Getting into track days
Discussion
Hi,
First post so here's a bit of background:
I'm 20, always been fairly interested in cars/driving and just getting to a point where I have (a little bit of) money to spare.
I currently drive a bog standard, 2007, 3 door, 1.4 Polo which is owned by my parents. I'm at uni but will be doing a paid placement year starting around June 2015. My current plan is during that year to buy an MX5 for a couple of reasons:
1. Cheap to buy.
2. Cheap to insure.
3. Sound like a lot of fun.
4. I've always wanted to build a kit car and will probably use it as a donor after I graduate uni.
5. Want my own car as my parents aren't keen on me having the polo at uni all year round.
Anyway back to the present. I want to get into track days, and have been looking around the forums here for a bit of advice but I have a couple of questions.
1. Is my current car suitable for track days (subject to parents agreement obviously)?
I know it isn't going to turn any heads or be particularly quick (probably not even that fun) but it's all I've got access to for at least a year. Should I even be considering track days, or should I maybe just do 1 or 2 experience days and then wait until I get a new car? If you do think my car would be fine is there anything I should consider doing to get it ready, and any considerations maintenance wise? (I know that track days can be fairly taxing for road cars)
2. Should I take an introductory course, and can anyone recommend me any good ones? I'm happy to travel but would prefer it to be somewhere around the South of England, perhaps up to the Midlands.
3. I've heard airfield days are a good laid back way to get started. Any thoughts on that or suggestions of good ones/alternatives if you don't agree that they're good?
Finally if you have any more tips they would be more than welcome. Thanks in advance!
Matt
EDIT: Just remembered I also wanted to ask what the deal is with track day insurance. Do you have to have it? Do you buy it per day or per year or what? Can you get it as part of your standard road insurance or is that not advisable?
First post so here's a bit of background:
I'm 20, always been fairly interested in cars/driving and just getting to a point where I have (a little bit of) money to spare.
I currently drive a bog standard, 2007, 3 door, 1.4 Polo which is owned by my parents. I'm at uni but will be doing a paid placement year starting around June 2015. My current plan is during that year to buy an MX5 for a couple of reasons:
1. Cheap to buy.
2. Cheap to insure.
3. Sound like a lot of fun.
4. I've always wanted to build a kit car and will probably use it as a donor after I graduate uni.
5. Want my own car as my parents aren't keen on me having the polo at uni all year round.
Anyway back to the present. I want to get into track days, and have been looking around the forums here for a bit of advice but I have a couple of questions.
1. Is my current car suitable for track days (subject to parents agreement obviously)?
I know it isn't going to turn any heads or be particularly quick (probably not even that fun) but it's all I've got access to for at least a year. Should I even be considering track days, or should I maybe just do 1 or 2 experience days and then wait until I get a new car? If you do think my car would be fine is there anything I should consider doing to get it ready, and any considerations maintenance wise? (I know that track days can be fairly taxing for road cars)
2. Should I take an introductory course, and can anyone recommend me any good ones? I'm happy to travel but would prefer it to be somewhere around the South of England, perhaps up to the Midlands.
3. I've heard airfield days are a good laid back way to get started. Any thoughts on that or suggestions of good ones/alternatives if you don't agree that they're good?
Finally if you have any more tips they would be more than welcome. Thanks in advance!
Matt
EDIT: Just remembered I also wanted to ask what the deal is with track day insurance. Do you have to have it? Do you buy it per day or per year or what? Can you get it as part of your standard road insurance or is that not advisable?
TrackMegane said:
little bit of money spare and track days dont go hand in hand.
A trackday for me inc tyres, brakes, fuel etc can get on near 400-500 a trackday.
Youd be best renting a caterham from BAT or a tiger from open track
Haha fair play! But 4-500 is better than 1-2k for a car, 6-900 for insurance and then 4-500 on top of that again for the track day.A trackday for me inc tyres, brakes, fuel etc can get on near 400-500 a trackday.
Youd be best renting a caterham from BAT or a tiger from open track
I will look into the renting option, thanks for the suggestion
You certainly could turn up to a track day with the polo first of all. But if it is a standard shopping/pottering car and is your only transport I would be careful. The reason for this is a track day will highlight any issues and potentially leave you with nothing.
I know a lot of people drive their only cars on track days but personally I wouldn't/don't.
Best place to start in my opinion is to blag a ride for the day in someone else's track car. Passenger access for the day is about £10-20 plus same again for a helmet. Much better value than an experience day and far longer in the car.
Where are you based?
EDIT. ps. I have a modified MX5. A track day for me costs about £100-150 assuming I split costs with my brother/mates for the days fun. That is all in for fuel/track costs/parts etc.
MX5 is the standard answer to the 'what track car?' question as they are cheap, fun and reliable. They are not quick though (as standard).
I know a lot of people drive their only cars on track days but personally I wouldn't/don't.
Best place to start in my opinion is to blag a ride for the day in someone else's track car. Passenger access for the day is about £10-20 plus same again for a helmet. Much better value than an experience day and far longer in the car.
Where are you based?
EDIT. ps. I have a modified MX5. A track day for me costs about £100-150 assuming I split costs with my brother/mates for the days fun. That is all in for fuel/track costs/parts etc.
MX5 is the standard answer to the 'what track car?' question as they are cheap, fun and reliable. They are not quick though (as standard).
Edited by drchris on Tuesday 5th August 19:40
21 here, got in to track days myself last year although I was in a bit of a better position as I bought the car with my dad so we both could do trackdays and therefore it wasn't my one and only car.
So we had the car, we had sorted the brakes, had enough meat on the tyres, the last step was the track day which was by far the easiest part. Being in the south we booked a novice day at brands hatch with MSV which I believe came to £99 + a little bit for an additional driver.
Novice days are broken down in to short sessions throughout the day which we found great because for me it was my second time in the car (couldn't get insurance pre-21) and my Dad can't stay on track too long as he finds it tiring. During these days instructor training is free you simply have to inquire about it and it was very helpful for me as I really was thrown in to the deep end when i came to the car.
After 1 of these novice days last year and one earlier this year we're now about to do our 3rd track day this year and still loving it, got one next week at brands which will be roughly £144 for the track day and £60-80 in petrol, if you regularly drive the car on road as well I can imagine it would be far more expensive but then this extra cost is just due to consumables which are all part of car ownership anyway!
So we had the car, we had sorted the brakes, had enough meat on the tyres, the last step was the track day which was by far the easiest part. Being in the south we booked a novice day at brands hatch with MSV which I believe came to £99 + a little bit for an additional driver.
Novice days are broken down in to short sessions throughout the day which we found great because for me it was my second time in the car (couldn't get insurance pre-21) and my Dad can't stay on track too long as he finds it tiring. During these days instructor training is free you simply have to inquire about it and it was very helpful for me as I really was thrown in to the deep end when i came to the car.
After 1 of these novice days last year and one earlier this year we're now about to do our 3rd track day this year and still loving it, got one next week at brands which will be roughly £144 for the track day and £60-80 in petrol, if you regularly drive the car on road as well I can imagine it would be far more expensive but then this extra cost is just due to consumables which are all part of car ownership anyway!
To answer point 1 I'd say no, the current car isn't suitable.
For a couple of reasons - firstly the risk of engine damage is pretty significant. That engine really is not designed for even mild track driving and this could provide significant oil starvation to do long term damage.
Second point would be its way too slow. I know its fashionalble on PH to encourage people onto track with any old bucket of s
te but when a car will be struggling to burst 60mph by the end of the straight, while others will be doing twice or more this speed then its just plain dangerous for all involved.
For a couple of reasons - firstly the risk of engine damage is pretty significant. That engine really is not designed for even mild track driving and this could provide significant oil starvation to do long term damage.
Second point would be its way too slow. I know its fashionalble on PH to encourage people onto track with any old bucket of s
te but when a car will be struggling to burst 60mph by the end of the straight, while others will be doing twice or more this speed then its just plain dangerous for all involved. If you can afford £500 for an occasional day of fun then go for it!
Absolutely no reason why you can't use your only car for track days either. I use my only car very regularly for UK days and also for 'ring trips, and while it would of course be nice to trailer it there from a comfortable barge it just isn't necessary. At all!
I would highly recommend you look for a "road car only" track day as your first one, and there's no reason why you couldn't take your Polo there (with your parents' permission of course). However, they are generally at the beginning / end of the year when the weather is a gamble. That may not be what you're looking for, but a wet day teaches you so much more about car control and closing speeds to the faster cars will be much lower.
It will cost you anything from £90 to £240 for a UK open pit track day, depending on the time of year, then a tank of fuel (at least) to drive round. Tyres you won't have to worry about as you will be on all-season's and they'll last just fine for several events. Insurance is up to you, but everyone signs a disclaimer in the morning so you aren't liable to any damage or breaking any laws if you do without. I don't insure my Clio.
Another option - and probably a better one - is to go for an evening session, as the reduced expense will be good for your wallet and the reduced time thrashing round will be good for your car. Perhaps you could go in with the big guns and ask your parents to use the car for a whole day, and then when they say no offer an evening session as a less fear-inducing option.
Good luck getting in to it! Don't let people put you off with tales of great cost and the need for a whole support fleet to accompany you - it just doesn't have to be like that! I drive my Clio from Essex to Oulton Park regularly, by myself, with zero problems.
Absolutely no reason why you can't use your only car for track days either. I use my only car very regularly for UK days and also for 'ring trips, and while it would of course be nice to trailer it there from a comfortable barge it just isn't necessary. At all!
I would highly recommend you look for a "road car only" track day as your first one, and there's no reason why you couldn't take your Polo there (with your parents' permission of course). However, they are generally at the beginning / end of the year when the weather is a gamble. That may not be what you're looking for, but a wet day teaches you so much more about car control and closing speeds to the faster cars will be much lower.
It will cost you anything from £90 to £240 for a UK open pit track day, depending on the time of year, then a tank of fuel (at least) to drive round. Tyres you won't have to worry about as you will be on all-season's and they'll last just fine for several events. Insurance is up to you, but everyone signs a disclaimer in the morning so you aren't liable to any damage or breaking any laws if you do without. I don't insure my Clio.
Another option - and probably a better one - is to go for an evening session, as the reduced expense will be good for your wallet and the reduced time thrashing round will be good for your car. Perhaps you could go in with the big guns and ask your parents to use the car for a whole day, and then when they say no offer an evening session as a less fear-inducing option.
Good luck getting in to it! Don't let people put you off with tales of great cost and the need for a whole support fleet to accompany you - it just doesn't have to be like that! I drive my Clio from Essex to Oulton Park regularly, by myself, with zero problems.
It's a tricky one to answer given your finances and car situation.
I understand your interest and excitement at the prospect of track days. They are huge fun.
But:
1. They are not cheap.
2. They can break your car
3. You could write off your car.
I really wouldn't be going out there in a 1.4 Polo. Its nothing to do with street cred or image - there's loads of lads in 20 year old MX5s and tatty Fiestas, having fun. But, in the Polo you will spend the entire day/evening with your eyes on your rear view mirror, circulating around the inside of the track and trying to keep out of the way of people like me. The rule on track days is allow faster cars to pass safely on the outside on the straights. Everything on track will be faster.
Costs - the average full day fee is £120-180 at the less posh tracks, well over £200 at places like Silverstone or Donington. Then you add in getting there and back, fuel - a good tank and a half I would guess, I only get half my road mpg on track. And you need decent tyres, brakes and so on. And repairing any damage. For that you will spend probably, out of a whole day, a total of 2-3 hours on track, the rest of the time being spent recovering, chatting, fixing the car, etc etc.
In your situation I would get together with a couple of mates and talk to Johnny at Book a Track. He can hire you a Caterham R300, which is a far faster and better car than you will afford in the near future. He brings it to the track, has a couple of guys on hand to keep it running all day and to teach you the lines. He supplies fuel and insurance ( though like all track day insurance, the excess is serious), and all you have to do is turn up and drive. You take it in turns, around 15-20 minutes a time, and believe me you need the recovery time in between, which is why most amateur motor races last no longer than 20 minutes. Great day for about £300 each between three of you. No other costs. No having to buy, tax, insure, maintain and fuel your own car.
I did an evening at Cadwell Park last night in my TVR. £69 fee, £30 of fuel getting to and fro, £60 of fuel on track. My £400 cheapo track tyres will do about 8 track days (so that's another £50), I get 5 track days between oil changes (that's 9.5 litres of Shell Racing, plus filter, so £30 per track day). I have my own helmet, but insurance costs around £20 a track day. So we are up to £259 for a two hour evening session at my nearest track. See what I mean? I should just hire a car, but I love driving the TVR.....
And it was massive fun. I found a spare pair and took Coppice at over 100 mph for the first time, and improved my lines around several other corners, as well as giving my young friends, who came to passenger for the first time, some real fun.
I understand your interest and excitement at the prospect of track days. They are huge fun.
But:
1. They are not cheap.
2. They can break your car
3. You could write off your car.
I really wouldn't be going out there in a 1.4 Polo. Its nothing to do with street cred or image - there's loads of lads in 20 year old MX5s and tatty Fiestas, having fun. But, in the Polo you will spend the entire day/evening with your eyes on your rear view mirror, circulating around the inside of the track and trying to keep out of the way of people like me. The rule on track days is allow faster cars to pass safely on the outside on the straights. Everything on track will be faster.
Costs - the average full day fee is £120-180 at the less posh tracks, well over £200 at places like Silverstone or Donington. Then you add in getting there and back, fuel - a good tank and a half I would guess, I only get half my road mpg on track. And you need decent tyres, brakes and so on. And repairing any damage. For that you will spend probably, out of a whole day, a total of 2-3 hours on track, the rest of the time being spent recovering, chatting, fixing the car, etc etc.
In your situation I would get together with a couple of mates and talk to Johnny at Book a Track. He can hire you a Caterham R300, which is a far faster and better car than you will afford in the near future. He brings it to the track, has a couple of guys on hand to keep it running all day and to teach you the lines. He supplies fuel and insurance ( though like all track day insurance, the excess is serious), and all you have to do is turn up and drive. You take it in turns, around 15-20 minutes a time, and believe me you need the recovery time in between, which is why most amateur motor races last no longer than 20 minutes. Great day for about £300 each between three of you. No other costs. No having to buy, tax, insure, maintain and fuel your own car.
I did an evening at Cadwell Park last night in my TVR. £69 fee, £30 of fuel getting to and fro, £60 of fuel on track. My £400 cheapo track tyres will do about 8 track days (so that's another £50), I get 5 track days between oil changes (that's 9.5 litres of Shell Racing, plus filter, so £30 per track day). I have my own helmet, but insurance costs around £20 a track day. So we are up to £259 for a two hour evening session at my nearest track. See what I mean? I should just hire a car, but I love driving the TVR.....
And it was massive fun. I found a spare pair and took Coppice at over 100 mph for the first time, and improved my lines around several other corners, as well as giving my young friends, who came to passenger for the first time, some real fun.
You could do an MSV novice day in the Polo (nothing else even bears consideration), but frankly I would recommend doing that most un-student of things and banking the money until you have got something a bit more worthwhile. An MX5 is an excellent gateway car to track days as a pastime, but until you get that far in your plans : stockpile cash. You will need it.
Renting is an option, but it should be noted that one should never rent anything until one could afford not just the fee, but also the substantial excess should the car be definitively binned. Unless you have a few thousand quid sitting in contingency funds, that part of the plan is also best back-burnered.
Sorry to be a killjoy, but when starting out in track days you need to be sure that car, driver and bank account are all up to the task at hand and its worst case possible outcome. Once you are at that point : rock and roll.
Renting is an option, but it should be noted that one should never rent anything until one could afford not just the fee, but also the substantial excess should the car be definitively binned. Unless you have a few thousand quid sitting in contingency funds, that part of the plan is also best back-burnered.
Sorry to be a killjoy, but when starting out in track days you need to be sure that car, driver and bank account are all up to the task at hand and its worst case possible outcome. Once you are at that point : rock and roll.
mattwilkins said:
EDIT: Just remembered I also wanted to ask what the deal is with track day insurance. Do you have to have it? Do you buy it per day or per year or what? Can you get it as part of your standard road insurance or is that not advisable?
Do you have to have it? No: the terms of the track day have you signing away third party liability against you so your car, your problem. Even if someone else is to blame. (It isn't always that simple and there have been a few cases that resulted in long threads on here, but that is how it generally should work).Track day insurance is thus constrained to first party (your car). Also, the excess on track day claims tends to be high (typically 10% of the value of the vehicle), so most people will be doing quite a lot of damage before considering making a claim. Many view it as "write off" cover and anything minor would come out of their pocket regardless.
You can buy it per event, but that tends to be expensive and compared to a specialist road policy including track cover: most people will break even on only their second or third track day. Whether you can get a road policy including track day cover for your age, experience and car or choice is not something that I can comment on. It is noteworthy that most people who have track day insurance tend to be running more expensive cars though and for you the economics may be different. In my experience, most people running comparatively unexotic cars don't bother with it.
QBee said:
I really wouldn't be going out there in a 1.4 Polo. Its nothing to do with street cred or image - there's loads of lads in 20 year old MX5s and tatty Fiestas, having fun. But, in the Polo you will spend the entire day/evening with your eyes on your rear view mirror
QBee said:
In your situation I would get together with a couple of mates and talk to Johnny at Book a Track. He can hire you a Caterham R300, which is a far faster and better car than you will afford in the near future.
This.I asked a very similar question on PH 6 years ago when I was 21!
I had a 1.4 Corsa, which I opted to take on my first track day (an under-subscribed BookaTrack day at Cadwell in November!). It was exactly as QBee describes: spent most of the day watching my mirrors; but it did at least give a taste!
Since then, I've been going halves on BookaTrack Caterham Hire dates. The cost between 2 people is around 500-600 pounds per day. I'm sure there are cheaper ways of getting on track, but I put value in not having to worry about mechanicals, fuel, transport etc etc.
I'm now onto my 30th track day (29 of which have been BaT Caterham hires!)
ETA: One of my YouTube videos from BaT Caterham: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_WJEF9H4Z8
+1 on the advice about rental - it isn't just the cost of the hire that you need to think about, you need to make sure you can afford the excess in the event of a crash.
If you do rent, try and get something FWD as the learning curve will be shallower.
My "final thought" would be to do an evening session and see how you get on.
If you do rent, try and get something FWD as the learning curve will be shallower.
My "final thought" would be to do an evening session and see how you get on.
CamMoreRon said:
+1 on the advice about rental - it isn't just the cost of the hire that you need to think about, you need to make sure you can afford the excess in the event of a crash.
Doesn't that depend on the value of your own car? Plus associated recovery and transport costs etc etcUltimately, crashing a rental car has got to be easier & cheaper than crashing your own car, surely?
Jonny
BaT
A big decision on renting a track car or running your own is how many trackdays will you do a year? I firmly believe you can run an MX5 or Clio Sport for less than anything you could rent from BaT, but then an MX5 / Clio Sport is not an R300, so very different capabilities of the different vehicles.
I have gone down the route of running my own car a '94 Rev 3 MR2 Turbo, and costs do add up, but I am also loving the fact that I am shaping the car to exactly how I want my trackcar to be and I am willing to pay for that.
I have gone down the route of running my own car a '94 Rev 3 MR2 Turbo, and costs do add up, but I am also loving the fact that I am shaping the car to exactly how I want my trackcar to be and I am willing to pay for that.
Crowds said:
cheapest way to get into the track day type experience is something like an action day at castle combe.
A 15min slot for little money and will give you a good idea if you enjoy it or not. your car would be fine for this and I cant see you knocking out a set of tyres in 15mins.
I have to disagree with you there, the action days at Combe are often carnage, people go to watch all the crashes, and I do not think they are a good evrionment for a first time track novice.A 15min slot for little money and will give you a good idea if you enjoy it or not. your car would be fine for this and I cant see you knocking out a set of tyres in 15mins.
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