Radical style trackday car for 10-15k possible??
Discussion
With Lotus now entering the ring of track or circuit cars with it's aptly named 'Circuit Car' and the existence of car such as the Radical, JP1, etc. ever think that there'll be a car available either off the shelf or in home build format for 10-15k?
I'm not talking about a Locost or Westfield but rather a car with the look of an LMP2. So not an open wheeler, but a low front end and a raised rear spoiler, possibly a rear diffuser and front splitter. Something that is track only, has a very good power to weight ratio but for which parts are not prohibitably expensive.
The body parts secure to the frame by means of panel clips and are made from color injected resin so no need to paint. The frame could come in sections that can be bolted/unbolted to allow easy and cheap fixes for those 'off track' moment - the Audi R8 had an entire back end that unbolted so it not unrealistic. Suspension can be upgraded as you develop as a driver, as standard the car could come with SPAX shocks (something that allows for some adjustment but isn't in the Ohlin's league for price) Suspension pick up points developed to match existing road cars so that off the shelf parts can be bought from tuning companies. Instruments could be kept to a minimum i.e. tachometer, furl gauge and temperature gauge no need to go straight to a Stack/PI system.
I really think that it is possible to do something like this The current cars are too expensive for most trackday enthusiasts: the Radical's seem to start from 28k + VAT and the JP1 is around 70k + VAT. The Caterham CSR while a blinding car isn't cheap at 34k.
I know that tooling costs, development costs etc. are all built into car prices but high volume based on lower price rather than low volume and high price would still allow these type of costs to be covered.
Should I duck and run for cover now?? :boxedin: :paperbag:
I'm not talking about a Locost or Westfield but rather a car with the look of an LMP2. So not an open wheeler, but a low front end and a raised rear spoiler, possibly a rear diffuser and front splitter. Something that is track only, has a very good power to weight ratio but for which parts are not prohibitably expensive.
The body parts secure to the frame by means of panel clips and are made from color injected resin so no need to paint. The frame could come in sections that can be bolted/unbolted to allow easy and cheap fixes for those 'off track' moment - the Audi R8 had an entire back end that unbolted so it not unrealistic. Suspension can be upgraded as you develop as a driver, as standard the car could come with SPAX shocks (something that allows for some adjustment but isn't in the Ohlin's league for price) Suspension pick up points developed to match existing road cars so that off the shelf parts can be bought from tuning companies. Instruments could be kept to a minimum i.e. tachometer, furl gauge and temperature gauge no need to go straight to a Stack/PI system.
I really think that it is possible to do something like this The current cars are too expensive for most trackday enthusiasts: the Radical's seem to start from 28k + VAT and the JP1 is around 70k + VAT. The Caterham CSR while a blinding car isn't cheap at 34k.
I know that tooling costs, development costs etc. are all built into car prices but high volume based on lower price rather than low volume and high price would still allow these type of costs to be covered.
Should I duck and run for cover now?? :boxedin: :paperbag:
d_drinks said:
Suspension pick up points developed to match existing road cars so that off the shelf parts can be bought from tuning companies.
well yeah i like the idea but like it or not the market is very limited, i'd love one but im not normal
. at 10-15k theres very little room for profit x not much demand = no one will be bothered to develop it. If lotus wernt going to rip the arse out of the new circuit car it shouldnt cost more than 20k looking at it, but it will. Specifically the prob with your plan to use road car suspension is off what? A small gt like i think you have in mind needs wishbones all round. you're basicly just gonna be redesigning a gt style seven car, namely xtr2, i which case you might aswell just rebody the (ugly/awkward IMO) westfield
Lotus (or should I say, Autocar), are saying £30K for the normally aspirated version and £34-35K for the supercharged car. It looks absolutely stunning in the pics. Nice idea d_drinks. Have a look at an MK Engineering GTR, which I think is pretty much what you're thinking of
[url] www.mkengineering.co.uk [/url]
[url] www.mkengineering.co.uk [/url]
The DJ 27 said:
Lotus (or should I say, Autocar), are saying £30K for the normally aspirated version and £34-35K for the supercharged car. It looks absolutely stunning in the pics. Nice idea d_drinks. Have a look at an MK Engineering GTR, which I think is pretty much what you're thinking of
[url] www.mkengineering.co.uk [/url]
DJ 27 you're pretty much spot on with what you say about MK Engineering. The idea is to build a relatively simple chassis that can be easily broken down for accident damage repair and that has items in common with road cars so items are not all bespoke and therefore more expensive.
Then wrap the lot in a GRP body that looks sexy something like the Radical LMP2 rather than the slightly dodgy looking XTR2. Again make the body work in sections so that you avoid the Lotus 340R scenario where the first cars had a single piece body that was upwards of 10k to replace.
The idea is a simple but beautiful car but that won't break the bank for the average person.
It would be a small market but you have race series such as Britsports as well as track day drivers so their is diversity in the potential demographic.
Just a thought is all, I have drawn up the body work and a very rough mock of the chassis, engine - a pipe dream of if when, maybe, possibly and HOW MUCH??
d_drinks said:
Just a thought is all, I have drawn up the body work and a very rough mock of the chassis, engine - a pipe dream of if when, maybe, possibly and HOW MUCH??
what suspension/brakes/engine have you thought about?
www.gdcars.com/gallery/t70/100004DSC_1204.jpg
mmm
Under £18K factory buid, and build yourself for less than £12K I'd have said mate. There's a couple of things about the MK GTR me and my mate didn't like (hence why we didn't build one), namely the way your engine choices were either a 100bhp Audi motor or a bike unit. We wanted an Audi 1.8T unit, since they're cheap, powerful and tuneable. We costed the car up to about £9K self built, with a nice set of brakes, a bit of engine work and decent suspension. If it's meant to be a pure track car, give it a bit of downforce as well. Don't just make it look like it's got some. Give it a proper flat bottom, proper rear wing/front splitter, and a nice diffuser at the back. Makes the car look a bit more credible as well IMHO
The DJ 27 said:
If it's meant to be a pure track car, give it a bit of downforce as well. Don't just make it look like it's got some. Give it a proper flat bottom, proper rear wing/front splitter, and a nice diffuser at the back. Makes the car look a bit more credible as well IMHO
Have you seen my pencil sketches then??
front splitter with flat floor and large rear diffuser, vented front and rear wheels arches to relieve air pressure. Nice big rear wing etc. As you say make it look like a proper LMP2 car not like it was designed in the dark.
Hi guys - I've been looking around for a similar car, and found this: Turner LMP (www.turner-auto-design.com). Looks great and I'm seriously considering a purchase. I was put off at first with the bike-power thing thinking it was unreliable but its also available with a lot of different types of car engines. The kit is just under £11k.
Theres an article on the site from an EVO test and theres also a test review and some video of the car on Pistonheads somewhere (don't know how to link to it!) I looked at the MK but I was put off with some reports I heard about quality. Also looked at a GTM and an Elise but I want something more track biased.
>> Edited by caigan on Friday 17th June 15:40
Theres an article on the site from an EVO test and theres also a test review and some video of the car on Pistonheads somewhere (don't know how to link to it!) I looked at the MK but I was put off with some reports I heard about quality. Also looked at a GTM and an Elise but I want something more track biased.
>> Edited by caigan on Friday 17th June 15:40
Hi,
If you are after a pure track car then have a look at Global GT lights. 1000cc or 600cc bike engines in a very small and light chassis. Very quick for what they are.
www.globalgtlights.co.uk/
Should be able to get a last season car for your kind of money. Contact Graham and I am sure he will give you more info.
If you are after a pure track car then have a look at Global GT lights. 1000cc or 600cc bike engines in a very small and light chassis. Very quick for what they are.
www.globalgtlights.co.uk/
Should be able to get a last season car for your kind of money. Contact Graham and I am sure he will give you more info.
rustybin said:
We wanted an Audi 1.8T unit, since they're cheap, powerful and tuneable.
Are you still planning on using the Audi 80/100 transaxle? What sort of power/torque do you reckon it would handle?
We would have been using that 'box yes. It's not the strongest thing in the world, but, when we were going to build the car, we decided it didn't matter if a gearbox only lasted one season of trackdays/road driving. You can pick them up for £50, and the plan was always to strip it and do some work/improvements over the winter anyway. We just didn't have the budget to make it work.
D_Drinks, I haven't seen your sketches mate, sounds like you have the same idea as me though!
randy said:
There are plenty of second hand radical for less than 15K.
I've seen the clubsport model for this sort of money but not the SR3. It's not just the chassis but also the looks that I'm thinking of, while the SR3 looks OK it isn't a patch on the LMP2 that they are working on. Also, stack a Radical and they aren't modular in their breakdown for repair.
I do like the Radical's but i'm thinking of something that is much cheaper from the get go not just 3 years after the car was new.......
Incorrigible said:
There seem to be a few of us thinking in a similar way
Anyone got their first chassis prototype done yet ??
I've got a mock up drawing of one, but would need to sit down with an egineering company and work it through on CAD or something to make sure that it worked as it should MK Engineering were mentioned earlier in this thread.
The Radicals do look a bit cheap because they are a cheap car and are made using cheap body moulds. If you want something that resembles an LMP2 car it will be much more money. The best VFM cars around that look really cool are old SR2 cars, I can think of a nearly new Lola SR2 going for about 35K at the moment.
Otherwise maybe you should consider an old prosport LM3000. They can be picked up for about 15K and look like a proper Group-C car, bloody quick too.
Otherwise maybe you should consider an old prosport LM3000. They can be picked up for about 15K and look like a proper Group-C car, bloody quick too.
Theres one of those LMP's in the PH classifieds:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/44189.htm
How do I get a link to work?!
Oh it does work!!!
>> Edited by caigan on Thursday 23 June 00:58
www.pistonheads.com/sales/44189.htm
How do I get a link to work?!
Oh it does work!!!
>> Edited by caigan on Thursday 23 June 00:58
The LMP in the classifieds (spl???) is up for 10k for the chasis and bodywork the engine will take it to the 15k mark. Price wise this is the area i'm taking about, dynamically the car is very good so again what i'm taking about. Body style wise, I think the guys only had their set square that day, sorry but that's my opinion. Wrap the chassis in a curvy body and you'll have closer to the concept of what i'm talking about.
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