Help me pick a cheapish track car

[T0MMY]

I've currently got a MK1 MX5 (daily driver + occasional track car) but just got a new job that gives me a company car. This means I can justify making the MX5 more track focussed but now I'm wondering whether I should splash out and get something else instead.

I'm very much into lightweight cars and not too fussed about power these days. Likewise I much prefer fun, neutral handling to having loads of grip but a boring balance that understeers or can only be provoked into oversteer by smashing the accelerator to the ground.

My options then as I see them are:-

Spend about £1000 on the MX5 which will get me proper track tyres, coilovers, thicker antiroll bars and the relevant cooling mods (it's already lightly turbo'd to about 170 bhp which is plenty quick enough to be fun but it generates a LOT of heat). This would mean the car has cost me about £3400 in total and if I ever crashed it I could take the turbo kit and all the surviving mods and stick them straight onto another £1200 MX5 anyway.

Spend £4-£6000 on a built kit car, probably something like an MK Indy or an old Westfield. I don't know much about kit cars but this seems to be the lower end of what you can expect to pay for a 7 style car which is what I'd want. Any thoughts on the fun factor from someone that has experience of MX5s too? A Caterham is probably the first thing I'd buy if I won the lottery but I'm not sure how good the cheaper varieties are.

Spend £7-8000 on an S1 Elise, which is about as cheap as they seem to get. The Elise seems like the perfect car for me in many ways but to me that's a lot of money to risk on track. I realise it won't depreciate but if I stuck it into the wall I could lose a lot and after chucking my previously mint trackbike down the road I'm a little sensitive to these issues! I know an Elise will be a lot stiffer, grippier and more focussed than my MX5 (albeit probably slower) but how does it compare in terms of fun? I like cars that are twitching around in corners trying to get away from you but ultimately controllable on the limit.

Any other options I could consider at this price range and any opinions on the cars I've mentioned? The sensible thing would obviously be to stick with the MX5 just in terms of cost but I always get itchy feet with cars. That said, I can think of literally no other cars anywhere near that price range that I'd rather own which is why I've kept it for 2 years.

[Steve H]

Westfield would be the best bet for your priorities/budget in my view.

[Si1295]

Stick with the mx5 or e36 bmw?

Buying a cheap elise or westfield could inflict major pain on your wallet before you get any enjoyment

[T0MMY]

From a browse of the classifieds, it seems you get more for your money with an MK Indy than a Westfield but maybe they just aren't as good? I really don't know much about them, handling wise. I guess I shouldn't assume that any 7 style car will handle well just because they're built to be fun! Presumably plenty are real dogs if they're not well designed.

Si1295 said:

Stick with the mx5 or e36 bmw?

Oh god, I should have realised someone would mention a BMW E36 I've had a couple and they are about as far from the sort of light, lively chassis I like that you can get in a RWD car. Nice engines, good grip but heavy with totally lifeless, slow steering and a safe understeery handling balance, only upset by spinning up the back wheels. I do like them as an all round car but they really aren't sporty to drive compared to an MX5. Apologies if you own one, just my opinion. I had an E30 once too and that was probably more fun despite only being a basic 4 pot but the good ones (325i, 318is, 320is and of course M3) are all way overpriced or impossible to find or both.

[crimbo]

S2000

[AshVX220]

VX220, cheaper in every sense than an Elise. And quicker than a standard Elise.

ps, I am a tad biased though.

[edperera]

E36 328i coupe.
Cheap as chips to buy, maintain and relatively speaking - because of the abundance of good new and used parts modify.
Brilliant rwd chassis straight out of the box.
There are quite a few of these for sale at the moment.

Here's an example,but you can find loads more if you look about

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bmw-e36-328i-sport-track...

This spec, uprated engine mods, suspension, brakes, stripped out would easily be competitive (i don't mean faster, but i don't mean embarrased either) against many standard weight, standard spec M3 E36's be they 3.0 or 3.2 (standard cars)

Whatever you choose, just have fun in it.

[Masher964]

There are some great Porsche 944's out there presently. Good balance, decent power and upgrade able. Might even appreciate in value one day too!

[AdamR172]

I have an MX-5 and a Westfield. The Westy is obviously faster, but the MX-5 is more fun and passengers don't appreciate getting soaked

For a long while now I've been thinking an MX-5 with about 150-160bhp, half decent suspension, track tyres and brakes to match is the perfect track day car.

I would go with the 'make the MX-5 reliable' route and spend the rest on trackdays

[Lasitha]

Me and my mate are selling our track prepared E30 325i (genuine) Sport.

It's up in the classifieds for about your budget: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/...

[braddo]

AshVX220 said:

VX220, cheaper in every sense than an Elise. And quicker than a standard Elise.

ps, I am a tad biased though.

What about clam replacement if the worst happens? Aren't they significanty more expensive?

I've read the ABS is a pain on track too. And you can't get track biased tyres for the VX's standard front wheels so you have to swap to 16" S2 Elise wheels.

[Lawbags]

Easy enough to sort the heat issues out on the MX5 surely?

[AshVX220]

braddo said:

What about clam replacement if the worst happens? Aren't they significanty more expensive?

I've read the ABS is a pain on track too. And you can't get track biased tyres for the VX's standard front wheels so you have to swap to 16" S2 Elise wheels.

Yep, clams are a nightmare if the worst happens, hence why I always have mine insured. I toyed with the idea of selling mine and getting a dedicated track-hack (like a stripped MR2). But then I just looked at my car and decided I couldn't sell it! :cloudnine: There is a company that's been started by a long time VX owner (a mate of mine) that now sells clams at a more palatable price, though still a tad costly compared to a metal wing that you can just bang any dents out of I guess.

The ABS does cut in far too easily though, it doesn't bother me, mines more road car than track hack, I'm also aware I'm no driving god, so when on track I don't push it too hard, for me it's more having fun and being able to drive nice circuits than being as fast as possible.

And yes, the standard VX wheels (fronts) are a size which you can only get one type of tyre for....and they're expensive too. I'd still rate the VX over a standard Elise, there are VX's around that have different wheels on already and have had the ABS replaced with a better system.

All valid points you raise and as said, I am very biased!

[braddo]

T0MMY said:

Spend £7-8000 on an S1 Elise.....

Bear in mind this won't get you a track focussed one, so being in standard roadgoing form it will won't be much different in terms of pace and sharpness compared to your MX5.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed driving a roadgoing Elise on track and the bodyroll and road tyres (Advans) make it a really nice, progressive car, so you can have it hovering around the cornering limits without feeling like it will spin in an instant.

This was my Sport135 at Goodwood on the original Koni suspension:




If you want to hang the tail out though, that will obviously be more tricky compared to a front-engined car.

If you want to stick to something light and fun, it sounds like the best option is to upgrade your MX5. Personally I find the idea of a track prepped, supercharged Mk1 MX5 compelling.

[T0MMY]

Thanks for the replies chaps. I considered a 944 a few years ago but ended up buying a well modified S13 200SX that seemed to offer a similar experience for less cash (back before the Fast and the Furious crowd got wind of them and started destroying them all that is). I'm not sure it would feel as lively to drive as an MX5 though. S2000 I think would be a nicer road car with more refinement and power but I know people that have gone from MX5s to them and found them a bit less rewarding assuming you don't base that purely on speed.

I think really it's got to be a kit car or stick with what I've got. The Elise/VX220 idea is starting to seem like too much extra cash compared to the extra enjoyment gained.

The other complication is that I tend to do car trackdays over winter or when rain is forecast when I'm not doing bike ones so a 7 style kit car might not be ideal.

Basically I think sticking with what I've got makes the most sense and I'm tempted to not even modify the suspension just yet because I quite like the way it handles on its 20 year old springs This is it round Cadwell before it was turboed...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoJmvr0v7nU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAebXRxLP70


I'm sure it would be quicker if it was stiffer and I had decent tyres but I do love the way you have to drive it...tip it into the corner and the back immediately starts to let go then having to make constant adjustments Yet to take it on track with the extra power due to reliability concerns but it should be a bit of a handful out of the corners, especially in the wet.

So a bigger radiator, an intercooler and spend the rest on fuel? I guess ultimately I could look at turning it into an MEV exocet. I imagine that would be quite a serious beast with a turbocharged donor...

[Steve H]

Don't be put off using a Westie or similar in the winter, they can be great to drive in the wet and you can layer up for the cold - really not a big deal.

[T0MMY]

Steve H said:

Don't be put off using a Westie or similar in the winter, they can be great to drive in the wet and you can layer up for the cold - really not a big deal.

Not so much the cold as the pouring rain that worries me, and I drive to track too It's perfectly doable but the other thing I was thinking was that I'm not sure I'd want to leave a kitcar outside all year round, even with a cover. My garage is too full of motorbikes and tools to fit a car in there.

[iguana]

T0MMY said:

Thanks for
So a bigger radiator, an intercooler and spend the rest on fuel?

Plus a coolant re-route & an oil cooler.

By the time you add it all up to do properly, cage, suspension LSD, sort the cooling etc it could be a darn sight easier to buy one already done tho.

Ultimatly a 170bhp Mx5 wont really be that quick, but if that's not what its about for you then crack on, they are lots of fun.

[T0MMY]

iguana said:

Plus a coolant re-route & an oil cooler.

By the time you add it all up to do properly, cage, suspension LSD, sort the cooling etc it could be a darn sight easier to buy one already done tho.

Ultimatly a 170bhp Mx5 wont really be that quick, but if that's not what its about for you then crack on, they are lots of fun.

Is the coolant reroute pretty much essential? Looks like a bit of a ballache. Already have the LSD and I could do the suspension fairly cheap..I'm not looking to make the car a Ferrari beater.

I reckon it will be pretty quick with 170bhp too to be honest, in terms of lap times. It's easy (cheap) enough to get more now the turbo's there but I think it suits the character of the car as it is. Even when it was 128bhp and on rubbish road tyres it did pretty well and it's far quicker now. With a set of semi slicks I think round tracks like Cadwell there won't be much going quicker but I'll have to wait and see. You're never going to have the fastest car (well, one guy will) so I don't see the point in worrying about it.

[Steve H]

T0MMY said:

Not so much the cold as the pouring rain that worries me, and I drive to track too It's perfectly doable but the other thing I was thinking was that I'm not sure I'd want to leave a kitcar outside all year round, even with a cover. My garage is too full of motorbikes and tools to fit a car in there.

Storage is probably a bigger issue, a bikers wet suit does the trick when it's wet.