Cornering question
Discussion
I've done a few trackdays and done a few hill climbs and sprints. I wasn't that quick but I'd like to go a lot faster. I have had some of the free 5 minute tuitions that are given out on track days.
One comment that I remember him saying was that I was making too much of the corners - basically seemed to be saying dont get so far across on entry, then right into the apex before coming out again?!?
Also, I know this is very difficult to answer without seeing the corner or the speeds involved but I think I have a tendency to drop the gear too low for corners as a. I want the acceleration available to pull me out of the corner but also b. it feels more under control and less likely to spin out if entry is too fast.
Poor example but in a mk3 mx5 on the nurburgring I'd probably be in 3rd for a lot of corners where my mates would generally be in 4th. Similar 10 minute times but I'm thinking know that I'm probably loosing a lot of time slowing into lower gears and then trying to aggressively power out of them, rather than a more relaxed cruise through them! Maybe this what he meant by making too much of the corner?!?
Any advice?
Cheers
One comment that I remember him saying was that I was making too much of the corners - basically seemed to be saying dont get so far across on entry, then right into the apex before coming out again?!?
Also, I know this is very difficult to answer without seeing the corner or the speeds involved but I think I have a tendency to drop the gear too low for corners as a. I want the acceleration available to pull me out of the corner but also b. it feels more under control and less likely to spin out if entry is too fast.
Poor example but in a mk3 mx5 on the nurburgring I'd probably be in 3rd for a lot of corners where my mates would generally be in 4th. Similar 10 minute times but I'm thinking know that I'm probably loosing a lot of time slowing into lower gears and then trying to aggressively power out of them, rather than a more relaxed cruise through them! Maybe this what he meant by making too much of the corner?!?
Any advice?
Cheers
The quickest way through any given corner is generally the smoothest technique with the least drama.
If he said you are making too much out of the corner, that would suggest to me that you are making hard work of it, like you say going down too many gears, probably using way too much braking, possibly far too much steering input and then loads of harsh power on the way out.
It is difficult to pinpoint exact driving faults without seeing what you do.
I would suggest you attempt to smooth things out, try to carry corner speed rather than overslowing the car, turning into the corner and then using a lower gear than needed to punch the car out of the corner. Carrying corner speed will mean you won`t need an aggressive punch as you will already be carrying speed.
Like I say difficult to diagnose specifically without more info.
If you find yourself on a Goldtrack day, I`d be more than happy to have a look at what you are upto.
Scotty
If he said you are making too much out of the corner, that would suggest to me that you are making hard work of it, like you say going down too many gears, probably using way too much braking, possibly far too much steering input and then loads of harsh power on the way out.
It is difficult to pinpoint exact driving faults without seeing what you do.
I would suggest you attempt to smooth things out, try to carry corner speed rather than overslowing the car, turning into the corner and then using a lower gear than needed to punch the car out of the corner. Carrying corner speed will mean you won`t need an aggressive punch as you will already be carrying speed.
Like I say difficult to diagnose specifically without more info.
If you find yourself on a Goldtrack day, I`d be more than happy to have a look at what you are upto.
Scotty
Edited by scotty_dog on Tuesday 30th July 19:04
As Scotty Dog says, hard to say what you are doing with out being sat next to you.
What I would suggest is that you book a day on a track you know and book a proper race instructor for at least half the day but preferably all day, some on like Mike Cooper or another such instructor, I would expect you will be amazed at the difference in your driving at the end of the day.
I did this with Mike and at the end of the day I was opening a 20 yard gap out of every corner on cars I had been struggling to keep up with at the start and while pulling away and lapping in a time I would never have managed at the beginning but it was so smooth it felt slow and smooth.
What I would suggest is that you book a day on a track you know and book a proper race instructor for at least half the day but preferably all day, some on like Mike Cooper or another such instructor, I would expect you will be amazed at the difference in your driving at the end of the day.
I did this with Mike and at the end of the day I was opening a 20 yard gap out of every corner on cars I had been struggling to keep up with at the start and while pulling away and lapping in a time I would never have managed at the beginning but it was so smooth it felt slow and smooth.
When I started out on trackdays, I fell into the trap it seems you are in. What SOUNDS and FEELS fast, must be the fastest way...
Having the car screeching round the corner with smoke pouring off the tyres and the engine bouncing off the limiter may feel like you are on the limit and really flying.
A smoother style and higher gear feels slow, but then you look at the times / video afterwards and realise you were going significantly quicker.
Tuition & seat time is the key. Incar video is great to analyse what you are doing, expecially if you are willing to listen to constructive feedback.
Having the car screeching round the corner with smoke pouring off the tyres and the engine bouncing off the limiter may feel like you are on the limit and really flying.
A smoother style and higher gear feels slow, but then you look at the times / video afterwards and realise you were going significantly quicker.
Tuition & seat time is the key. Incar video is great to analyse what you are doing, expecially if you are willing to listen to constructive feedback.
Many moons ago (got to many grey hairs now) when I started my on & off club racing career I have one very distinctive memory that sticks with me until today.
I had a decent car, not the best but good, I thought myself to be super talented, last on brakes etc... a few races in I made a right ash of a start (stalled), from mid grid to last by some 300 yds, been a young know it all dolly's went out pram and thought sod this Im never going to catch anyone and sulked, I sat back relaxed drove smoothly (at what I thought was about 8/10ths), I caught the back of the field and finished higher than my qualifying position in a ten lap race without even trying (or so I thought), rather than trying to wring the cars neck I was smooth, in the correct place on the circuit, not out braking myself, exiting corners much quicker, my driving style changed from that day on, qualifying regularly saw me further up the grid and finishing positions improved along with car reliability.
I had a decent car, not the best but good, I thought myself to be super talented, last on brakes etc... a few races in I made a right ash of a start (stalled), from mid grid to last by some 300 yds, been a young know it all dolly's went out pram and thought sod this Im never going to catch anyone and sulked, I sat back relaxed drove smoothly (at what I thought was about 8/10ths), I caught the back of the field and finished higher than my qualifying position in a ten lap race without even trying (or so I thought), rather than trying to wring the cars neck I was smooth, in the correct place on the circuit, not out braking myself, exiting corners much quicker, my driving style changed from that day on, qualifying regularly saw me further up the grid and finishing positions improved along with car reliability.
It's just taken me ages to figure out what you're on about! I'd best edit that post...
I have a Eunos 1.6 road/track ready and have found similar experience to the OP. I think mine is lack of power coming out of the corners being a frustration. An example of this would be Castle Combe,hanging down the relative straight before the righthander on to the pit straight, cant remember names, i found going through in 4th left me wanting on the way out. Dropping into 3rd slowed me down going in but "felt" like i was exiting quicker.Given more power i think the 4th would be the correct gear.
To be honest i dont do trackdays to set lap records, its all about the fun. Bedford full circuit was awesome round the twisties but every thing went past me on the back straight. Most fun was through the hairpins when dropping into 2nd to lock up the diff, sliding round with a bit of oppo is never gonna win races but boy did i enjoy that.
Yet to take the MX to Cadwell but from what ive seen and heard this is where handling will overcome power,Book me in!
To be honest i dont do trackdays to set lap records, its all about the fun. Bedford full circuit was awesome round the twisties but every thing went past me on the back straight. Most fun was through the hairpins when dropping into 2nd to lock up the diff, sliding round with a bit of oppo is never gonna win races but boy did i enjoy that.
Yet to take the MX to Cadwell but from what ive seen and heard this is where handling will overcome power,Book me in!
HaylingJag said:
To be honest i dont do trackdays to set lap records, its all about the fun. Bedford full circuit was awesome round the twisties but every thing went past me on the back straight. Most fun was through the hairpins when dropping into 2nd to lock up the diff, sliding round with a bit of oppo is never gonna win races but boy did i enjoy that.
Yet to take the MX to Cadwell but from what ive seen and heard this is where handling will overcome power,Book me in!
Get yourself to Cadwell, you don't need loads of power to have fun there. It's tight, twisty and testing - I think you'll love it. The scenery is a lot closer than Bedford though.Yet to take the MX to Cadwell but from what ive seen and heard this is where handling will overcome power,Book me in!
shorts! said:
HaylingJag said:
To be honest i dont do trackdays to set lap records, its all about the fun. Bedford full circuit was awesome round the twisties but every thing went past me on the back straight. Most fun was through the hairpins when dropping into 2nd to lock up the diff, sliding round with a bit of oppo is never gonna win races but boy did i enjoy that.
Yet to take the MX to Cadwell but from what ive seen and heard this is where handling will overcome power,Book me in!
Get yourself to Cadwell, you don't need loads of power to have fun there. It's tight, twisty and testing - I think you'll love it. The scenery is a lot closer than Bedford though.Yet to take the MX to Cadwell but from what ive seen and heard this is where handling will overcome power,Book me in!
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