Which is the German Grand Prix ??
Discussion
They call something the "European Grand Prix" when Bernie wants to throw onto the calendar a circuit in a European country that's already got one GP. That is, unless he can come up with another excuse to validate it, such as the silly San Marino GP at Imola. (Once they held the "Swiss Grand Prix" in France, for example, which makes sense only because racing has been illegal in Switz. for the last fifty years.)
The classic '93 wet race at Donington was that year's European GP.
The German GP was always held at the 'Ring until 1970, when for that one year the circuit was closed so that it could be made safer (by such drastic measures as Armco replacing hedges). The 1970 event was held at Hockenheim, but in 1971 it returned to the 'Ring.
After Lauda's big shunt in '76, no more GPs were run at the old 'Ring (essentially today's Nordschleife). In the early '80s work was commenced on the modern Nurburgring GP circuit. When construction was completed in '84 the German GP returned to Nurburg.
IIRC, there were now competing interests representing Hockenheim and the Nurburgring. The ADAC was on one side, and I am too lazy to dig out the book that mentions the other. Of course each group wanted to secure the German GP for its own circuit.
Between the two competitors, the Hockenheim group offered Bernie a better commercial deal, which is why the German GP has been held there for the last twenty years.
The 'Ring GP circuit has had a GP regularly since '95, although it has sometimes been called the Luxembourg GP.
There was once a European GP held at Brands Hatch too.
The classic '93 wet race at Donington was that year's European GP.
The German GP was always held at the 'Ring until 1970, when for that one year the circuit was closed so that it could be made safer (by such drastic measures as Armco replacing hedges). The 1970 event was held at Hockenheim, but in 1971 it returned to the 'Ring.
After Lauda's big shunt in '76, no more GPs were run at the old 'Ring (essentially today's Nordschleife). In the early '80s work was commenced on the modern Nurburgring GP circuit. When construction was completed in '84 the German GP returned to Nurburg.
IIRC, there were now competing interests representing Hockenheim and the Nurburgring. The ADAC was on one side, and I am too lazy to dig out the book that mentions the other. Of course each group wanted to secure the German GP for its own circuit.
Between the two competitors, the Hockenheim group offered Bernie a better commercial deal, which is why the German GP has been held there for the last twenty years.
The 'Ring GP circuit has had a GP regularly since '95, although it has sometimes been called the Luxembourg GP.
There was once a European GP held at Brands Hatch too.
The European GP provides a second race in a country where F1 is popular. At the moment Germany has vast numbers of Schumacher fans with money to spend, so they get two GPs.
The Swiss GP at Dijon, France was the same idea - at the time Renault were winning and there were several successful French drivers: Prost, Arnoux, Laffite, Jarier.
The Swiss GP at Dijon, France was the same idea - at the time Renault were winning and there were several successful French drivers: Prost, Arnoux, Laffite, Jarier.
The Swiss banned motor racing after the 'Pierre Levegh' Mercedes crashed into the crowd at Le Mans in 1955. When they ran two GPs in France in 1982 the French GP was at Paul Ricard, the other at Dijon-Prenois which isn't far from the Swiss border - so somebody decided to call it the Swiss GP. I'm sure the Swiss were thrilled. 
I think the last European GP held anywhere but the new Nurburgring was 1994, when it was at Jerez.
I think the last European GP held anywhere but the new Nurburgring was 1994, when it was at Jerez.
The title of European Grand Prix used to be granted to one race in the calendar each year as a sort of extra accolade, without an additional race being involved, going around the various countries in rotation. Then, as Flemke said, it was used as a means of sneaking an extra race into a particular country, eg Germany, when no other dubious means could be used, ie San Marino GP, Swiss GP, Monaco GP (!!).
Can't quite figure that one out, as the FIA had no problem in granting the USA two GPs in a year back in the 80s. They'll be lucky if they have one next year.
Can't quite figure that one out, as the FIA had no problem in granting the USA two GPs in a year back in the 80s. They'll be lucky if they have one next year.
Andrew Noakes said:After donning my anorak, and consulting a reference book:
The Swiss banned motor racing after the 'Pierre Levegh' Mercedes crashed into the crowd at Le Mans in 1955. When they ran two GPs in France in 1982 the French GP was at Paul Ricard, the other at Dijon-Prenois which isn't far from the Swiss border - so somebody decided to call it the Swiss GP. I'm sure the Swiss were thrilled.
I think the last European GP held anywhere but the new Nurburgring was 1994, when it was at Jerez.
European GP at Jerez was in '97, when Michael Scum-maker infamously tried to take out Villeneuve but succeeded only in taking himself out, handing the title to JV.
Before that, European GP was at the 'Ring in '95 and '96.
In '94 there was no European GP. I believe that that was because Bernie had offered a second year of European GP to Tom Wheatcroft (owner of Donington), but the latter ending up declining because he lost so much on the inclement '93 event.
Indeed there was a Jerez European GP in 1997 - I missed that one. There was also a Luxembourg GP that year, at the Nurburgring.
But there was definitely a European GP at Jerez in 1994 - 16 October, round 14 of the championship between the Portuguese and Japanese. MS won in the Benetton.
But there was definitely a European GP at Jerez in 1994 - 16 October, round 14 of the championship between the Portuguese and Japanese. MS won in the Benetton.
trackdemon said:
Where has Hockenhiems famed long straights gone? ... it does not look good to me
Quite. It's just a generic modern Grand Prix circuit now. All the great circuits have at least one bit you can picture in your mind's eye, but the remodelled Hockenheim, to me, has absolutely nothing that stands out.
OK, so while i've got a captive audience of F1 buffs, do any of you know where i can get any DVD's of the Grand Prix's when they were held at the Nordschleif ??
Oh and any old footage of Silverstone would be good too.
I have this weird passion for seeing how things looked 50+ years ago, and dunno why !!
G.
Oh and any old footage of Silverstone would be good too.
I have this weird passion for seeing how things looked 50+ years ago, and dunno why !!
G.
Glenn McMenamin said:
OK, so while i've got a captive audience of F1 buffs, do any of you know where i can get any DVD's of the Grand Prix's when they were held at the Nordschleif ??
Oh and any old footage of Silverstone would be good too.
I have this weird passion for seeing how things looked 50+ years ago, and dunno why !!
G.
Try www.dukevideo.com/products/deptDC1.htm as a start.
Andrew Noakes said:Quite right - my mistake.
But there was definitely a European GP at Jerez in 1994 - 16 October, round 14 of the championship between the Portuguese and Japanese. MS won in the Benetton.
Glenn McM,
There are two short but very sweet clips of practice for the '61 and '67 German GPs on 50 Years of Formula One - On Board. In the first the camera is in Moss's car. In the second Stewart narrates; I can't tell which car is being filmed. These clips give you a sense of how much safer and tamer the 2005 Nordschleife is relative to what it was like before the 1970 revamp.
This superb video also has an interesting film of the Tyrrell six-wheeler. The camera is placed several feet above the driver (Depailler) and the car's forward sheet-metal has been removed so that you can view his hand- and foot-work as well as the movement of the four front tyres. The footage was taken at Monaco.
There is another stand-out clip of Laffite during practice for a Long Beach GP.
Perhaps the most spectacular section is a qualifying lap done by Senna for the '89 Japanese GP at Suzuka. You need to watch it a few times to begin to appreciate the intensity of the experience, which for most normally people would have been - literally - mind-boggling.
One may ask why we the humble punters don't have the opportunity to spend our money on more of this sort of fabulous footage. The answer is the same as that to many questions about Formula One - it's because Bernie owns the rights to it, and he'll let us see it when he feels like it.
This is also the reason, amazingly, why on most TV news broadcasts that cover that day's GP results, we don't get brief bits of that race's action; we only get a worthless still image of the drivers on the podium. That's because most channels are unwilling to pay Bernie's fee for the right to broadcast footage of moving images.
flemke said:
But there was definitely a European GP at Jerez in 1994 - 16 October, round 14 of the championship between the Portuguese and Japanese. MS won in the Benetton.
Quite right - my mistake.
Glenn McM,
There are two short but very sweet clips of practice for the '61 and '67 German GPs on 50 Years of Formula One - On Board. In the first the camera is in Moss's car. In the second Stewart narrates; I can't tell which car is being filmed. These clips give you a sense of how much safer and tamer the 2005 Nordschleife is relative to what it was like before the 1970 revamp.
This superb video also has an interesting film of the Tyrrell six-wheeler. The camera is placed several feet above the driver (Depailler) and the car's forward sheet-metal has been removed so that you can view his hand- and foot-work as well as the movement of the four front tyres. The footage was taken at Monaco.
There is another stand-out clip of Laffite during practice for a Long Beach GP.
Perhaps the most spectacular section is a qualifying lap done by Senna for the '89 Japanese GP at Suzuka. You need to watch it a few times to begin to appreciate the intensity of the experience, which for most normally people would have been - literally - mind-boggling.
One may ask why we the humble punters don't have the opportunity to spend our money on more of this sort of fabulous footage. The answer is the same as that to many questions about Formula One - it's because Bernie owns the rights to it, and he'll let us see it when he feels like it.
This is also the reason, amazingly, why on most TV news broadcasts that cover that day's GP results, we don't get brief bits of that race's action; we only get a worthless still image of the drivers on the podium. That's because most channels are unwilling to pay Bernie's fee for the right to broadcast footage of moving images.
Flemke,
Thanks for that, i already have this DVD, great footage yes, but still too short.
Didn't realise about the right sthing, what an arse this bernie guy is, i think he will be responsible for the sports demise in not too many years to come.
Although i am a car fanatic, i have always thought that F1 is the most boring motor racing you could ever watch, but for some reason, this season seems to be a bit more interesting, possibly due to the fact that Schuey ain't smiling his head off at the end of each race !!!!
G.
Whilst looking for the 50 years... DVD on Amazon, I came across this boxset which may provide some Nordschleife footage as it appears to be coverage of F1 through the '70s. Not cheap though!
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