Next track car?

[Quintaint]

I've been tracking an old N/A MR2 for a couple of years. I uprated the brakes and had instruction, and I can get it round corners as quick as most others. However on the straights the guys with power come flying by. No problem with that, I always pull over quickly, but recently I've been getting more and more of the power guys diving into my braking zone, culminating in one guy undertaking me on the grass at the apex last time out. Comment from the organiser was "we're never going to solve the power versus cornering problem"!

So the solution is give up, or get more power so they can't catch me down the straights. My thoughts are...
1. MR2 turbo or MR2 with V6 conversion (like the idea of a stealth car).
2. Zenos E10s (bit of a gamble, but I like the look. Not stealth though....)
3. Some form of Caterham(not really a fan, but I'm going to hire one for a day to see).

It needs to be light and chuckable. I'm not a straight line power freak. Budget is whatever I can get passed SWMBO, so a prettier car would have more chance...!

[james_gt3rs]

Which organizer and/or track out of interest? Outbraking on the grass is pretty reckless on a TD.

[Itsallicanafford]

Cayman? 3.2s with a spare set of Boots for the track...

[vanman1936]

I have an MR2 Turbo that I track that I may be selling - been a great car and QUICK.

PM me if interested.

P

[MR2_SC]

What's your budget? Quite a range based on mr2 or zenos e10?

Caterham is a great choice (obviously) but not much fun when it rains.

You could look out for a mk3 mr2 with a 2zz conversion.

My choice is a vx220. Even the non turbo version can be driven pretty quickly without being expensive to buy or run:
Brands Hatch https://youtu.be/ocqtP6IRaO8

Plus if you decide you want more power later a supercharger can be added taking power beyond the zenos for well under half the cost. It makes it quite rapid: https://youtu.be/vVng_N_c7IM

Edited by MR2_SC on Friday 17th July 19:35

[Quintaint]

Thanks for the responses. I'm probably not allowed to name and shame, but I now have video in the car...
I like Porsche, but I was a bit put off when chatting to a Porsche owner at a track day who reckoned he went through more discs than disc pads in a season and that was at £900 per set of discs.
I'm tempted by the turbo, but I want to try out a Zenos and a Caterham first.
Budget is flexible. I could go to a Caterham R620 (they fail the noise tests I'm told and they look so fragile) or even an Exige, but SWMBO doesn't see the point in track days and would rather I killed myself in a cheap car. VX220 sounds worth looking into as long as it can stay ahead of the BMW/Audi/GTR dunderheads between the bends. Or even a mk3 MR2 V6 supercharged!! Hmmm...

Edited by Quintaint on Saturday 18th July 09:05

[FlyingTrotter]

If you are looking at caterhams it would be worth also trying an Atom - recently sold mine after 5 years - in that time lots of track days and the maintenance costs were tiny (upgrading can get addictive and pricey) and sold for pretty much what I paid 5 years earlier

[jonnyleroux]

Quintaint said:

I could go to a Caterham R620 (they fail the noise tests I'm told and they look so fragile)

The new rear-exit twin-silencer system on the 620R is fine - we've had no noise issues with ours anywhere (including bedford & brands).

As for reliability - ours has done 20 track days since we built it (29th April) with no significant issues whatsoever. We wouldn't have bought 2 of them if reliability was an issue as it wouldn't make business sense to rent an unreliable car.

If you're serious about buying one, get in touch and we'll see if we can help.

Jonny
BaT

Edited by jonnyleroux on Saturday 18th July 09:45

[rallycross]

What you need is an Integra Type R Dc2
190 bhp
Lsd
Brilliant handling
It's light and has little 15 inch wheels so is cheap on brakes and tyres.
( my one may even. Be for sale in the PH classified).

Or find a good Nissan 200sx that's had its brakes and suspension uprated

[Robert Elise]

Are you staying off line for too long?
Pull over on the straights yes, but then clearly signal "it's now my corner" by moving back out. You're now on the fastest line with a lighter, later braking car so there should be few issues.
I track a 1.6 Eunos myself and i'm aware of the pressure, but with clear and clean track positioning i find few problems. In fact i often select top gear on long straights and cruise, so i can stay out longer. Paradoxically this means i'm able to corner much faster at the next corner, as with a slower approach speed judgement is easier, i don't over-brake and i carry more speed.
A great example is Paddock where after 'a little rest' along the straight i take the corner with very light braking; fast cars behind that were just getting on my tail aren't seen again until Cooper.

[cwin]

Quintaint said:

Thanks for the responses. I'm probably not allowed to name and shame, but I now have video in the car...
I like Porsche, but I was a bit put off when chatting to a Porsche owner at a track day who reckoned he went through more discs than disc pads in a season and that was at £900 per set of discs.
I'm tempted by the turbo, but I want to try out a Zenos and a Caterham first.
Budget is flexible. I could go to a Caterham R620 (they fail the noise tests I'm told and they look so fragile) or even an Exige, but SWMBO doesn't see the point in track days and would rather I killed myself in a cheap car. VX220 sounds worth looking into as long as it can stay ahead of the BMW/Audi/GTR dunderheads between the bends. Or even a mk3 MR2 V6 supercharged!! Hmmm...

Edited by Quintaint on Saturday 18th July 09:05

Try a Caterham, Bookatrack will hire you one.


Caterham all the way, buy a dry suit for the rain and you will have more fun than in anything else, I had a supercharged Atom and it was fun but not in the same league as the Caterham for driving control.

An R300 Duratec is perfect, here is some footage in the wet at Donington in a standard car. http://youtu.be/abqLDJKMAsc



Our new car we have just built runs 2.36 round Spa on street legal Avon tyres and 1:13s round Donington on the same, you won't have anyone passing you in that on a track day with no noise issues, http://youtu.be/5nSII0HEkU4

If you find the 2.0 Duratec not fast enough just tune it,

Edited by cwin on Saturday 18th July 10:09

[McSam]

The discussion of the car aside, I too would like to know where and which date (see, no need to name an organiser) you had someone try and dive up your inside on the grass..

You say your other half "doesn't see the point", but have you ever taken her on a track day? Admittedly I start from the advantage of my fiancée wanting to find out more about motorsport and what I do, but she was never remotely interested before we started seeing each other. I took her on her first track day at the end of last season and she developed into a pretty tidy driver, and is now keen to do more - this could serve as a very useful budget-enhancing exercise for you

As a colleague once told me of his own wife, "she's talking crap, how can you not love it, it's fking awesome!"

[anonymous-user]

That's piss-poor from the TDO.

It's a track day not a race. Overtaking in the braking zone is a black flag situation. Enforce that properly and bingo, you've fixed the problem.

[NJH]

Cost of disks and pads is almost entirely down to the weight and power of the car combined with the manufacturer of those parts, don't believe me look at the price of pads for Porsches and compare to the prices for similar spec pads for other cars using similarly big Brembo calipers like Renaults (Performance Friction and Pagid options identical near enough prices). If you want to keep the consumables costs down (brakes/tyres) you have to go low weight its as simple as that.

[Quintaint]

It looks like we could have a number of interesting threads from this, like "WAGs at track days", "Dangerous driving at track days" & " Power cars versus handling cars, how to mix them on track". However to stick with the original topic, thanks for all the suggestions which I am digesting. Further thoughts are I'd prefer minimal driver aids, so no power steering, ABS or traction control, though I'm not sure about LSD.I want my own incompetence to shine through...
Also it must have helmet headroom or open roof. I once got Transient Global Amnesia after banging my head on the roof of the MR2 so I now always do track days with the roof (T-bar) off. So I think I've argued against another MR2 and the Caterham videos are impressive. I wonder what I can get past SWMBO....

[cat with a hat]

vx220 turbo would be my solution

[jonnyleroux]

MR2_SC said:

Caterham is a great choice (obviously) but not much fun when it rains.

Caterham 620R in the wet at Spa-Francorchamps earlier this month - just about the most fun i've ever had with a steering wheel in my hands:-

http://youtu.be/jFQEuIV3fkA

Proof that you can never have too much power as long as you have an LSD

Jonny
BaT

[andyiley]

I would be with Johnny on the LSD question.