why have a cheap trackday car when the day out is so costly
Discussion
when the whole day out costs a fortune!
i had a decent e36 m3 i decided to make into a track car.spent a lot of money getting it right and basically performing how i wanted it too.
i saw the cost of trackdays,say £180,factored in a bit of fuel,bit of food,bit of wear and tear etc.but what i didnt expect was the total cost of the day to be so dear
£180 approx to attend the day,possibly more
£100 fuel,drive there and back and for the day
£20 food,drink,box of fags
£100?? tyre wear if running tracktyres (essential imo as road ones will wear even quicker)
£100?? brake pad/disc wear (i,m running pagid blues,will definately get yellows next time,also have ap discs)
day off work ?? self employed so dont work,dont get any money.
i think thats it
so around £700 for a day out!!!
thats a lot of money by any standards and being honest too much for me
this is in no way a dig at anyone but surely if you can afford that then why are there so many 'cheap' track day cars when it seems that the cost of the car is irrelevant to the days out.
now i know why theres so much exotic material on these days..........
i had a decent e36 m3 i decided to make into a track car.spent a lot of money getting it right and basically performing how i wanted it too.
i saw the cost of trackdays,say £180,factored in a bit of fuel,bit of food,bit of wear and tear etc.but what i didnt expect was the total cost of the day to be so dear
£180 approx to attend the day,possibly more
£100 fuel,drive there and back and for the day
£20 food,drink,box of fags
£100?? tyre wear if running tracktyres (essential imo as road ones will wear even quicker)
£100?? brake pad/disc wear (i,m running pagid blues,will definately get yellows next time,also have ap discs)
day off work ?? self employed so dont work,dont get any money.
i think thats it
so around £700 for a day out!!!
thats a lot of money by any standards and being honest too much for me
this is in no way a dig at anyone but surely if you can afford that then why are there so many 'cheap' track day cars when it seems that the cost of the car is irrelevant to the days out.
now i know why theres so much exotic material on these days..........
A cheap trackday car is usually (although not always) a lightweight and low-powered car. Something like a 205gti, MX5, Mk1 MR2 for example. These cars can make their tyres and brakes last several track days not to mention costing peanuts for the parts anyway. Then the fuel consumption is low too.
Regardinf time off work, I too work for myself so don't get paid for the day -but then I don't go swanning off to the Costa Del Sol for a fortnight every year either, so a day off is a welcome break occasionally. I typically do about three trackdays a year so can't/wont justify a more expensive car for the little track use it gets. The car also doubles up as a weekend toy for better value for money.
However, by far and away the main reason for having a cheap track car is that if I stuff it, I don't go bankrupt. Risk management I think it's called.
Edited to add typical breakdown (no pun intended) of my 205gti.
£95-£180 approx to attend the day.
£80 fuel,drive there and back and for the day
£7.50 food,drink.
£25 tyre wear. Will get several trackdays and plenty of road miles out of a £200 set of Goodyears.
£10 brake pad/disc wear. Standard discs last years. Mintex 1144 pads last about four trackdays plus plenty of road miles.
day off work ?? self employed so dont work,dont get any money - but bloody well need a day off occasionally!
Regardinf time off work, I too work for myself so don't get paid for the day -but then I don't go swanning off to the Costa Del Sol for a fortnight every year either, so a day off is a welcome break occasionally. I typically do about three trackdays a year so can't/wont justify a more expensive car for the little track use it gets. The car also doubles up as a weekend toy for better value for money.
However, by far and away the main reason for having a cheap track car is that if I stuff it, I don't go bankrupt. Risk management I think it's called.
Edited to add typical breakdown (no pun intended) of my 205gti.
£95-£180 approx to attend the day.
£80 fuel,drive there and back and for the day
£7.50 food,drink.
£25 tyre wear. Will get several trackdays and plenty of road miles out of a £200 set of Goodyears.
£10 brake pad/disc wear. Standard discs last years. Mintex 1144 pads last about four trackdays plus plenty of road miles.
day off work ?? self employed so dont work,dont get any money - but bloody well need a day off occasionally!
Edited by groomi on Thursday 28th February 22:17
So you turned your M3 into a trackday car before you had experience of trackdays?!
I think some of your costs are a bit on the high side, including a packet of fags for example. Also not sure on your comment re trackday tyres, as a set of AO48s wont last beyond 3k on the road, let alone on track. Trackday tyres are soft as s
t and wear far quicker than road tyres.
Regardless of that, I'd say in the elise I would pay between £100 - £150 a day (if you avoid the big named TD organisers and go with member clubs), usually a hotel at £50 the night before, £100 in fuel to include there and back. Job done.
Yes, you do scrub a fair amount off the tyres and the brakes, but not to the point I would have to factor that cost in after each TD. To be fair, the elise is lighter than most...
In answer to your question, I equally think you dont want to be spending too much on your trackday car. If it becomes too precious to you then you will cry when riding kerbs.
You often find those in exotica at TD's are driving what in their eyes is a cheap trackday car, its just relative. I dont think there are too many people that want to chuck something that is of high value to them around a circuit, rightly or wrongly.
I think some of your costs are a bit on the high side, including a packet of fags for example. Also not sure on your comment re trackday tyres, as a set of AO48s wont last beyond 3k on the road, let alone on track. Trackday tyres are soft as s
t and wear far quicker than road tyres.Regardless of that, I'd say in the elise I would pay between £100 - £150 a day (if you avoid the big named TD organisers and go with member clubs), usually a hotel at £50 the night before, £100 in fuel to include there and back. Job done.
Yes, you do scrub a fair amount off the tyres and the brakes, but not to the point I would have to factor that cost in after each TD. To be fair, the elise is lighter than most...
In answer to your question, I equally think you dont want to be spending too much on your trackday car. If it becomes too precious to you then you will cry when riding kerbs.
You often find those in exotica at TD's are driving what in their eyes is a cheap trackday car, its just relative. I dont think there are too many people that want to chuck something that is of high value to them around a circuit, rightly or wrongly.
jleroux said:
Shnozz said:
Yes, you do scrub a fair amount off the tyres and the brakes, but not to the point I would have to factor that cost in after each TD.
In other words, "If you don't add up the costs - it's cheap as chips":-)
Jonny
ginettajoe said:
jleroux said:
Shnozz said:
Yes, you do scrub a fair amount off the tyres and the brakes, but not to the point I would have to factor that cost in after each TD.
In other words, "If you don't add up the costs - it's cheap as chips":-)
Jonny
Each to their own though.
People buy `cheap` track cars to try and avoid paying the amounts you do !!
I have a MK2 Golf, lightweight, parts are cheap and readily available, the car being light means its also very econimical even when being thrashed round a track. I get 15+mpg per lap at the ring doing 8.xx min laps.
I run 195/50/15 Toyo 888`s, they are about £60 a tyre, I have had 2 UK trackdays and over 100 laps at the ring out of a set that are still road legal, they have plenty wear left in them and are cheap to replace.
I have 280mm front brakes (the rears seem to last forever), the disks have now done 3,800 track miles and I`m replacing them because they are about £60 a pair so its purely preventative. I run EBC Yellows which after 200+ Miles on track at Bedford only lost 1/3 of the friction material.
MX5`s, Elises and other light cars are all much cheaper to run that your M3.
If the worst happens and we have an incident, its also easier to walk away from a car that cost a few grand rather than 10k +
I have a MK2 Golf, lightweight, parts are cheap and readily available, the car being light means its also very econimical even when being thrashed round a track. I get 15+mpg per lap at the ring doing 8.xx min laps.
I run 195/50/15 Toyo 888`s, they are about £60 a tyre, I have had 2 UK trackdays and over 100 laps at the ring out of a set that are still road legal, they have plenty wear left in them and are cheap to replace.
I have 280mm front brakes (the rears seem to last forever), the disks have now done 3,800 track miles and I`m replacing them because they are about £60 a pair so its purely preventative. I run EBC Yellows which after 200+ Miles on track at Bedford only lost 1/3 of the friction material.
MX5`s, Elises and other light cars are all much cheaper to run that your M3.
If the worst happens and we have an incident, its also easier to walk away from a car that cost a few grand rather than 10k +
I have far less mechanical sympathy for something which owes me less. The BMW, stripped with new shocks, pads, lines, bushes, seats and harnesses currently stands me at just over £900.
With my old toyota the gears were changed as it bounced off the limiter, I never changed the oil, only added more and I never washed it. It did 12 days in 18 months and I broke it for parts last autumn.
I saw a chap spin an E46 M3 CSL into the gravel at donnington, it was mint and he brought it into the pits with destroyed paint and mini dents everywhere. It may be an expensive day out for anyone, but it's a damn sight cheaper when you don't need a respray on your 30 grand BMW.
With my old toyota the gears were changed as it bounced off the limiter, I never changed the oil, only added more and I never washed it. It did 12 days in 18 months and I broke it for parts last autumn.
I saw a chap spin an E46 M3 CSL into the gravel at donnington, it was mint and he brought it into the pits with destroyed paint and mini dents everywhere. It may be an expensive day out for anyone, but it's a damn sight cheaper when you don't need a respray on your 30 grand BMW.
Why have a cheap trackday car? Because it fits your budget?
Some of our regulars drive old 205 Gtis, one bought an old Rover Tomcat off ebay for pennies, some have Carrera GTs.
Who cares? It's what fits your needs and your budget that's important.
What man would turn his nose up at a £500 Capri?
Melindi
www.goldtrack.co.uk
Some of our regulars drive old 205 Gtis, one bought an old Rover Tomcat off ebay for pennies, some have Carrera GTs.
Who cares? It's what fits your needs and your budget that's important.
What man would turn his nose up at a £500 Capri?
Melindi
www.goldtrack.co.uk
my budget for trackdays was always a fair bit less than yours more like
£100 approx to attend the day (1/2 days, evenings or december)
£20-30 fuel,drive there and back and for the day
£5-10 food,drink,
£10-20?? tyre wear (Light low power car on tyres that cost £40 each (yoko A539's))
£5?? brake pad/disc wear (light weight low power car does need uprated brakes to start with and doesn't wear them like a car as heavy as an M3)
To me trackdays are about fun not 100% about outright speed therefore i'll leave both the M3's at home and take the peugeot 205 track car also can get the peugeot sliding around on the limit without worrying about crashing it.
So what cost you around £500 in the M3 i can do for nearer £180ish in a 205 gti and i expect i'll have almost as much fun.
£100 approx to attend the day (1/2 days, evenings or december)
£20-30 fuel,drive there and back and for the day
£5-10 food,drink,
£10-20?? tyre wear (Light low power car on tyres that cost £40 each (yoko A539's))
£5?? brake pad/disc wear (light weight low power car does need uprated brakes to start with and doesn't wear them like a car as heavy as an M3)
To me trackdays are about fun not 100% about outright speed therefore i'll leave both the M3's at home and take the peugeot 205 track car also can get the peugeot sliding around on the limit without worrying about crashing it.
So what cost you around £500 in the M3 i can do for nearer £180ish in a 205 gti and i expect i'll have almost as much fun.
gtdc said:
Why have a cheap trackday car? Because it fits your budget?
Some of our regulars drive old 205 Gtis, one bought an old Rover Tomcat off ebay for pennies, some have Carrera GTs.
Who cares? It's what fits your needs and your budget that's important.
What man would turn his nose up at a £500 Capri?
Blimey, where are you going to get a £500 Capri? The cheapest one on Auto Trader is £1500. And the cheapest non-dodgy looking 2.8 is £1900.Some of our regulars drive old 205 Gtis, one bought an old Rover Tomcat off ebay for pennies, some have Carrera GTs.
Who cares? It's what fits your needs and your budget that's important.
What man would turn his nose up at a £500 Capri?
Just sold the Exige, last track day cost £30 fuel there and back, £120 ish for the day and £30 for driving instruction. £220 insurance (gives you peace of mind). As the cars designed to be taken from home to track and back, there were no new brake pads needed and tyres still had good amount of depth, no need to replace either. ~£400.
Now the Exige has gone am definately considering a cheaper track day car to run out with a friend who has recently brought one, budget circa £500-£1000 if anyone knows where to find a good one.
Now the Exige has gone am definately considering a cheaper track day car to run out with a friend who has recently brought one, budget circa £500-£1000 if anyone knows where to find a good one.
a set of A048R tyres for an exige are ~£500 and will last an absolute maximum of 10 days. A set of pagid RS14's likewise at ~£200. That's £70 per track day in tyres and pads alone.
not needing to replace the tyres or pads is not the same as there not being a cost associated. if you're only doing a couple of days a year then I guess you can bury your head in the sand re: running costs. When you're doing 80+ track days a year with 7 track day cars you need to keep a closer eye on what things are costing you!
If you don't factor in insurance/risk & depreciation then running your own car WILL be cheaper than renting the same car. however, if you're doing less than a dozen track days a year in a non-road legal car then it will, without doubt, be cheaper to rent that same car.
i'm sure Stephen (track-club) will have as many spreadsheets as I have on this subject - they make interesting reading for anyone going through the dilemma of renting vs. buying.
we used to run a couple of 205GTi's as track day hire cars - they were costing almost double what the caterhams cost to run over the course of year (crash damage, engine rebuild and finance costs aside!).
Jonny
BaT
not needing to replace the tyres or pads is not the same as there not being a cost associated. if you're only doing a couple of days a year then I guess you can bury your head in the sand re: running costs. When you're doing 80+ track days a year with 7 track day cars you need to keep a closer eye on what things are costing you!
If you don't factor in insurance/risk & depreciation then running your own car WILL be cheaper than renting the same car. however, if you're doing less than a dozen track days a year in a non-road legal car then it will, without doubt, be cheaper to rent that same car.
i'm sure Stephen (track-club) will have as many spreadsheets as I have on this subject - they make interesting reading for anyone going through the dilemma of renting vs. buying.
we used to run a couple of 205GTi's as track day hire cars - they were costing almost double what the caterhams cost to run over the course of year (crash damage, engine rebuild and finance costs aside!).
Jonny
BaT
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