Trackday Tuition
Discussion
Following on form the 'Off Topic Drift' on another thread, I thought I would start this one.
I usually do take a session of tuition on most trackdays; as an 'extra' cost I would much rather spend £20-£30 on tuition than a similar amount on photographs.
Sometimes the tuition is great, other times I feel I get little out of it (all instructors
and their clients are different!!).
I will say that the only times that I have spun is whilst under instruction.
I usually do take a session of tuition on most trackdays; as an 'extra' cost I would much rather spend £20-£30 on tuition than a similar amount on photographs.
Sometimes the tuition is great, other times I feel I get little out of it (all instructors
and their clients are different!!).
I will say that the only times that I have spun is whilst under instruction.
Tuition in 20min slots is not the best way to do it really, IMO... I find 1 hour is the minimum that works properly. 15/20 min on track, 15 min in pits talking over and another 15/20 min on track followed by a de brief. Obviously having a half or full day is always going to be best, but some can't stretch the budget...
There are lots of general instructors around, who might not be that good, its pot luck on most events. That is probably why you find you gain more from one instructor to the next.
You get what you pay for at the end of the day, like most things
There are lots of general instructors around, who might not be that good, its pot luck on most events. That is probably why you find you gain more from one instructor to the next.
You get what you pay for at the end of the day, like most things
I always take tuition at track days usually two sessions and it is always worthwhile in my view.
However, I do agree that the 15/20/30 minute slots are not really long enough. Once I booked a whole day of tuition and that was absolutely brilliant and it only cost £200 which I thought was incredible value for money.
However, I do agree that the 15/20/30 minute slots are not really long enough. Once I booked a whole day of tuition and that was absolutely brilliant and it only cost £200 which I thought was incredible value for money.
"You get what you pay for at the end of the day, like most things"
Actually, not always true. I recently had a 30 min orientation with a young instructor and a 30 min tuition with an experienced champion costing twice as much... The former was brilliant, he communicated well, giving a few precise comments and then letting me get on with it. The champion was terrible: complete lack of communication skills, shouting throughout the session, reaching across and trying to correct the amount of lock while I was driving, etc. In fact he was so bad, I could not wait for the session to end! The moral of the story is that being good at something yourself is one thing, being able to teach others though is another!
Actually, not always true. I recently had a 30 min orientation with a young instructor and a 30 min tuition with an experienced champion costing twice as much... The former was brilliant, he communicated well, giving a few precise comments and then letting me get on with it. The champion was terrible: complete lack of communication skills, shouting throughout the session, reaching across and trying to correct the amount of lock while I was driving, etc. In fact he was so bad, I could not wait for the session to end! The moral of the story is that being good at something yourself is one thing, being able to teach others though is another!
Scarpia said:
The moral of the story is that being good at something yourself is one thing, being able to teach
others though is another!
Agree with that 100%. Some of the best instructors we've used have never raced in their lives. Equally, some of best racers we've used as instructors have been hopeless.others though is another!
Unfortunately, insurance and liability restrictions mean we can only use ARDS instructors nowadays. A bit of a shame in my opinion though I understand entirely why it's like that. For a novice track day driver you need to be able to communicate the fundamentals in a clear and concise manner. Shaving the last few tenths is saved for race craft and test days.
There's a few instructors doing the rounds who pimp themselves out for 1-2-1 driver training on track days who are NOT ARDS registered. A couple of them are amongst the best tutors out there in my opinion - I wish I could employ them.
Jonny
BaT
jleroux said:
Scarpia said:
The moral of the story is that being good at something yourself is one thing, being able to teach
others though is another!
Agree with that 100%. Some of the best instructors we've used have never raced in their lives. Equally, some of best racers we've used as instructors have been hopeless.others though is another!
Unfortunately, insurance and liability restrictions mean we can only use ARDS instructors nowadays. A bit of a shame in my opinion though I understand entirely why it's like that. For a novice track day driver you need to be able to communicate the fundamentals in a clear and concise manner. Shaving the last few tenths is saved for race craft and test days.
There's a few instructors doing the rounds who pimp themselves out for 1-2-1 driver training on track days who are NOT ARDS registered. A couple of them are amongst the best tutors out there in my opinion - I wish I could employ them.
Jonny
BaT
Elderly said:
I will say that the only times that I have spun is whilst under instruction.
I guess it comes about because the Instructor is encouraging the trainee to push harder and deeper than the trainee would ordinarily dare - of course when someone passes the point of no return for their skill level then the laws of physics will have it's way ... 
lee69 said:
I had intruction in the past, it can be great with a good instructor.
Ask them there experience in racing and with similar cars to yours before you choose the instructor and try and use ARDS quailified
Unfortunately it's not a guarantee. The ARDS instructor I had on the Stowe circuit for my ARDS test a few years ago was terrible. I guess he could probably drive, but he was crap at instructing! Mind you, my experience is that is the minority fortunately.Ask them there experience in racing and with similar cars to yours before you choose the instructor and try and use ARDS quailified
Bert
I've had a few of the 1 session instructors & been a tad frustrating & never really felt I gained much from it, brake later is about all ive been told- end result fecked brakes! as I said mr instructor ive not got £2ks worth of brakes on!
For complete novices or numpties it may work well but not found it too worthwhile presonally, having experienced racer or experineced trackdayer mates sat alongside ive found far more rewarding.
I reckon a full day with someone well recommended is whats needed really, but I've known folks have the not getting on with the instructor's style thing on a full day before too so its not always clear cut & the style that suits one may not suit another.
For complete novices or numpties it may work well but not found it too worthwhile presonally, having experienced racer or experineced trackdayer mates sat alongside ive found far more rewarding.
I reckon a full day with someone well recommended is whats needed really, but I've known folks have the not getting on with the instructor's style thing on a full day before too so its not always clear cut & the style that suits one may not suit another.
It's like anything in life that warrants instruction.
You get good teachers and bad teachers, teachers who know their subject and those that bluff their way through.
Qualifications don't always mean a lot, but you have to have standards and ARDS is one of the few recognised standards in this industry (arguably better than just having a competition license or just the desire to be an instructor without any practical experience at a school or circuit).
Usually, it's a personality clash which causes the problems. If you can get on with someone, gain their trust and they like you, then they'll respond better to instruction. You may not be as experienced as the instructor in the car behind who's shouting and grabbing the wheel, but your approach will give your driver more confidence and they'll feel better and more positive about the experience. Ultimately, you will be seen as a 'better' instructor and will probably get better results.
I wouldn't necessarily agree that the more you pay the better the instruction you'll get. Professional drivers will naturally command much higher fees than jobbing instructors, but it still comes down to how well you get on with them.
If you really don't gel with an instructor after 30 minutes, you'll be better off getting your money back or switching to another than persevering with it.
Think back to the teacher you hated most at school. How much did you learn?
You get good teachers and bad teachers, teachers who know their subject and those that bluff their way through.
Qualifications don't always mean a lot, but you have to have standards and ARDS is one of the few recognised standards in this industry (arguably better than just having a competition license or just the desire to be an instructor without any practical experience at a school or circuit).
Usually, it's a personality clash which causes the problems. If you can get on with someone, gain their trust and they like you, then they'll respond better to instruction. You may not be as experienced as the instructor in the car behind who's shouting and grabbing the wheel, but your approach will give your driver more confidence and they'll feel better and more positive about the experience. Ultimately, you will be seen as a 'better' instructor and will probably get better results.
I wouldn't necessarily agree that the more you pay the better the instruction you'll get. Professional drivers will naturally command much higher fees than jobbing instructors, but it still comes down to how well you get on with them.
If you really don't gel with an instructor after 30 minutes, you'll be better off getting your money back or switching to another than persevering with it.
Think back to the teacher you hated most at school. How much did you learn?
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