How many people actually heel and toe?

[Chris71]

...in amateur racing or track days (or for that matter fast road)?

I'd love to be able to do this, but never able to get the precision with the brake pedal, while simultaneously blipping the throttle (end up stabbing the brake violently as I blip the throttle ) Am I just crap or do other people cheat as well, and if so what do you do?

[Don]

Practice makes perfect. I do it all the while.

I practice on the road, too. Whilst not necessary it can be used to produce a chauffeur smooth downchange that passengers will appreciate. It doesn't require one to be braking at the limit of adhesion to be beneficial.

[mmm-five]

I do it all the time on the M5 as it is easy. The Z4 requires a different positioning of the foot and I'm finding it awkward to adjust and then it's too late and I just stamp on the brakes before I fly over the roundabout.

[Chris71]

Granted, pedal positioning is critical. I could just about do it when I had my Eunos with pedal extensions (crudely, with a good chance of snatching the brakes too hard), but I'm not sure the pedal positioning on the TVR even makes it possible.

To clarify, you tend to brake with the toe (well, ball) of your foot, then pivot it about that point to blip the throttle with your heel? Doesn't sound that difficult, but by god it is.

One of those things I can't ever imagine being able to do properly. Wondered if people cheated by coiming off the brakes to downchange or just leaving it to the synchromesh (appreciate the latter is not to be recommended with heavy engine braking)?

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 21st January 13:35

[fergus]

Chris71 said:

Granted, pedal positioning is critical. I could just about do it when I had my Eunos (crudely, with a good chance of snatching the brakes too hard), but I'm not sure the pedal positioning on the TVR even makes it possible.

To clarify, you tend to brake with the toe (well, ball) of your foot, then pivot it about that point to blip the throttle with your heel? Doesn't sound that difficult, but by god it is.

One of those things I can't ever imagine being able to do properly. Wondered if people cheated by coiming off the brakes to downchange or just leaving it to the synchromesh (appreciate the latter is not to be recommended with heavy engine braking!)

depends upon the pedal box layout and the relative heights of the pedals. I use the side of my foot, rather than a pure 'heel and toe' method. See if you can watch some in car footwell shots of the group B rally guys (there tends to be a lot of footwell footage around for some reason) and you'll see how the style has evolved from the mainly 1950's true heel and toe technique.

[Herman Toothrot]

In the MR2 its almost impossible not to.

[brum]

My audi is a joy to H&T as the pedals are absolutely perfectly spaced and at just the right height relative to each other. I basically 'split' my right foot down the middle - left side for breaking, and roll the right side onto the throttle for blipping.

The Puma i currently have is virtually impossible to H&T in - which is a shame as it's my 'hoon' car.

[youngsyr]

I try but suffer from blipping the brake pedal at the same time as blipping the throttle. On the track it's a bit easier as when you're on full brakes the pedals are pretty well aligned, but if I ever used full brakes on the road I think my passengers would be suing me for whiplash!

[pikeyboy]

I do it all the time even in my n reg micra wear work boots....

[anonymous-user]

Yes - like someone above said it helps to practise, I now do it all the time without even thinking. Although it does depend on the car. I find modern cars make it very difficult to do. Over servo'd brakes and funny pedal positions make it nigh on impossible in some of the euro stboxes around at the moment.

I first learned how to do it properly in my old 205, inevitably at the beginning you'll either stamp too hard on the brakes or just get the revs completely wrong, but stick at it and it will become second nature. My eunos is perfect for it, and so was my old 172.

I can't do it in my GF's 206 however, as the throttle pedal is miles away from the brake and significantly lower, so I can't get my heel far enough across and down to the accelerator pedal without compromising the braking. So I don't bother.

You can practise blipping on the downshifts without braking if you're braking uphill. Kind of half a 'heel and toe' - perhaps just the 'heel' bit :lol: but you can at least match revs when approaching an uphill junction without worrying about braking as well.

[trackdemon]

Absolutey! Its just about the only bit of pleasure we're legally allowed whilst driving....

[Chris71]

Mac. said:

You can practise blipping on the downshifts without braking if you're braking uphill. Kind of half a 'heel and toe' - perhaps just the 'heel' bit :lol: but you can at least match revs when approaching an uphill junction without worrying about braking as well.

That sounds like an idea - less likely to get rear ended that way!

[onemorelap]

Started practicing the "art" about one year after passing my test.

Quickly became second nature and after twenty years of driving still use it all the time for road and track driving.

Now if you were asking about left foot braking, there's something best left for practicing on the track

[screwloose]

I do it. Although, I would say pedal spacing plays a large part with some car's lending themselves to it more easily than others.

[shorts!]

I do it on track and to some extent on road. Like Fergus I'll use the toe on the brake but roll the outside edge of my foot onto the accelerator. this feels much more do-able than twisting my heel far enough around. Also with floor hinged pedals 'blipping' with the heel probably wouldn't work too well. How easy you find it will depend on the spacing between the pedals and the relative height of them when the brake is depressed, also the throttle response (which hopefully is pretty quick in your car). I have driven a number of cars where I find myself automatically doing it but the throttle response is so slow that it doesn't have any meaningful affect.
As others have said the more you practise the easier it gets.

[danwebster]

I don't ever not do it, if you see what I mean. My daily drive for a year or so had a dog engagement gearbox so I got into the habit of DDC'ing as well and do that 98% of the time without thinking.

[drjhill]

I started doing it in my track car and now practice on the road to keep my hand, er, foot in. Wish I'd learned years ago and will make the kids learn.

Like the OP I thought "I'm never going to get this" but found it easier on track (big fast car, trackday pads & heat) means the brake pedal is a more stable platform to blip from

My runabout has crap pedals, revs v slowly and not so easy pottering round town. Keep at it

[trombonist]

Strangely, I never did master the art of heal and toeing in my old Elise, but I'm able to do it at will in the Boxster. On the other hand, trying it in my girlfriends R56 Mini Cooper S tends to result in me standing it on its nose!

See link below for someone who was really quite good at it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-zbfdPfRg

[Simon Mason]

Its a small benefit in FWD car but is essential in RWD car IF you want to be as fast as the car can be and safe. There are some very fast FWD racers/prestegious champions infact who CAN'T do it but there are NO genuinely fast RWD boys that can't.

So you can take out of that what you will.

For your average bit of track driving its only really about confidence, specially in the wet so I would suggest learning it for that reason. Besides done properly it sounds so much better barreling into a corner with a big... Wapaaaaaaaaa

[Chris71]

trombonist said:

Strangely, I never did master the art of heal and toeing in my old Elise, but I'm able to do it at will in the Boxster. On the other hand, trying it in my girlfriends R56 Mini Cooper S tends to result in me standing it on its nose!

See link below for someone who was really quite good at it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-zbfdPfRg

It was watching that very video that prompted me to ask.

Not too worried about driving quicker, but it looks so much more elegant and I suppose some time in the future I might have a go at competition (technically already have, but that only had two pedals!)