Track day single seater

[Tim3003]

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying a track day car. I had thought of a Caterham, but I'd really like a 'real' single-seater, so an FF 1600 looks ideal, and cheaper too.

I have a fair idea of the hardware costs (~£5-7k for a reasonable 2nd hand FF1600? + trailor + clothes & helmet), but could use some advice on licences (is one needed for track days?) insurance etc. I am not a mechanic, so would I need to find one to bring along to a track day? What sort of servicing does an infrequently used track day car need?

Also, are there any useful manuals or set-up guides for 80's/90's FF 1600s I could learn the basics from?

Any other start-up advice would be welcome too.

Best wishes,

Tim

[BertBert]

You will struggle with a FF. Almost all track days forbid open wheeled cars. If you are a trackday newbie, I'd suggest something a bit more conventional to start with
Bert

[Tim3003]

Thanks, that's a real pain. Do any circuits run separate test days for single seaters? I mean, if you're taking up racing in Fornula Ford, how do you get to practise? (Not that I am...)

Tim

[F355GTS]

Tim

You can do test days in open wheelers but I beleive you need an MSA Race Licence, I'm not aware of any trackday oeprators who allow/ encourage open wheel cars

[sdd]

Some track day operators will allow open wheelers, I've seen them on RMA and BRDC track days.

You can obviously do test days in open wheelers but you'll need a National B race licence minimum to go on a test day. Even on test days open wheel cars are generally run in different sessions to closed wheel cars.

Stephen

www.track-club.com

[Avoneer]

MK Sprint R.

They're a single seater that a lot of track day organisers allow.

Pat...

[Tim3003]

Thanks all, for info.

It seems the MSA licence is not too hard or expensive to get. But single seater test days are only run at Donnington according to Trackdays.co.uk, and cost £285!

As I do not fancy trolling up to Donnington (from Essex) every time I want to have a spin maybe I should stick to normal track days. In that case, which car is most like a single seater, and affordable - say £10k max? It is not outright performance I'm after, but race-car like handling and responses.

Cheers,
Tim

[norasport]

Back to the Caterham then!! can't beat em!!

[BertBert]

Tim3003 said:

snip... but race-car like handling and responses.
Tim

I am not sure that "race-car like" is a good definition of the track day experience you are seeking. Many race cars are hard to drive and enjoy. On/off power, fast, not very forgiving at the limit? At the other end of the spectrum they might be plain slow!

It might be that you are looking for...

open top/closed?
rear wheel drive? Power oversteer potential?
front wheel drive? Understeer and lift off oversteer potential?
easy to get to the limit and not exceed it?
hard to get to the limit?
very adjustable suspension?
just works out of the box suspension?
runs forever with no maintenance?
needs a complete strip and rebuild each outing (and breaks at every outing)?

Those questions (and maybe others) could narrow it down a bit.

Bert

[Tim3003]

I did one of those track experiences in a Formula First a few years back, so am looking for rwd with that sort of handling/light-weight combination. Ideally reliable and not too hard or expensive to maintain (as I'll have to pay someone else to do that), and with some on-track suspension/brake adjustment potential. Also, needs to be track-worthy rather than road-worthy, I don't want the brakes to melt after a hard lap, nor to roll round the corners on 3 wheels.
Not interested in power slides, just fast neutral handling, progressive with oversteer on the limit I guess. Something that is rewarding to drive, and you can hone your laptimes with practice. Doesnt need to be especially easy to start off with. I'm prepared to learn the techniques. For minimum weight I guess it must be open topped.
Any alternative to a Caterham - with the beefed up brakes and de-dion suspension?

Thanks,
Tim

[Toltec]

Sylva r1ot maybe?

http://www.sylva.co.uk/riotR1.html 
http://www.stingraymotorsport.com/cars.htm 

Nearly got a ride in a zzr1100 engined one at Brands Hatch earlier this year - but they blew the engine on the run before I was due to go out...

[rustybin]

Nearest you are going to get to a single seater feeling has to be a Bike Engine kit Car. Your budget should get you a very nice and very quick one. The thing you won't get for that money is downforce to any real degree or (probably) mid engineyness. Having said that the junior single seater don't have much downforce either. Why not have an ask on the Kit Car forum?

[Maxx]

Tim,

How about something like an Elise S1, pick them up for around £7-8k (loads in classifided). Closer to a single-seater handling than the Caterham types (engine is behind you), light, early ones were about 700k i think, parts are cheap (apart from clam), lots of upgrade potential. Also, you can drive it to the track and back and use it as a summer sportscar.

M.

[BenElliottRacing]

nothing to stop you fitting caterham wheel covers to your formula ford. Donington will allow single saters out on their Trackzone days I beleive. You will however struggle to get the car down to the 98db that their days are run to.

[BertBert]

there is a guy I know (!) in woking who is essentially a race fabricator. He had a couple of older FFs for sale. I think he actually used to build them. I was thinking of buying one as you are. He would also be the one to add the wings needed to make it track day worthy and maybe even some more silencing.

Let me know if you want contact details.

BErt

[BobM]

Practicality aside I'm not sure I'd want a single seater as a trackday car. I suspect it would actually be less fun than a Caterfield or similar. I've driven the Formula Palmer Audi at Bedford as well as the JP1 and although both were stunningly fast I'd rather have my bike engined Fury to drive for fun - it's plenty fast enough and while still being challenging to drive is more fun because it's a bit more progressive around the limit.

I'm sure most on here would agree that although going fast is fun there's more to a good trackday car than pure speed - I got into trackdays with a lightly modified Evo VII but built a bike engined Westfield to give me the involvement I wanted. The fact that the running costs were dramatically less was a bonus.

Another factor is that being in a car that's significantly faster than most of the other cars out there can be frustrating as you never seem to get a clear lap in as you just come up on the other cars so quickly. So I'm told anyway

[custardtart]

If you still want a single seater and get your MSA licence there used to be test days every wednesday at Mallory for £99 but don't know if they still run them?

However, these days are populated by racing drivers involved in serious testing for racing so I'd sugest you go along to one and have a look - it can be a touch intimidating!

[rustybin]

BenElliottRacing said:

nothing to stop you fitting caterham wheel covers to your formula ford. Donington will allow single saters out on their Trackzone days I beleive. You will however struggle to get the car down to the 98db that their days are run to.

You need to be careful what individual organisers specify. They may not feel that some wheel covers are enough. Basically they don't want any problems with their insurance if the worst happens so I would check with organisers first. They have the right to refuse whoever they wish for whatever reason so it could be an expensive debating point.

With regard to silencing, we managed to get a FF2000 down to 98Db static so as to be able to do trackdays with RMA at Bedford. We used a Supertrapp so that you can optimise the level of silencing. You lose a little power but it isn't too bad. Luckily at Spa we didn't need any!

[Tim3003]

Thanks again for the info.

I like the look of the mid-engined Riot type of kit car, but have no experience with kits so I'd be apprehensive about taking one on. Is it viable for a novice like me? I'd be concerned about mechanical blow-ups too with an unknown make.

Re speed, as you say there's no point in doing a track day with a car faster than all the others. I did own an Audi TT, and found it frustrating to have so much power on the road with no chance to use it. (Never dared risk it on a track day though!) I'm not bothered about downforce either, just having a car that handles and is rewarding to drive. I really want something the track day organisers will all accept as-is too. I don't want to faff about with extra silencers and wheel covers.

I think open-topped too. Didnt know you could get Elises that cheap. Will have a look round...

Tim

[LocoBlade]

If you want single seater performance / handling but something that's trackday friendly, have a look at a Clubmans car.

Something like a Mallock from the 80's would fit the bill nicely and can be purchased for under £10k, some with fairly trick Vx red tops etc with significantly more power than a FFord.