Daily driver for the odd trackday?
Discussion
I currently have a BMW 335D Touring, remapped to around 350bhp and 700Nm - a simply brilliant road car, but not really suited for trackdays. I used to do a lot of trackdays on motorbikes, but in recent years I am only doing 1 or 2 a year, and fancy going back to car trackdays for a bit of a change.
Whilst the BMW could handle a trackday I'm sure, it's too heavy to be really enjoyable, and given getting the tail sliding out of every bend is frowned upon, the level of enjoyment will be minimal.
So, I am considering changing it for something still great as a daily driver, but that is also more suited for trackdays. Budget for this car would be around £30k, although if I can spend £20k instead then great. It's got to be a comfortable (and reasonably practical) road car, so no Elise/Exige type vehicles, please.
In the past I've had a Cayman S, but these are very expensive on consumables like brakes and tyres, so that is a concern. I loved the S2000 I had years ago, but am worried they will feel really gutless after the torquey BMW and Porsche. Other cars I've considered (but not driven) are:
- Lotus Evora (too impractical?)
- Lotus Europa S
- BMW M3 (V8)
- BMW Z4 M Coupe
- Maserati GranSport (almost certainly worst than the Porsche for consumables!)
Anything else worthy of consideration for the money? As you can probably tell from my list/previous vehicles, RWD is a must
Other than these, I'm back to Porsche with a Cayman S (or R) I think?
Whilst the BMW could handle a trackday I'm sure, it's too heavy to be really enjoyable, and given getting the tail sliding out of every bend is frowned upon, the level of enjoyment will be minimal.
So, I am considering changing it for something still great as a daily driver, but that is also more suited for trackdays. Budget for this car would be around £30k, although if I can spend £20k instead then great. It's got to be a comfortable (and reasonably practical) road car, so no Elise/Exige type vehicles, please.
In the past I've had a Cayman S, but these are very expensive on consumables like brakes and tyres, so that is a concern. I loved the S2000 I had years ago, but am worried they will feel really gutless after the torquey BMW and Porsche. Other cars I've considered (but not driven) are:
- Lotus Evora (too impractical?)
- Lotus Europa S
- BMW M3 (V8)
- BMW Z4 M Coupe
- Maserati GranSport (almost certainly worst than the Porsche for consumables!)
Anything else worthy of consideration for the money? As you can probably tell from my list/previous vehicles, RWD is a must
Other than these, I'm back to Porsche with a Cayman S (or R) I think?IMHO, you'll be hard pushed to beat the boxster/cayman for that kind of role, and while it may make you wince at the time, based on (say) <3 track days a year, I don't think the consumables will make any practical difference, particularly vs the cars you mention.
Basing that on having run my boxster s on track & road. Tires from blackcircles, brakes and discs from design911 (OEM equivalent, not porsche branded) helps keep the price sensible - as you no doubt know the discs are made of cheese and corrode long before they wear out anyway!
Basing that on having run my boxster s on track & road. Tires from blackcircles, brakes and discs from design911 (OEM equivalent, not porsche branded) helps keep the price sensible - as you no doubt know the discs are made of cheese and corrode long before they wear out anyway!
with that kind of budget, why not run a dedicated track car? any comfortable, practical road car will be compromised for track duty. given you already have the perfect towing car, what you need is a single axle trailer and a caterham or similar - that way all the spares fit in the boot easily, you have a perfectly practical, capable estate for normal road use, and then a batsh*t mental caterham track car.
and as the track car is a dedicated car, it can be set up without compromise for track use, which will make it so much better than any dual purpose road car.
and as the track car is a dedicated car, it can be set up without compromise for track use, which will make it so much better than any dual purpose road car.
I think you need to decide how committed you are to doing trackdays to decide the right path.
I've just swapped from a two car setup to a single car. I was doing 6-8 or so a year.
My circumstances changed, I did less trackdays and moved closer to work so it was hard to justify £8k or so sat on the drive doing nothing. I sold both the derv work hack and the track car to purchase an e92 M3. It has more uses and I get better value from it and it's certainly upto a few trackdays a year.
Consumables are more expensive and realistically being best part of 120-130bhp more it's probably slower than my old track car on circuit but that's the trade off.
Decide on your comittment and go from there. I would be looking at a cheap dedicated car like a clio 182 cup for sub £3k. Some decent rubber, pads and fluid and give it a whirl. Minimal consequences if things change.
I've just swapped from a two car setup to a single car. I was doing 6-8 or so a year.
My circumstances changed, I did less trackdays and moved closer to work so it was hard to justify £8k or so sat on the drive doing nothing. I sold both the derv work hack and the track car to purchase an e92 M3. It has more uses and I get better value from it and it's certainly upto a few trackdays a year.
Consumables are more expensive and realistically being best part of 120-130bhp more it's probably slower than my old track car on circuit but that's the trade off.
Decide on your comittment and go from there. I would be looking at a cheap dedicated car like a clio 182 cup for sub £3k. Some decent rubber, pads and fluid and give it a whirl. Minimal consequences if things change.
Is the Maserati or the m3 that much lighter than your diesel BMW?
I've driven a lot of heavy cars on track, and I can't say the weight itself was a huge concern for me. As long as the balance is ok, there is some adjustability and a bit of precision I usually really enjoy the drive. Tyres and brakes obviously have a tougher time with more weight, so that is worth consideration.
I've driven a lot of heavy cars on track, and I can't say the weight itself was a huge concern for me. As long as the balance is ok, there is some adjustability and a bit of precision I usually really enjoy the drive. Tyres and brakes obviously have a tougher time with more weight, so that is worth consideration.
OP,
All of the cars you listed will be just as bad (if not worse) than the Cayman on consumables.
For the role you want, a Cayman is definitely one of the best choices.
I've tracked an e36 M3, then an e46 M3 (which I kept modifying to be better on track).
I then went down the two car route: 320d and Lotus Elise SC.
In reality, I spent most of my life driving the boring car and wanted to swap back to a single car and had exactly your problem.
I went for a Cayman S and still think it was probably the best choice for my circumstances / budget.
In reality they are not that bad on consumables if you are sensible / choose the right components.
I just changed all four brake discs, which were the original 6 year old ones. They had done 34,000 miles and 5 trackdays. Replacement Sebro discs from carparts4less were about £62 each, including delivery.
I chose to swap out pads for trackdays. A set of Pagid RS29 pads may be over £200 to buy, but they should last 4 trackdays (and won't fade). Stick the standard Textar ones back in for road driving.
I use Michelin Pilot Supersport tyres which handle track use pretty well. A set of rears should last 4 trackdays and several thousand road miles. The fronts will last much longer.
(Note that I did have an alignment done to get maximum front camber and a decent amount on the rear. This will help tyre life on track)
For a 'jack-of-all-trades' car you're always going to have relatively high expenses on track compared to a Lotus / Caterham. Everyday comfort = weight, which means hard work for tyres and brakes. I personally think the Cayman (or Boxster) is the best compromise.
All of the cars you listed will be just as bad (if not worse) than the Cayman on consumables.
For the role you want, a Cayman is definitely one of the best choices.
I've tracked an e36 M3, then an e46 M3 (which I kept modifying to be better on track).
I then went down the two car route: 320d and Lotus Elise SC.
In reality, I spent most of my life driving the boring car and wanted to swap back to a single car and had exactly your problem.
I went for a Cayman S and still think it was probably the best choice for my circumstances / budget.
In reality they are not that bad on consumables if you are sensible / choose the right components.
I just changed all four brake discs, which were the original 6 year old ones. They had done 34,000 miles and 5 trackdays. Replacement Sebro discs from carparts4less were about £62 each, including delivery.
I chose to swap out pads for trackdays. A set of Pagid RS29 pads may be over £200 to buy, but they should last 4 trackdays (and won't fade). Stick the standard Textar ones back in for road driving.
I use Michelin Pilot Supersport tyres which handle track use pretty well. A set of rears should last 4 trackdays and several thousand road miles. The fronts will last much longer.
(Note that I did have an alignment done to get maximum front camber and a decent amount on the rear. This will help tyre life on track)
For a 'jack-of-all-trades' car you're always going to have relatively high expenses on track compared to a Lotus / Caterham. Everyday comfort = weight, which means hard work for tyres and brakes. I personally think the Cayman (or Boxster) is the best compromise.
Thanks for all the comments guys! Pretty much confirms my suspicions.
I don't really have the time to dedicate myself to regular trackdays, plus I would still do a couple of bike trackdays throughout the year too anyway. So having a dedicated track car makes no sense for me.
The Maserati was a bit left field, just always wanted one - but a bit too special for trackdays, perhaps. But then people take Ferrari's, so why not?
I think the choice is either another Cayman S or a Lotus Evora...I would say the Porsche is the better bet, but given my last one required a new gearbox at 34,000 miles (failed input shaft bearing) I'm not convinced!
I don't really have the time to dedicate myself to regular trackdays, plus I would still do a couple of bike trackdays throughout the year too anyway. So having a dedicated track car makes no sense for me.
The Maserati was a bit left field, just always wanted one - but a bit too special for trackdays, perhaps. But then people take Ferrari's, so why not?
I think the choice is either another Cayman S or a Lotus Evora...I would say the Porsche is the better bet, but given my last one required a new gearbox at 34,000 miles (failed input shaft bearing) I'm not convinced!
james_gt3rs said:
Can you get a 996 Turbo in budget?
Yes, I could, but the 996 interior is so dated, and to be honest I prefer the mid-engined layout of the Cayman for trackday shenanigans! Amazingly, Cayman R models are still over £40k, so I'd probably stick with a Cayman S if I went back down that route...
Undirection said:
Euoropa S is essentially and Elise with a roof and a bit more comfort
Evora would be fantasitc.
Does it need to be RWD? Is not you've got the predictable GOlf R and RS Megane plus new RS Focus and CTR. Hard to beat them for performance and practicality and 'trackability'!
Yeah, Is aid in my last but one post it would be Cayman S or Evora - as you say, the Europa is just a re-dressed Elise, so not a good enough daily driver proposition for me!Evora would be fantasitc.
Does it need to be RWD? Is not you've got the predictable GOlf R and RS Megane plus new RS Focus and CTR. Hard to beat them for performance and practicality and 'trackability'!
And yes, RWD is a must...
I run a z4MC lightly modified in a similar usage description to yours. I would recommend trying one, out of the box they're not really great unlike the Cayman I suspect, however a few choice mods can really make the car sing. It's a lovely challenge to drive fast, and mine at least keeps up with some far more exotic/focused machinery. I'm on low 1:18s at Combe my local track, so fast but yes consumables take a beating.
Mike_C said:
The Maserati was a bit left field, just always wanted one - but a bit too special for trackdays, perhaps. But then people take Ferrari's, so why not?
Haha it would be more cost effective to heat your house by burning twenty pound notes than running a maser as a track car!!!Gorgeous looking cars mind.
Mike_C said:
I've actually been looking at 997 Carrera S'...they look nice, and good value compared to Gen II Cayman S'!
Heavier so their running costs will be higher. Bigger tyres too: if you go for a 987 Cayman you might consider having a set of 18" wheels for it specifically for better weather and track days - cheaper than 19s!I've been using a Z4MC for track days, 'Ring trips and as my daily driver for almost 7 years. Currently got 145,000 miles on it.
Am currently doing about 25,000 miles a year in it, and it's only this year that I've actually got around to doing something about the suspension - but that was due anyway as it was on it's original suspension.
The only other mods I've done are for a bit of exhaust/intake noise, replacing the Conti M3 tyres with Pilot Supersports, and putting better pads on.
Only do 2-3 UK track days a year, but also do 50-75 laps of the 'Ring a year (over 3 long weekends).
There are some very low mileage ones out there that will set you back £20k+, but if you're looking at condition and not mileage, then I'm sure you can find one with 60k miles on it for less than £15k, then then you can spend £4k on decent suspension and upgraded brakes (and maybe a bucket seat).
Am currently doing about 25,000 miles a year in it, and it's only this year that I've actually got around to doing something about the suspension - but that was due anyway as it was on it's original suspension.
The only other mods I've done are for a bit of exhaust/intake noise, replacing the Conti M3 tyres with Pilot Supersports, and putting better pads on.
Only do 2-3 UK track days a year, but also do 50-75 laps of the 'Ring a year (over 3 long weekends).
There are some very low mileage ones out there that will set you back £20k+, but if you're looking at condition and not mileage, then I'm sure you can find one with 60k miles on it for less than £15k, then then you can spend £4k on decent suspension and upgraded brakes (and maybe a bucket seat).
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