as a base minimum all the drivers know what an apex is, then I would suggest:1. Driver ability;
2. How knackered the Kart is;
3. Driver weight.
1 and 2 vary a lot more than anything else!
1. How knackered the kart is.
2. Driver weight.
3. Driver ability.
The last few times I've karted with my mates I've come away with the fastest lap of us all. It wasn't due to ability and it certainly wasn't due to my 16+ stone weight. So it must have been something else...
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