First Track Car - Advice Please

[chutley]

First post, be gentle with me...

Raced Motocros for 15 years, still have a couple of Road bikes although moved on from Fireblades to Adventure Bikes and travel with the Mrs. Still have a passion for going fast, and have decided to dip a toe into the 4 wheel world - safer than two wheels at my age (50).

I am looking to buy a cheap first track car and would appreciate some advice as to the tack to take...

I prefer rear wheel drive cars (current road car is BMW Z4M).
I am not sure whether to get a road legal car to drive to the circuits, or a track/race prepared car and trailer it there?
Would it be better to get a more rally focussed car to use on the rough airfield circuits?
I dont want to spend too much for my first car - I am a novice in a car and the chances of damaging it is probably quite high.
Mrs is also keen to have a go as a passenger first, with a view to also driving later.
I should add that I have had many years of racing Motocross, and will not be going back to racing

What to do? Appreciate any advice from those who have done this journey

[TypeRTom]

chutley said:

First post, be gentle with me...

Raced Motocros for 15 years, still have a couple of Road bikes although moved on from Fireblades to Adventure Bikes and travel with the Mrs. Still have a passion for going fast, and have decided to dip a toe into the 4 wheel world - safer than two wheels at my age (50).

I am looking to buy a cheap first track car and would appreciate some advice as to the tack to take...

I prefer rear wheel drive cars (current road car is BMW Z4M).
I am not sure whether to get a road legal car to drive to the circuits, or a track/race prepared car and trailer it there?
Would it be better to get a more rally focussed car to use on the rough airfield circuits?
I dont want to spend too much for my first car - I am a novice in a car and the chances of damaging it is probably quite high.
Mrs is also keen to have a go as a passenger first, with a view to also driving later.
I should add that I have had many years of racing Motocross, and will not be going back to racing

What to do? Appreciate any advice from those who have done this journey

What is your budget for buying and running the car? How many track days per year do you plan to do?

Costs of fuel and consumables can go up quite quickly with heavier and more powerful cars, so I would stick to something light ish and sub 200bhp. Popular cheap track cars with low running costs are MX-5s, MR2s, Clios. E30/36 BMWs are also quite popular but I'd expect would cost more to run than the other three I mentioned.

Personally I'm not a fan of rough airfield circuits. Bedford is great for a first trackday as it's flat and there is very little to hit. I would recommend getting some tuition early on as it will make you faster and smoother. Rockingham is also a good circuit to do a trackday on as you can also have a go on their wet grip area for free.

[Dakkon]

From a cost of ownership and reliability etc point of view if you want FWD get a Clio 182 Sport, if it's RWD then get an MX5 (check for rust).

The heavier the car, the more it will cost you in consumables as a general rule of thumb.

You will get a lot of other answers but it depends how much spannering you can do yourself.

I will say that i you only plan to do a couple of trackdays a year then it is actually probably cheaper to just hire, owning your own track car only starts to make sense if you plan to actually do a fair few trackdays a year.

[HustleRussell]

Buy a Caterham. They're free to own and nearly free to maintain and track prep.

[radical78]

if your rich buy a 911 if not buy a caterham if your poor buy a locost if you want to use it everyday buy an mx5

[McSam]

TypeRTom said:

Costs of fuel and consumables can go up quite quickly with heavier and more powerful cars, so I would stick to something light ish and sub 200bhp. Popular cheap track cars with low running costs are MX-5s, MR2s, Clios. E30/36 BMWs are also quite popular but I'd expect would cost more to run than the other three I mentioned.

Personally I'm not a fan of rough airfield circuits. Bedford is great for a first trackday as it's flat and there is very little to hit. I would recommend getting some tuition early on as it will make you faster and smoother.

Sound advice here. Any of the cars mentioned would be ideal. Not only are they cheap and plentiful, they're quite well-suited to track work out of the box and there are thousands of track-converted ones knocking around, so parts and knowledge are easy to come by. I have an E36 which I still drive to events and it's been incredibly cheap to run, total expenditure on the car (including purchase) has only just tipped £2000 after over a year. You can find my experiences here if they're of use.

I agree that Bedford is the ideal place to learn, it feels like a proper circuit (not an airfield) and has some nice challenging corners, but miles of runoff and no barriers/gravel traps to catch you out. Tuition is a must when starting out

OK, there's one gravel trap but you'd have to be going some, or run out of brakes, to end up in it!

[Mound Dawg]

If you're just dipping your toe then why not take your Z4M to a couple of trackdays to see if you get the buzz you're looking for?

You won't wreck it unless you drive like a tt and at least you get to try it for just the booking and fuel costs.

[QBee]

McSam said:

OK, there's one gravel trap but you'd have to be going some, or run out of brakes, to end up in it!

If you search Bedford M3 crash on UTube, you too can learn how to do just that!

[Horsepowersoul]

We are just in the process of working on an E36 track car and we're pretty happy with our choice. It's going to take an age before we can get out on track with it though. So much to do!

Previously we have really enjoyed taking our daily drivers round the track - it's worth a go It's unlikely that you will come to grief while you are just learning.

It seems to me that there are quite a lot of really decent little ready-prepped track cars for sale out there, might be a good idea to opt for one of those so that you can just fling it round happily(and with the right degree of caution of course) before deciding whether to do a build of your own.

Please take this as opinion rather than advice, as I am a complete novice

Hope your Mrs has a good go too

[hughcam]

Mk3 MR2 is what you need. More capable than an mx5 and cheaper to run. With semi slicks, and some decent pads they are a quick car.

[Thecarper]

I was a track day biker for many years and ended up with too many plates and pins in me so jumped onto the car track day for a slightly less dangerous thrill.

I was similar and started out all be it in an AMG C63. Admittedly this was my road/company lease car and shouldn't have been anywhere near a track but it taught me a hell of a lot in a short time.

1. It's not all about power. The car was the black upgrade so it had 510 BHP, but when the car weighs in at 1.8 tons, the fun of amazing torque on the straights went out the window when it came to cornering quickly.
2. I went out and bought a GTS (A poor mans Caterham)but this one came with a 2.0 Racline Duratech and it put out 210 BHP. I had more fun with car this than a 70K Merc and this cost me just £8K. Learning with a non aided rear wheel drive car teaches you so much more than driving with assisted driving controls.
3. I chopped in the GTS last year and bought a cheap Radical SR3 (£17K). Again a total different driving experience and this is the nearest I'll get to driving a full race car.

In all, I'd go for weight over power all day long. Try tracks which are forgiving with lots of run off i.e. Bedford, Snett etc. Don't bother with Novice days, they will restrict you being behind slow cars and they are mainly sessions, plus it sounds like you've raced before with bikes so you'll pick up the pace quickly.

My early Merc vids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WMqRKAuwxY (the orange car in front is the GTS I owned as well)

Enjoy and be safe

[chutley]

Thanks for all the replies, so great info.

I am now starting to think along the lines of an MX5 or MR2, just for the track. Next thing is whether to buy one that has been stripped, uprated brakes and roll cage, or go for a road legal one and pay someone to do it for me. Sadly, I don't have the skills , knowledge or time to do it myself.

What's the most economical way to go? Or should I pick up A road legal Mk3 MR2 for around £1300 and try it for a while before I commit?

How much would I expect to pay for tuition and who would I approach?

[QBee]

chutley said:

Thanks for all the replies, so great info.

I am now starting to think along the lines of an MX5 or MR2, just for the track. Next thing is whether to buy one that has been stripped, uprated brakes and roll cage, or go for a road legal one and pay someone to do it for me. Sadly, I don't have the skills , knowledge or time to do it myself.

What's the most economical way to go? Or should I pick up A road legal Mk3 MR2 for around £1300 and try it for a while before I commit?

How much would I expect to pay for tuition and who would I approach?

It's much cheaper to buy one already converted.

Make sure you get a road legal one with an MOT if you a) want to drive it to the track and b) want to do "road car only" track days.

Tuition is organized by the Track Day Organiser with whom you book a track day, and costs about £20 for 20 minutes. If you listen and learn, and are at all reasonable as a driver, you won't need more than a couple of sessions. You can also passenger ( just ask, don't be shy) with good drivers and see what lines they take and when they brake and change gear. Chat to people at the track. It's more fun if you make friends.

PS I am just down the road at Newark, if you want to pop over for a chat.

Edited by QBee on Wednesday 13th May 17:38

[Thecarper]

If you book up with Opentrack (Dave Woodall) you get free tuition on the day, free photo's and also free donuts.

[QBee]

Thecarper said:

"..... and also free donuts.

Edible or tyre shredding?

[ukkid35]

QBee said:

Tuition is organized by the Track Day Organiser with whom you book a track day, and costs about £20 for 20 minutes.

CircuitDays generally offer free tuition on a first come first served basis, even at The Ring.

[QBee]

Are you free (sorry, sounds a bit John Inman ) on Thursday? I am doing a track day at Mallory Park near Leicester in my TVR. Come along if you are, have some passenger rides, chat to the other owners, see what's what.

Here are the cars on track

http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.p...

I honestly cannot think of a better way of doing your research. It will cost you about 100 miles fuel and a fiver for a passenger pass. Bring your helmet (or I can lend you one).

That applies to anyone who is asking the same questions. Just turn up at the pits. Mine will be the only TVR on track.
Track time starts at about 9.30. I will be there from about 7.45, prepping the car, signing on, noise test, briefing. Track dayers are a very friendly bunch. Just ask.....

[chutley]

I thought I'd update the forum following the kind advice given...

Blew the budget and completely changed my mind on the car after I visited a few javelin rack days at Mallory, Cadwell and Blyton. had numerous passenger rides and talked to all sorts of owners. In the end I went for....


... a mental, MK Indy R with a ZX14R Bike engine. Totally ballistic and way faster then my ability. But I will take it steady and grow my skills with some tuition and patience.

The thing that made the decision - coming from Superbikes I loved the acceleration, the wind in your face (no screen), the noise, the bike sequential gearbox, the handling. I also love the running costs - tyres and pads last significantly longer than production cars as they are so light.

Anyway, hope to see and meet some of you on the track in the future. I will be the guy in a white indy R... going slowly with L plates!

[mikey P 500]

hughcam said:

Mk3 MR2 is what you need. More capable than an mx5 and cheaper to run. With semi slicks, and some decent pads they are a quick car.

Agree with this, I have have used 3 different mx5s on track days in the past and the mk3 mr2 is much better (not too far off a mk1 Elise I had, for far less cash.