What's faster?

[CEG]

I am a naïve novice, who knows very little about motorsport..... However, I'm learning slowly!

I recently took my standard 09 Boxster 2.9 on a track day at Bedford and enjoyed it immensely. I was surprised at just how good the car was (in my opinion). So tell me, driven by an expert (I'm not) would a Clio 182 Trophy be quicker?

Thanks,

CEG

[xjay1337]

Depends entirely on the track.
Twisty track like Cadwell, yes.

Big track like Donnington, no.

Next.

[nightSpirit]

Why are you asking? Did a Clio leave you standing on the track or are you thinking of buying one?

[MR2_SC]

xjay1337 said:

Depends entirely on the track.
Twisty track like Cadwell, yes.

Big track like Donnington, no.

Next.

As above.

Plus it depends a lot on tyres, brakes and suspension. A standard looking car can be made quite a bit quicker over a lap with adjustments in these areas.

[motorhole]

Most drivers will feel far more comfortable taking a Clio 182 to its limit and beyond than a Porsche Boxter. Generally far more predictable at the limit.

It is for that reason alone that a stripped and caged 182 with semi-slicks, brake and suspension upgrades is a very difficult car to keep up with on pretty much any circuit, short of wide open ones like Bedford and Silverstone.

[CEG]

Thanks guys - useful.

No, it's not en ego thing that one left me at the track, just looks a good fun car, and I was thinking about getting one.

I took the 987 to Bedford, hence why it probably felt like it out performed a fair few others, due to long straights and wide open tracks I guess....

All in all, the general consensus seems to be very positive about Clio 172/182, and Trophy being the pick of the bunch I guess. They command some cash tho!

Dan

[upsidedownmark]

Personally I can't see why you'd change, unless you want to keep the boxster for nice (which I suggest is a bit daft, enjoy it!)

It's a very good track car.. mine was an 'S', but the brakes held up fine in stock form, the balance is lovely (and it's not snappy/difficult unless you do something daft).

Don't forget it's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast..

[Steve H]

xjay1337 said:

Depends entirely on the track.
Twisty track like Cadwell, yes.

Big track like Donnington, no.

Next.

Donington is a fast circuit but not necessarily a power circuit, some of the quickest cars round there on a trackday will be well set up hot-hatches. I'd agree with examples like Silverstone and Bedford but not Donny.

[QBee]

I was about equal at Cadwell with a Clio. It was a blue one. I caught and passed the other colours of Clios.

No idea how it was set up, but it carried speed through the corners well.

My car is 315bhp of TVR Chimaera, bigger brakes, track tyres and improved suspension.
I am a reasonable track day driver, not a beginner but a long way from a race driver.

[james_gt3rs]

Assuming an equal driver, Boxster is a different league to a Clio.

Expert vs novice, surely the cars are basically irrelevant?

[QBee]

You asked the wrong question in my opinion

The right question is "which car gives more pleasure/fun in a race track?"

[Neil - YVM]

james_gt3rs said:

Assuming an equal driver, Boxster is a different league to a Clio.

Expert vs novice, surely the cars are basically irrelevant?

I was toying with replacing my 172 cup track car with a Boxster, as it would be a much nicer summer / second car.

But don't think I could handle to downward performance step down on track.

Maybe I've never met a well driven one?

[QBee]

Neil - YVM said:

james_gt3rs said:

Assuming an equal driver, Boxster is a different league to a Clio.

Expert vs novice, surely the cars are basically irrelevant?

I was toying with replacing my 172 cup track car with a Boxster, as it would be a much nicer summer / second car.

But don't think I could handle to downward performance step down on track.

Maybe I've never met a well driven one?

Then you should make yourself the first, Neil. They are a well set up car - you could always remove the badges and teplace them with Renault badges so that nobody thinks you're a cock Porsche owner. Should be able to retain a little self-esteem that way

[james_gt3rs]

~190 bhp/ton vs 160 bhp/ton. So the Boxster will be faster on the straights. Mid engined rear drive will mean better traction and braking, wider track, lower COG = more grip. Look at a Boxster's Ring times it beats a lot of cars with more power.

I guess the reason you don't see them going fast on track is the owners don't want to break them, whereas the modified hot hatches have a more relaxed attitude to crashing IME...

[LordHaveMurci]

I have a 996 & a 172 Cup, done lots of hillclimbs in the Cup & it's great fun to drive at the limit.

Wouldn't want to hillclimb the 996, pretty sure I'd end up in a hedge.

For trackdays the Clio would be great fun & a whole lot cheaper to run I would think.

[Steve H]

james_gt3rs said:

~190 bhp/ton vs 160 bhp/ton. So the Boxster will be faster on the straights. Mid engined rear drive will mean better traction and braking, wider track, lower COG = more grip. Look at a Boxster's Ring times it beats a lot of cars with more power.

I guess the reason you don't see them going fast on track is the owners don't want to break them, whereas the modified hot hatches have a more relaxed attitude to crashing IME...

Or, hot hatchbacks are more forgiving and easier to control for novice/intermediate drivers and won't hit the owner with a near five figure bill if the engine gets lunched.........

[MR2_SC]

Having tracked FWD hot hatches my experience is that they can be quick but dull. I've always enjoyed MR cars so I'd take the boxster everyday regardless of lap time.

[upsidedownmark]

Steve H said:

Or, hot hatchbacks are more forgiving and easier to control for novice/intermediate drivers and won't hit the owner with a near five figure bill if the engine gets lunched.........

Ever driven a boxster 'in anger'? It's a pussycat. IME 'performance' front wheel drive cars are more nervous on corner entry.

Your '5 figure engine rebuild' is sensationalist nonsense. For one, a specialist like hartech will do it for well under 5 figures (comfortably under / around half way between 4 and 5), and for two, good used CARS are a lot less than 5 figures, so spending that on an engine rebuild would be a bit stupid.

[Neil - YVM]

james_gt3rs said:

~190 bhp/ton vs 160 bhp/ton. So the Boxster will be faster on the straights. Mid engined rear drive will mean better traction and braking, wider track, lower COG = more grip. Look at a Boxster's Ring times it beats a lot of cars with more power.

I guess the reason you don't see them going fast on track is the owners don't want to break them, whereas the modified hot hatches have a more relaxed attitude to crashing IME...

Power to weight will certainly effect speed on the straights,

but lower weight will give a big advantage in braking, cornering and therefore corner exit speed.

Don't get me wrong, I do like them, hence considering buying another one, but with the exception of a race prepared one at Rockingham a few weeks ago, my experience is that they're either aren't faster than a mildly track prepp'd clio or just aren't driven so hard?

[Neil - YVM]

QBee said:

Neil - YVM said:

james_gt3rs said:

Assuming an equal driver, Boxster is a different league to a Clio.

Expert vs novice, surely the cars are basically irrelevant?

I was toying with replacing mvy 172 cup track car with a Boxster, as it would be a much nicer summer / second car.

But don't think I could handle to downward performance step down on track.

Maybe I've never met a well driven one?

Then you should make yourself the first, Neil. They are a well set up car - you could always remove the badges and teplace them with Renault badges so that nobody thinks you're a cock Porsche owner. Should be able to retain a little self-esteem that way

It will definitely be the Clio's last season, so I may just do that.

I couldn't care what people think of me, hey I'm 50 years old and drive a Clio on track, and have previously tracked MX5 and S2000 so I have 'hairdresser ' history.