Bad time to start?
Discussion
Wassup!
After months of debating whether to track or not to track, I have finally decided (and am now financially able) to take my car to the track and see what it can really do!
Only issue is, we're close to December.
Assuming there are track days in the middle of winter, are these cold (and potentially wet and icey) days a bad time for a novice to start? Should I wait for spring time?
Ideally no answers saying "whichever you want" - I'd like to know what you think is the best idea for a novice like myself to do.
After months of debating whether to track or not to track, I have finally decided (and am now financially able) to take my car to the track and see what it can really do!
Only issue is, we're close to December.
Assuming there are track days in the middle of winter, are these cold (and potentially wet and icey) days a bad time for a novice to start? Should I wait for spring time?
Ideally no answers saying "whichever you want" - I'd like to know what you think is the best idea for a novice like myself to do.
Did a track day two days ago at Oulton and was an all dry day in November.
You can have some beautifull days in December. Nice and bright. Just take few easy first laps and enjoy the rest. Javelin do a lot of days in winter and others too i think. They are cheaper at that time of the year too. My two best days this year were when cold as no rain on them . When it gets warmer tends to rain
Eduardo.
You can have some beautifull days in December. Nice and bright. Just take few easy first laps and enjoy the rest. Javelin do a lot of days in winter and others too i think. They are cheaper at that time of the year too. My two best days this year were when cold as no rain on them . When it gets warmer tends to rain
Eduardo.
Edited by GT4EDS on Tuesday 19th November 16:00
I think ther are 3 aspects to this question:-
1) Enjoyment. Will your fun be curtailed by the wet weather? Some people hate it, some love it (i'm in the latter camp)
2) Learning. You will, without doubt, learn more in the wet about car control, handling, smooth driving etc. There's a solid argument to say everyones first track day should be in the wet - it would make everyone much more appreciative of the vehicles dynamics and limits
3) Safety. I strongly suspect that statistically you are no more likely to cause more damage in the wet than in the dry. Let me quantify that - whilst the likelihood of you spinning and/or making contact increases in the wet, the amount (or value) of the damage will invariably be less than the equivalent shunt in the dry. Put it another way, if you did 1000 wet track days and 1000 dry track days, my gut feeling based on our own experience is that you will have spent the same in terms of crash repairs. The former would have been more shunts at lower cost, the latter more likely to be fewer shunts at higher cost.
Either way, get some tuition - more important that weather, circuit, car, experience, tyres, brakes etc etc combined
Hope that all makes sense.
Jonny
BaT
1) Enjoyment. Will your fun be curtailed by the wet weather? Some people hate it, some love it (i'm in the latter camp)
2) Learning. You will, without doubt, learn more in the wet about car control, handling, smooth driving etc. There's a solid argument to say everyones first track day should be in the wet - it would make everyone much more appreciative of the vehicles dynamics and limits
3) Safety. I strongly suspect that statistically you are no more likely to cause more damage in the wet than in the dry. Let me quantify that - whilst the likelihood of you spinning and/or making contact increases in the wet, the amount (or value) of the damage will invariably be less than the equivalent shunt in the dry. Put it another way, if you did 1000 wet track days and 1000 dry track days, my gut feeling based on our own experience is that you will have spent the same in terms of crash repairs. The former would have been more shunts at lower cost, the latter more likely to be fewer shunts at higher cost.
Either way, get some tuition - more important that weather, circuit, car, experience, tyres, brakes etc etc combined
Hope that all makes sense.
Jonny
BaT
jonnyleroux said:
I think ther are 3 aspects to this question:-
1) Enjoyment. Will your fun be curtailed by the wet weather? Some people hate it, some love it (i'm in the latter camp)
2) Learning. You will, without doubt, learn more in the wet about car control, handling, smooth driving etc. There's a solid argument to say everyones first track day should be in the wet - it would make everyone much more appreciative of the vehicles dynamics and limits
3) Safety. I strongly suspect that statistically you are no more likely to cause more damage in the wet than in the dry. Let me quantify that - whilst the likelihood of you spinning and/or making contact increases in the wet, the amount (or value) of the damage will invariably be less than the equivalent shunt in the dry. Put it another way, if you did 1000 wet track days and 1000 dry track days, my gut feeling based on our own experience is that you will have spent the same in terms of crash repairs. The former would have been more shunts at lower cost, the latter more likely to be fewer shunts at higher cost.
Either way, get some tuition - more important that weather, circuit, car, experience, tyres, brakes etc etc combined
Hope that all makes sense.
Jonny
BaT
+11) Enjoyment. Will your fun be curtailed by the wet weather? Some people hate it, some love it (i'm in the latter camp)
2) Learning. You will, without doubt, learn more in the wet about car control, handling, smooth driving etc. There's a solid argument to say everyones first track day should be in the wet - it would make everyone much more appreciative of the vehicles dynamics and limits
3) Safety. I strongly suspect that statistically you are no more likely to cause more damage in the wet than in the dry. Let me quantify that - whilst the likelihood of you spinning and/or making contact increases in the wet, the amount (or value) of the damage will invariably be less than the equivalent shunt in the dry. Put it another way, if you did 1000 wet track days and 1000 dry track days, my gut feeling based on our own experience is that you will have spent the same in terms of crash repairs. The former would have been more shunts at lower cost, the latter more likely to be fewer shunts at higher cost.
Either way, get some tuition - more important that weather, circuit, car, experience, tyres, brakes etc etc combined
Hope that all makes sense.
Jonny
BaT
You'll use less fuel, brakes and tyres in the wet too.
james_gt3rs said:
Cheaper track days, quieter, and less wear on teh car. As long as your car has a roof and a heater, winter trackdays are great!
Yep. Seconded.In fact to some extent i prefer winter ones if they're on a nice crisp day.
We did a december day at donington waaaaay back in 2004 and nearly got blown over stepping out of the car at the cafe. Really wondered what we were doing there, but inside the car with the heater on it's no bother.
As above.
I was at Brands this Sat.
One of the best days I've had weather wise.
Also, I agree with the above except a roof! Happy to head out with the roof down, heating on full blast- you get fairly hot on track, as does your car.
Looking forward to some wet days - the rear end in my Mx5 seems to do a lot more :-)
I was at Brands this Sat.
One of the best days I've had weather wise.
Also, I agree with the above except a roof! Happy to head out with the roof down, heating on full blast- you get fairly hot on track, as does your car.
Looking forward to some wet days - the rear end in my Mx5 seems to do a lot more :-)
I was one of ten TVRs at Snetterton on Saturday. From memory, three of our number, and about ten drivers in total, were track day virgins. It was cold but dry and all got the bug and will be back for more. They drove within their abilities and had no incidents, not even a slight journey onto the grass, whereas I and another experienced driver both took to the grass, without damage.
You will be fine - go for a track without too much to hit. Somewhere like Bedford Autodrome. Avoid the twisty race tracks with lots of magnetic Armco.
You will be fine - go for a track without too much to hit. Somewhere like Bedford Autodrome. Avoid the twisty race tracks with lots of magnetic Armco.
Thanks for all the encouraging advice guys!
Looks like I'll be booking when I get paid!
Are there any particularly good tracks for novices? I live 30 minutes from Brands Hatch but I've heard from some people I know that Bedford Autodrome is a good place to start - as is North Weild.
Can anyone recommend anywhere that isn't too far from Essex?
Looks like I'll be booking when I get paid!
Are there any particularly good tracks for novices? I live 30 minutes from Brands Hatch but I've heard from some people I know that Bedford Autodrome is a good place to start - as is North Weild.
Can anyone recommend anywhere that isn't too far from Essex?
I did my first ever track day at Snetterton, in the wet, in freezing cold conditions. Was immense fun!
Snetterton is good for a beginner, quite flat and decent run offs in most areas. Brands is a little trickier with huge compressions and decompressions but is probably my favourite track. To be honest you can't go wrong with either.
Snetterton is good for a beginner, quite flat and decent run offs in most areas. Brands is a little trickier with huge compressions and decompressions but is probably my favourite track. To be honest you can't go wrong with either.
Bedford as i already said, is where I would recommend. Almost nothing to hit (one run of armco alongside a straight), and an old airfield that has been properly re-surfaced by the guys who own Brands. £99, Saturday 21st december is i think the next one. Motor Sport Vision. Well organised, a good event. How noisy is your car/what car is it?
Snetterton i would agree is a good one, lovely track, but as already mentioned there is a bit more armco. Last weekend a BMW did manage to find some of the armco and do a fair bit of damage, but if he was the car i think he was, he was an experienced driver who was pushing on pretty well - he overtook my one ton 300 bhp TVR.....
Who are you insured with?
Snetterton i would agree is a good one, lovely track, but as already mentioned there is a bit more armco. Last weekend a BMW did manage to find some of the armco and do a fair bit of damage, but if he was the car i think he was, he was an experienced driver who was pushing on pretty well - he overtook my one ton 300 bhp TVR.....
Who are you insured with?
QBee said:
Bedford as i already said, is where I would recommend. Almost nothing to hit...
... except each other. There are no centralised stats unfortunately, but i'd hazard a guess based on incidents I'm aware of that there is more car-to-car contact at Bedford than any other track day venue in the UK. The fact that it's such a safe venue (it is, can't argue that) encourages drivers to push harder than they would otherwise which invariably means more spins. If you are happy with your own limitations and are confident in your ability to avoid other peoples errors then go for it.However, Brands Hatch would get my vote. Much more interesting and challenging circuit but oddly it will be easier to learn (much shorter) if significantly harder to master.
Jonny
BaT
I did my first ever track day at the start of October. Cadwell was soaked up till lunch time, then had a couple of lengthy red-flags because confidence was higher than grip was on a drying track.
I thoroughly enjoyed the day despite the red-flag downtime, I'm a bit apprehensive about booking now that we're further into Winter - especially as my car needs a few hours prep before a track session (can't just make a decision a saturday morning to tip up to an underbooked session) but I may consider something for Jan/Feb if we get a nice weekend forecast, just book on the friday and see what's going on.
I thoroughly enjoyed the day despite the red-flag downtime, I'm a bit apprehensive about booking now that we're further into Winter - especially as my car needs a few hours prep before a track session (can't just make a decision a saturday morning to tip up to an underbooked session) but I may consider something for Jan/Feb if we get a nice weekend forecast, just book on the friday and see what's going on.
As has been said, less wear on everything and days are cheaper = overall better value. Also as its your first time you should (hopefully) be driving a bit below you and your cars ultimate capabilities if it was dry and so shouldn't feel too held back.
If you have a road car with road tyres some of the most fun is in the wet as all the open seaters and Caterhams aren't blasting past you every 60 seconds
If you have a road car with road tyres some of the most fun is in the wet as all the open seaters and Caterhams aren't blasting past you every 60 seconds
Wet days provide a different experience to dry days, certainly fun as long as you're happy sliding around and it equalises the difference between higher and lower powered cars a little.
As you're in Essex it's worth trying a day at brands, its a good track but doesn't have much run off area - I've seen a few cars roll in the gravel trap at paddock hill bend on a wet track day there. So give it a go but take it easy and consider getting instruction - its totally different to driving on the road.
As you're in Essex it's worth trying a day at brands, its a good track but doesn't have much run off area - I've seen a few cars roll in the gravel trap at paddock hill bend on a wet track day there. So give it a go but take it easy and consider getting instruction - its totally different to driving on the road.
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