Which track car after e36 m3?

[e46m3c]

Hi Guys,

Currently got a track specc'ed e36 m3 evo and looking to move onto the next challenge.

Its currently about 1250kgm caged, 325 bhp so 260bhp/ton.

I now have a trailer and tow car so doesnt have to be road legal.

Will a caterham give a significant step up in terms of engagement over the e46? No power steering or abs or power brakes.

Id really like a bit more punch than my current 260/ton.

Perhaps a vx220 with 250bhp would also be a significant change? And more usable in the wet (has a roof).

what do you all think? Anyone gone from e36 track weapon to something new? what is your experience?

[e46m3c]

Another idea would be a fully stripped Rx7. Hopefully that can be light enough to ditch the PS and brakes. Plus easy 400bhp should give me the kick i like.

[Henry Fiddleton]

I thought your M3 would be more than quick enough on most track days!

Possibly a slower lap time, but more of challenge would be my thoughts - caterham esk

[e46m3c]

Always fancied a bec like an mnr vortex with r1 engine.

Is it significant difference to desire?

The e36 is about sorted now.

[E-bmw]

I saw a lunatic option a few years ago at Cadwell.

2 x ZX9 engines made into a V8 in a Caterham style car!!!!!!!!

[DanGPR]

What's your budget? A well specced M3 is probably worth about 10k?
There's a supercharged VX220 track car for 15k on eBay that looks pretty sorted
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2ltr-SUPERCHARGED-Race...


Or a DAX Rush V8, around 350bhp which would be absolutely mental, lack of roof or windscreen , though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAX-RUSH-5-2-JE-DEVELOPM...

[T0MMY]

e46m3c said:

Always fancied a bec like an mnr vortex with r1 engine.

Is it significant difference to desire?

The e36 is about sorted now.

Funnily enough that's exactly what I've got. It's easily the most involving and challenging car I've had so I'd recommend it or something similar. The manic engine and sequential box are perfect for a track car.

I've done a lot of road miles but only done one trackday in it so far as I spent most of last year working on it. Generally when I've taken a new car on track I've felt that I've got reasonably close to the best I can get out of it after a few sessions but after a whole day at Cadwell in the MNR I felt like I had only just scratched the surface of what it could do and my laptimes were indeed comparatively pitiful (mid 1.40s which is 3 or 4 seconds off the true capability I think) Basically a steep learning curve so you won't get bored and you'll also spend a lot of time tinkering with it too.

[MR2_SC]

I went from a track/Road e36 3.0 M3 to a vx220 and have never looked back.

Started with the 145bhp 2.2 and it just wasn't enough power after the M3. Despite being quick around the track it got a bit frustrating being held up in the corners and not being able to pull past on the straight. With close to 250bhp it's much easier to get past traffic.

Totally different feeling to an m3 though. Much more nimble and can be run lap after lap and used over multiple days without having to replace stuff. I get more track time as a result.

Having said that I quite fancy a track prepped Caterham which seems more 'adjustable' and even cheaper to run..

If you want more info on VX220s get over to vx220.org.uk come along to a track day and get a passenger ride you can join the many debates on supercharged vs turbo charged.

[e46m3c]

Sounds good. How about bec vs car engine? Yeah 10k budget Max. 15 possibly too much as I need to buy a trailer too.

Anyone had both vx and caterham? Caterham looks fantastic but the idea of a roof is appealing! How far apart are they?

Best place to look for a bec?

I'd want atleast 170 bhp in a bec I think

[T0MMY]

e46m3c said:

Sounds good. How about bec vs car engine? Yeah 10k budget Max. 15 possibly too much as I need to buy a trailer too.

Anyone had both vx and caterham? Caterham looks fantastic but the idea of a roof is appealing! How far apart are they?

Best place to look for a bec?

I'd want atleast 170 bhp in a bec I think

For £10k I don't think you'd get a car engined kitcar as quick as a BEC very easily. They need a bit more power to match BECs as they're heavier and don't have the gear ratio and shift speed advantages. For road use CEC might be better but on track I'd definitely go BEC with your budget.

170+bhp from a BEC probably requires a >1000cc engine (busa, ZX12 etc.) which are a lot more expensive, although I think the recent Fireblade engines they tend to use in the RGB series can produce around that. I wouldn't write off the much more common and cheaper ~150bhp engines though as they'll still give you 300bhp/tonne and besides, these cars are about handling not straight line speed.

I don't think for your budget you should look at Caterhams though as you'd be looking at older slower cars, not swanky R300s and the like and the other brands will give you more for your money (MNR, MK, Sylva, Tiger etc.). Locost builders forum is a good place to look for them.

[e46m3c]

Bec sounds like a good option then.

Ive heared certain BEC's chew engines. There is a thread on hear of an f27 which is scarey.

Is there any particular heirachy of kitcar quality? I mean is tiger better than mnr better than locost? Or are they all much the same.

[GetCarter]

O/P

I've had two M3's on track as well as Lotus, 911, etc and three Caterhams. (VVC to R500)

Caterhams are in a different league. SO much quicker, even in low power spec. If you are into your track days... make sure you drive one on track before you buy anything else!

[james_gt3rs]

If it doesn't get driven on teh road then Caterham all the way. With its tiny tyres and brakes you can't argue against the costs, and they look a lot easier work on than the Elise platform!

[T0MMY]

e46m3c said:

Bec sounds like a good option then.

Ive heared certain BEC's chew engines. There is a thread on hear of an f27 which is scarey.

Is there any particular heirachy of kitcar quality? I mean is tiger better than mnr better than locost? Or are they all much the same.

I've only ever had my MNR so can't comment based on experience but I did a lot of reading up of my options before I got it and bought it as people really rated them for their handling. To be honest though, the only marque I ever really heard criticised majorly was Robin Hood. Even within a single brand no two kitcars are exactly alike, taking into account the geometry set up, weight and quality of suspension components so it would be hard to say one particular model is always better than another (and I'm sure someone has a Robin Hood that handles amazingly because it's been modified and very well set up).

As for chewing engines, again I've only got my own car to comment on and despite buying it VERY cheap as a beaten up old non-runner, it's been reliable engine wise for 6,000 road miles and 1 trackday and I do thrash it pretty much everywhere (there's really no alternative in these things). A few other bits have broken but not the engine or gearbox and the engine itself is 12 years old now.

[van cleef]

I had a BEC for around 4 years. Bang for buck they are had to beat but they do come with problems, and all I can say is do your homework if you fancy one.

Munching gearboxes was my worst enemy.

This would be my choice if I were looking again.

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/68711/we...

[e46m3c]

Any particular bike engines to go for or avoid?

I have to be honest, i am handy with the spanners but i am after low maintainence.

Great think about the m3 is you can drives the balls of it, park it up in the garage for a couple months, then start it up and go thrash the balls off it again and it doesnt even notice.

[e46m3c]

van cleef said:

I had a BEC for around 4 years. Bang for buck they are had to beat but they do come with problems, and all I can say is do your homework if you fancy one.

Munching gearboxes was my worst enemy.

This would be my choice if I were looking again.

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/68711/we...

That car looks perferct! But i need to sell one of my current cars first i think.

[T0MMY]

e46m3c said:

Any particular bike engines to go for or avoid?

I have to be honest, i am handy with the spanners but i am after low maintainence.

Great think about the m3 is you can drives the balls of it, park it up in the garage for a couple months, then start it up and go thrash the balls off it again and it doesnt even notice.

Although mine has been fundamentally reliable I'm not sure I'd call it low maintenance. Only 1 trip home with the RAC and that was only a broken throttle cable that I fixed the same day but there's always little bits of tinkering required. It's not like I'm working on it every weekend but it certainly isn't as care-free as a "normal" car. That said, once I'd got it together and fixed the numerous issues it had when I bought it I haven't had to do a lot more I guess, and as I said, I bought mine needing a lot of work (as in, "here's most of the car on the trailer, and here's the rest of the car in these boxes in the back of my van"). For £10k you should be able to get a very smart one that's fairly new and ready to go.

[e46m3c]

ok great.

Think ive made my mind up now. Thats for all the input.

Would love that one in the link and fired him an email.

Its about 4 hr drive away and i havnt got a trailer (or anwhere to keep it) at the moment. We shall see though!

[T0MMY]

e46m3c said:

ok great.

Think ive made my mind up now. Thats for all the input.

Would love that one in the link and fired him an email.

Its about 4 hr drive away and i havnt got a trailer (or anwhere to keep it) at the moment. We shall see though!

It looks fantastic, should be a real weapon

For all the pros and cons mentioned, one other thing that was overlooked is that every time you get in one of these to go for a drive, it always feels like a real event. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.