Track Days Vs Racing?
Discussion
What's your opinion? Why do so many people do track days when they could go racing?
I was party to an interesting discussion in the paddock last week. There seems to be lots of people that have recently come to racing through track days. They were generally of the opinion that if they'd known how much fun racing was they'd have made the switch much earlier.
I was party to an interesting discussion in the paddock last week. There seems to be lots of people that have recently come to racing through track days. They were generally of the opinion that if they'd known how much fun racing was they'd have made the switch much earlier.
Track days are about you and the car and just having fun and honing your driving skills without having to worry about anyone else.
With racing you're worrying about everyone else, track position, overtaking, not being overtaken, possible damage to your car, regulations, scrutineering, etc. Some people just can't be arsed with that or aren't ready for it.
Seems to me that they're completely different kettles of fish.
With racing you're worrying about everyone else, track position, overtaking, not being overtaken, possible damage to your car, regulations, scrutineering, etc. Some people just can't be arsed with that or aren't ready for it.
Seems to me that they're completely different kettles of fish.
Even with the cheapest forms of clubman racing, you're talking about a LOT more money than just doing trackdays. Not to mention the storage/transport/maintenance and a host of other practical issues that you need to consider for a race car.
Been there, done that
How to make a small fortune in motorsport - start off with a large one
Been there, done that
How to make a small fortune in motorsport - start off with a large one
Stig said:
Even with the cheapest forms of clubman racing, you're talking about a LOT more money than just doing trackdays. Not to mention the storage/transport/maintenance and a host of other practical issues that you need to consider for a race car.
Been there, done that
How to make a small fortune in motorsport - start off with a large one
I would agree 100% with Stigs comments, and there is migration from track days to racing, and the opposite, from racing back to track days!! Been there, done that
How to make a small fortune in motorsport - start off with a large one
People start doing track days and then need a little more of a buzz, and start racing. When the electricity bill, the mortgage and all the other day to day overheads aren't being met, because a new set of slicks is more important, then they realise they are in the real world .. MOTOR RACING IS EXPENSIVE!!!
Just remember you could probably attend 5 or 6 track days to 1 race!!
Let Stigs last quote ring in your ears, and nothing can be nearer the truth!!!
How many track dayers have tried racing?
Cost: If you look at some of the exotica getting chucked in the gravel at track days clearly cost is not an issue for many. Particulary when it's compared to some of the junk that gets raced in the 'fun-above-funds' 750 MC classes. Why does it have to be 6 time more expensive? Perception or reality?
Driving Time: "...... and you get SO much more driving time on a Track Day." ... Nurburgring this weekend 4 1/2 hours of track time for £295! In general, for track time go endurance...
Cost: If you look at some of the exotica getting chucked in the gravel at track days clearly cost is not an issue for many. Particulary when it's compared to some of the junk that gets raced in the 'fun-above-funds' 750 MC classes. Why does it have to be 6 time more expensive? Perception or reality?
Driving Time: "...... and you get SO much more driving time on a Track Day." ... Nurburgring this weekend 4 1/2 hours of track time for £295! In general, for track time go endurance...
IMHO Racing is not driving around a circut quickley and smoothly.
It's competition.
And that's a completely different game (1 winner, 29 losers) and a much bigger box of frogs.
Not for those with a nervous disposition.
There needs to be a bit of a 'racer' trying to get out. Otherwise, just enjoy the modern artistry involved in blending the forces ...
It's competition.
And that's a completely different game (1 winner, 29 losers) and a much bigger box of frogs.
Not for those with a nervous disposition.
There needs to be a bit of a 'racer' trying to get out. Otherwise, just enjoy the modern artistry involved in blending the forces ...
There can be no comparison between racing and track days. I used to do only track days and would get bored after around 10 to 15 minutes on track and would generally pack up and go home shortly after lunch. Then you have the track day companies who wet themselves if you put a wheel over a white line and nooooo overtaking unless you are sent a letter in triplicate, filed, lost and then re-sent recorded delivery.
With racing you have the excitement of racing and the boredom of sitting around all day waiting to race. The main downside to racing though is the cost, I think it's akin to rolling up £50 notes and setting them on fire.
One other thing about racing is that in most series you get the social aspect which can make a weekend perfect when you can have a good drink and eat with friends on a Saturday night, you don't get this so much with the track day crowd.
For me though racing has it slightly over track days.
With racing you have the excitement of racing and the boredom of sitting around all day waiting to race. The main downside to racing though is the cost, I think it's akin to rolling up £50 notes and setting them on fire.
One other thing about racing is that in most series you get the social aspect which can make a weekend perfect when you can have a good drink and eat with friends on a Saturday night, you don't get this so much with the track day crowd.
For me though racing has it slightly over track days.
Although they appear similar they are in fact different beasts. it is very rare I go to a trackday and see anyone driving to the level of comitment needed to be half way up a competative grid. There is a mental point you have to push through to commit very hard and focus very hard on the circuit.
Also, beyond simple driving and keeping your car on the track you have to consider the other traffic. Who will overtake anywhere they see a gap,any side, under brakes (on the grass!) You have to be prepared to drive inches from several cars at the limit.
Imagine the differen between waiting for a car in front to allow you past whilst cars queue up behind (trackday) to racing, whereby you comeup behind a slower car to lap, whilst 3 or 4 cars are chasing a few fet from your bumper, you go straight past the back marker on the left, a guy behind goes to the right, someone else behind trys to get a run on you as you pass the back marker, an suddenly you'r 4 abreast and there is a 90mph corner approaching and YOU want to stay in front.
Different mental state, diffent personality.
Also, racing is a very public way of showing your skills. It is easy to go to a trackday in exotica and convince yourself you are very fast becuase of the cars thst let you past. racing will stick a thousand pins into an ego bubble, and some people prefer not to have the bubble burst.
Also, beyond simple driving and keeping your car on the track you have to consider the other traffic. Who will overtake anywhere they see a gap,any side, under brakes (on the grass!) You have to be prepared to drive inches from several cars at the limit.
Imagine the differen between waiting for a car in front to allow you past whilst cars queue up behind (trackday) to racing, whereby you comeup behind a slower car to lap, whilst 3 or 4 cars are chasing a few fet from your bumper, you go straight past the back marker on the left, a guy behind goes to the right, someone else behind trys to get a run on you as you pass the back marker, an suddenly you'r 4 abreast and there is a 90mph corner approaching and YOU want to stay in front.
Different mental state, diffent personality.
Also, racing is a very public way of showing your skills. It is easy to go to a trackday in exotica and convince yourself you are very fast becuase of the cars thst let you past. racing will stick a thousand pins into an ego bubble, and some people prefer not to have the bubble burst.
Edited by wee_skids on Friday 21st September 20:52
wee_skids said:
Different mental state, diffent personality.
Absolutely. 
I love driving and I enjoy the challenge of myself and my car against the track, but I also know myself and I know that I get very distracted by someone right behind me hassling me, whether it be on the road or track. I couldn't cut it as a racing driver, I know that and I can live with it. Racing isn't for me and I get enormous enjoyment from track days.
Horses for courses, I reckon.
If you want bumb in seat racing thats fun and cheap, then there's no comparisson to karting, and if you want to go on the larger car circuits then there's superkarting.
The twin engined superkarts can do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, and go on past 160mph on the longer circuits, with amazing conering. They generally lap about the same pace as Formula 3 cars and on some circuits are the outright lap record holders.
The superkart lap record for example at Laguna Seca is 1:23.875.
Here's a wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superkart
Here's a pic of one in action!
Paul
The twin engined superkarts can do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, and go on past 160mph on the longer circuits, with amazing conering. They generally lap about the same pace as Formula 3 cars and on some circuits are the outright lap record holders.
The superkart lap record for example at Laguna Seca is 1:23.875.
Here's a wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superkart
Here's a pic of one in action!
Paul
Edited by intrepid44 on Friday 21st September 22:19
wee_skids said:
Also, racing is a very public way of showing your skills. It is easy to go to a trackday in exotica and convince yourself you are very fast becuase of the cars thst let you past. racing will stick a thousand pins into an ego bubble, and some people prefer not to have the bubble burst.
That's why plenty of people such as me, who don't give a toss about being "better" than anyone else, will carry on doing trackdays.i love doing track days and i think that i would love racing too but i can see that they are very different things.
i have watched my dad race for many years now and i would really like to experience the excitement of proper racing but it is a lot more scary than a track day.
on a track day you are building towards losing yourself in the car to get a smooth drive that is quick. in racing it is outright where/how/when can i get past this car infront and a very different kettle of fish to track days.
add to that the fact that racing costs an absolute fortune (normally) to run a car that does less than a thousand miles a year and is virtually completely rebuilt every winter.
at some point i think i will try my hand at racing but it will have to be at a time when i feel i can afford to throw the car away if the unthinkable happens and not feel too bad about it.
i have watched my dad race for many years now and i would really like to experience the excitement of proper racing but it is a lot more scary than a track day.
on a track day you are building towards losing yourself in the car to get a smooth drive that is quick. in racing it is outright where/how/when can i get past this car infront and a very different kettle of fish to track days.
add to that the fact that racing costs an absolute fortune (normally) to run a car that does less than a thousand miles a year and is virtually completely rebuilt every winter.
at some point i think i will try my hand at racing but it will have to be at a time when i feel i can afford to throw the car away if the unthinkable happens and not feel too bad about it.
I race in the SR> Challenge...Cobra, E and D Type reps etc. I don't think I spend much more than I would doing track days.
There are 4 power-to-weight classes, so everyone usually gets a race with someone. No '1 winner, 29 losers' scenario. There's a lad that runs a Westfild 11 and regularly make the top places.
There are guys that spend £30k and year on engine rebuilds for their Cobras. They regularly get beaten by folks that run the same 2ltr Zetec or antique 6 pot Jag for 3 years without and rebuild. So the cost is just what you want to make it.... it's not a reason to not go racing.... ditto the superkarts point.
...can't see to point in track days myself. I do agree with the chalk and cheese thing. I not going to bother trying the chalk sandwich... I'm guessing it's not going to be up to much.
There are 4 power-to-weight classes, so everyone usually gets a race with someone. No '1 winner, 29 losers' scenario. There's a lad that runs a Westfild 11 and regularly make the top places.
There are guys that spend £30k and year on engine rebuilds for their Cobras. They regularly get beaten by folks that run the same 2ltr Zetec or antique 6 pot Jag for 3 years without and rebuild. So the cost is just what you want to make it.... it's not a reason to not go racing.... ditto the superkarts point.
...can't see to point in track days myself. I do agree with the chalk and cheese thing. I not going to bother trying the chalk sandwich... I'm guessing it's not going to be up to much.
Andyto said:
I don't think I spend much more than I would doing track days........can't see to point in track days myself. I do agree with the chalk and cheese thing. I not going to bother trying the chalk sandwich... I'm guessing it's not going to be up to much.
So, talking from personal experience about the cost of track days vs racing then? They are very different animals, each with their own pros & cons. Your one-sided "cheese" views aren't going to offer any light on the topic.Jonny
BaT
Andyto said:
What's your opinion? Why do so many people do track days when they could go racing?
I was party to an interesting discussion in the paddock last week. There seems to be lots of people that have recently come to racing through track days. They were generally of the opinion that if they'd known how much fun racing was they'd have made the switch much earlier.
As others have said, racing is a very different discipline and yes for many, competition is a very addictive activity ... but therein lies the rub ... for some, the technical advantage of having the best equipment, fresh tyres and lots of testing etc etc for that "edge" does justify the cost (well at least to them it does - and we all know that although there may be a correlation ... there's also an element of luck in every race).I was party to an interesting discussion in the paddock last week. There seems to be lots of people that have recently come to racing through track days. They were generally of the opinion that if they'd known how much fun racing was they'd have made the switch much earlier.
Trackdays are great but even a regular trackday driver may find the bills toting up with circuit fees, maintenance and replacements parts.
Aside from regular and sensible race maintenance and replacement of parts, I think everyone agrees that competition dramatically increases the risk profile of what can happen if there is a serious racing incident ... and for many ... that's simply a step too far if the car is severely damaged or written off.
Most of the people that I've come across who like this sort of thing would love to try some competition but they cite a pervasive issue ... cost.
So I would say that one of "main" hurdles that many would-be competitors face will be the issue of cost ... although I do not doubt that some racers have been able compete on a very reasonable budget due to the specific series that they compete in, their level of competitiveness, circumstance and not least careful planning.
Now if only we could all find someone who would fund these expensive hobbies ...
Edited by bjc388 on Saturday 22 September 12:00
My motivation for asking the question...
On Cost and the Validity of Track Days: If you've just pulled together the mid-life-crisis-money to buy your dream Aston and you want to drive it fast... go track days. If you want to go cheap racing then an MOT failed XJS with the JEC will do it. There are plenty of others. Cost is not a hurdle to racing.
The main intangable difference must be time and committment. You can do one (or few) track days a year, but one race doesn't make sense. You need to, at least commit to an ARDS test to race... an interesting experience in itself.
Psychologically, racing doesn't suit everyone, but are there people with track day only experience that would get a lot out of racing?
Are there track day drivers that would appreciate some support and an easier route into racing? Does it even occur to folks that racing is an option and how easy it is to get into? Can the race series organisers do more to communicate with track day drivers?
On Cost and the Validity of Track Days: If you've just pulled together the mid-life-crisis-money to buy your dream Aston and you want to drive it fast... go track days. If you want to go cheap racing then an MOT failed XJS with the JEC will do it. There are plenty of others. Cost is not a hurdle to racing.
The main intangable difference must be time and committment. You can do one (or few) track days a year, but one race doesn't make sense. You need to, at least commit to an ARDS test to race... an interesting experience in itself.
Psychologically, racing doesn't suit everyone, but are there people with track day only experience that would get a lot out of racing?
Are there track day drivers that would appreciate some support and an easier route into racing? Does it even occur to folks that racing is an option and how easy it is to get into? Can the race series organisers do more to communicate with track day drivers?
If you want to drive your pride and joy competitively without giving anyone else the chance to trade paint, speed competitions might be the answer. You might think of speed competitions as being similar to race qualifying - you are alone on the course and the objective is to complete it in the shortest possible time. Although you do get very specialist race cars that look as if they've come from an F1 grid, there are also plenty of people who compete in roadgoing classes in cars ranging from run of the mill shopping trolleys to very high performance sports cars. This is one of the few motorsports disciplines where you can drive to the circuit, compete, drive home again in your ordinary road car. I won't pretend it's anything like as intense or exciting as full blooded wheel-to-wheel racing, but it requires very little investment and is easy to get into. If you're into track days you will find speed competitions are a lot more exciting! They're very sociable events, too - you'll get to know the people you're competing against, and if you run into trouble it's completely routine to have all your "arch rivals" get stuck in to help get you back on the track.
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