Strange attitudes to some cars on track days
Discussion
I don't know if any of you guys notice this. But there is a strange attitude to certain makes and types of cars and their drivers on track days. It's a bit like some cars are just not socially acceptable to some people. Some people seem to have some pre-conceptions about such vehicles and they can be quite hard to overcome.
When I started track days, I only had time available in winter and some autumn/spring days. So I thought I would get a 4WD car to suit my needs. So I bought a Mitsubishi Evo 10. I have driven quick cars most of my life for one reason or another, and although the Evo 10 had good traction in the wet, I seriously dislike electronic nannies. So, they have been ditched.
These days, I have more time and track days are available to me all the year round. But the comments I get from some track dayers. "You bought a car to do the driving for you eh", or "it's alright for you in the wet, you have got electronics to get you out of trouble." Some people seem to think it shouldn't be out there with so called 'right thinking' RWD owners.
Where do these attitudes come from. I know they originally came with AYC and all that gubbins, but people don't believe you when you say it's not there. To some people my car still seems to be like showing a crucifix to a Vampire
I wish people didn't have such strong pre-conceptions.
When I started track days, I only had time available in winter and some autumn/spring days. So I thought I would get a 4WD car to suit my needs. So I bought a Mitsubishi Evo 10. I have driven quick cars most of my life for one reason or another, and although the Evo 10 had good traction in the wet, I seriously dislike electronic nannies. So, they have been ditched.
These days, I have more time and track days are available to me all the year round. But the comments I get from some track dayers. "You bought a car to do the driving for you eh", or "it's alright for you in the wet, you have got electronics to get you out of trouble." Some people seem to think it shouldn't be out there with so called 'right thinking' RWD owners.
Where do these attitudes come from. I know they originally came with AYC and all that gubbins, but people don't believe you when you say it's not there. To some people my car still seems to be like showing a crucifix to a Vampire
I wish people didn't have such strong pre-conceptions.
I have found (or more accurately, my son has) that the DSC on a Z4M Coupé must be switched off if the brakes are going to last the day. With it on, the system is constantly trying to correct what it sees as dangerous behaviour and much of this involves selective brake application outside the control of the driver. His brakes became ridiculously hot in a couple of laps only with DSC on, whereas with the DSC off, they fared much better.
Simple answer - most people haven't got a clue about these things and spout the drivel they hear on top gear or down the pub. Evo's don't have things like traction control or brake assist to help control a slide.
AYC /SAYC is just a horrible torque bias system that is supposed to help a driver maintain an over steering attitude but the non AYC models are actually much more fun on track.
Having owned a long list of Evo's and Impreza Spec C, Type 25, S202 etc have heard exactly the same rubbish from people. One of my most sideways ever driven track cars was an Evo 6 RS ( the base model for the rally cars, front and rear LSD's and no AYC) - an awesome car that let me pretend I was Tiff Needell for a few hours!
Unless you have owned a few it's unlikely you'd know about about all the ins and outs, much easier to just carry on talking b
ks like most people do?!
AYC /SAYC is just a horrible torque bias system that is supposed to help a driver maintain an over steering attitude but the non AYC models are actually much more fun on track.
Having owned a long list of Evo's and Impreza Spec C, Type 25, S202 etc have heard exactly the same rubbish from people. One of my most sideways ever driven track cars was an Evo 6 RS ( the base model for the rally cars, front and rear LSD's and no AYC) - an awesome car that let me pretend I was Tiff Needell for a few hours!
Unless you have owned a few it's unlikely you'd know about about all the ins and outs, much easier to just carry on talking b
ks like most people do?!Edited by rallycross on Saturday 11th July 18:43
rallycross said:
Simple answer - most people haven't got a clue about these things and spout the drivel they hear on top gear or down the pub. Evo's don't have things like traction control or brake assist to help control a slide.
AYC /SAYC is just a horrible torque bias system that is supposed to help a driver maintain an over steering attitude but the non AYC models are actually much more fun on track.
Having owned a long list of Evo's and Impreza Spec C, Type 25, S202 etc have heard exactly the same rubbish from people. One of my most sideways ever driven track cars was an Evo 6 RS ( the base model for the rally cars, front and rear LSD's and no AYC) - an awesome car that let me pretend I was Tiff Needell for a few hours!
Unless you have owned a few it's unlikely you'd know about about all the ins and outs, much easier to just carry on talking bks like most people do?!
Still, 4wd evo is easier to drive than an exige on R888's in the wet!AYC /SAYC is just a horrible torque bias system that is supposed to help a driver maintain an over steering attitude but the non AYC models are actually much more fun on track.
Having owned a long list of Evo's and Impreza Spec C, Type 25, S202 etc have heard exactly the same rubbish from people. One of my most sideways ever driven track cars was an Evo 6 RS ( the base model for the rally cars, front and rear LSD's and no AYC) - an awesome car that let me pretend I was Tiff Needell for a few hours!
Unless you have owned a few it's unlikely you'd know about about all the ins and outs, much easier to just carry on talking b
ks like most people do?!Edited by rallycross on Saturday 11th July 18:43
Mike22233 said:
Still, 4wd evo is easier to drive than an exige on R888's in the wet!
Definitely the case, just as it would be in some old 4x4 like an XR4x4 there is nothing clever going on - much the same as in an Evo or Impreza its the 4 wd that helps keep you pointing the right direction you can take huge liberties in going sideways.rallycross said:
Simple answer - most people haven't got a clue about these things and spout the drivel they hear on top gear or down the pub. Evo's don't have things like traction control or brake assist to help control a slide.
AYC /SAYC is just a horrible torque bias system that is supposed to help a driver maintain an over steering attitude but the non AYC models are actually much more fun on track.
Having owned a long list of Evo's and Impreza Spec C, Type 25, S202 etc have heard exactly the same rubbish from people. One of my most sideways ever driven track cars was an Evo 6 RS ( the base model for the rally cars, front and rear LSD's and no AYC) - an awesome car that let me pretend I was Tiff Needell for a few hours!
Unless you have owned a few it's unlikely you'd know about about all the ins and outs, much easier to just carry on talking bks like most people do?!
Have to agree on the horrible torque bias system of AYC/ESC systems. Took mine away, put in a mechanical non AYC RS rear Diff, replaced the stock ECU with a MoTeC and underneath was a lovely handling car, with 4WD. It responds to your every command and not that of the nanny electronics. Makes me wonder why they didn't make them like that anyway.AYC /SAYC is just a horrible torque bias system that is supposed to help a driver maintain an over steering attitude but the non AYC models are actually much more fun on track.
Having owned a long list of Evo's and Impreza Spec C, Type 25, S202 etc have heard exactly the same rubbish from people. One of my most sideways ever driven track cars was an Evo 6 RS ( the base model for the rally cars, front and rear LSD's and no AYC) - an awesome car that let me pretend I was Tiff Needell for a few hours!
Unless you have owned a few it's unlikely you'd know about about all the ins and outs, much easier to just carry on talking b
ks like most people do?!So many people ask if it adds brake assist on corners to help turn in, it has none of that. Having driven the XR4x4 years ago at speed, the Evo is just a sharper more modern version really. But some people at track days still think it's some kind of playstation on wheels.
rallycross said:
That's an odd statement - maybe try an MLR track day and see how quick a well driven Evo will go.
The only track day video that has ever stuck in my head is this MLR one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKoxsmP5kXYMLR trackdays are a nightmare. Lots of people with big turbo's and many with little ability. I was there on that day and the driving ability/standard was appalling. Probably the scariest track day I have done at Combe. It was more slippery than usual, but all the same..... It was a long time ago now though.
TheInternet said:
The only track day video that has ever stuck in my head is this MLR one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKoxsmP5kXY
Thats like watching an old super 8 movie I drive a caterham R400, so could be seen as one of the RWD brigade,,,, b*st, one of the best experiences I had was on a td with Evos, well driven, fast and really good fun. Personally after years of doing td's, I've never seen any of the look down the nose attitude implied by this post...
t, one of the best experiences I had was on a td with Evos, well driven, fast and really good fun. Personally after years of doing td's, I've never seen any of the look down the nose attitude implied by this post...mgv8dave said:
TheInternet said:
The only track day video that has ever stuck in my head is this MLR one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKoxsmP5kXY
Thats like watching an old super 8 movie Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff