Advice on a nice dilemma - track vs road
Discussion
Has anyone got any advice on the costs involved in running a track car + a sensible road car vs a fast road car ?
I want to do a lot more track days (At least 1 a month) and can't decide if I should just get something that will do for the road as well.
Cars I like for track : Caterham ; Lotus Exige plus something sensible or
for road / track : Honda Civic Type R (new) ; Clio 197 ; Mini C S Works ; Z4 coupe ; Honda S2000
Budget is about the 17k mark - quite happy to go cheaper thou' !!
I guess I am really interested in the true cost of track days and then I will have to make a decision.....
Thanks !
I want to do a lot more track days (At least 1 a month) and can't decide if I should just get something that will do for the road as well.
Cars I like for track : Caterham ; Lotus Exige plus something sensible or
for road / track : Honda Civic Type R (new) ; Clio 197 ; Mini C S Works ; Z4 coupe ; Honda S2000
Budget is about the 17k mark - quite happy to go cheaper thou' !!
I guess I am really interested in the true cost of track days and then I will have to make a decision.....
Thanks !
Obviously it ultumately has to be your personal decision, but if I was in your position I would be looking at getting a dedicated track car. The road/track cars you mention would be fine on track, but 12 trackdays a year would be quite a lot of punishment, which I think a lighter and simpler car (eg a kit car or elise/exige) would take better.
Cost can be very variable depending on cars and driving style, but I think you would find a significant difference in costs between a kit car and any of the other cars you mentioned simply because the others weigh roughly twice what the kit car weighs and subsequently get through tyres and brakes much quicker than a kit car, and those parts are likely to cost more for the heavier cars too!
Cost can be very variable depending on cars and driving style, but I think you would find a significant difference in costs between a kit car and any of the other cars you mentioned simply because the others weigh roughly twice what the kit car weighs and subsequently get through tyres and brakes much quicker than a kit car, and those parts are likely to cost more for the heavier cars too!
Yep, nice dilemma.
My opinion too, is go for a track dedicated car and separate car for the road.
Firstly, you won't 'spoil' a nice road car.
Second, your track dedicated car will give you a much more rewarding drive, because of the lack of compromise and focus, and development opportunity.
My opinion too, is go for a track dedicated car and separate car for the road.
Firstly, you won't 'spoil' a nice road car.
Second, your track dedicated car will give you a much more rewarding drive, because of the lack of compromise and focus, and development opportunity.
I'd agree with those comments, if you get a car for both it will be compomised when you use it on track - perhaps not an issue for a one off event but once a month would drive you crackers knowing you could be driving something faster/more suitable/more fun/cheaper on brakes and tyres etc.
How much do you want to use it on the road? If it's just a quick dry-weather blast on good roads on a sunny Sunday afternoon anything with a number plate will do, surely?
I'm quite new to this, so I'll bow to any superior knowledge, but it strikes me that you could get a pretty hardcore Caterfield for that sort of budget which will be faster than 99% of things out there and then, at the end of the session, you just twiddle the adjuster on the dampers down a few clicks and drive it home.
For the minimal cost of getting a specialist car on the road (on limited mileage insurance, cheap road tax etc.) it's hard to see why you wouldn't bother.
I'm quite new to this, so I'll bow to any superior knowledge, but it strikes me that you could get a pretty hardcore Caterfield for that sort of budget which will be faster than 99% of things out there and then, at the end of the session, you just twiddle the adjuster on the dampers down a few clicks and drive it home.
For the minimal cost of getting a specialist car on the road (on limited mileage insurance, cheap road tax etc.) it's hard to see why you wouldn't bother.
I'd have thought a descent Caterham-like kit would be the best bet. Zero kits from Great British Sports cars are cheap to buy and I suspect would be ideal. If you wanted you could keep it road legal or get a trailer.
Either that or look at buying an ex track/race car of suitable type.
Either that or look at buying an ex track/race car of suitable type.
A Zero kit? - behave.
Get a Caterham and a 'normal' car.
Costs of ownership to include servicing and consumables is minimal compared to most and a Caterham (even with 135bhp) will be MUCH more fun than anything else for the money. If budget and experience allow go for an R300/R400 wear a permanent grin.
Perfectly useable on the road too - comfy (yup indeed) even for long journeys as long as you have a windscrren!
Get a Caterham and a 'normal' car.
Costs of ownership to include servicing and consumables is minimal compared to most and a Caterham (even with 135bhp) will be MUCH more fun than anything else for the money. If budget and experience allow go for an R300/R400 wear a permanent grin.
Perfectly useable on the road too - comfy (yup indeed) even for long journeys as long as you have a windscrren!
thequietone said:
A Zero kit? - behave.
Has this thread escaped from the GG? 
Personally I can only speak for Caterham and Westfield, but I found the 'clone' was so close to the original I'd find it hard to justify the 2:1 price premium you seem to pay for the Caterham badge. Certainly in the 750MC Championship the Sylva derivatives have been the ones to have and there's nothing to stop you going in with a Caterham.
Ironically the last Caterham I drove was being looked after by an ex Caterham employee who was in the process of building one of the kit car clones.
But yes, going back to the original topic, it might not be a practical everyday proposition, but I can't see why you wouldn't use a Locaterfield on the road as well as the track. Ditto virtually any other track-going sports car.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 18th May 11:19
All depends on what your road car has to do. Other half? kids? Tip runs? Family taxi service?
Generally speaking fast road cars that are family/tip run/taxi service friendly are heavy on consumables when you put them near a track.
I've had a Lotus Elise since 2000 which was my compromise road/trackday car as I didn't have (and still dont have) family to ship around and it does a decent job on track for not much money. I was doing 1-2 trackdays a month at my peak participation. For me there is no better compromise road/trackday car for the money.
I've still got the Elise but don't do many trackdays now. My "fast road" car is now an Evo 7 FQ300. It's a quick car and very capable but it's not a trackday car. Too heavy, too much wear and tear on the consumables. I hire a Caterham for the odd trackdays I do.
Generally speaking fast road cars that are family/tip run/taxi service friendly are heavy on consumables when you put them near a track.
I've had a Lotus Elise since 2000 which was my compromise road/trackday car as I didn't have (and still dont have) family to ship around and it does a decent job on track for not much money. I was doing 1-2 trackdays a month at my peak participation. For me there is no better compromise road/trackday car for the money.
I've still got the Elise but don't do many trackdays now. My "fast road" car is now an Evo 7 FQ300. It's a quick car and very capable but it's not a trackday car. Too heavy, too much wear and tear on the consumables. I hire a Caterham for the odd trackdays I do.
Edited by mattdaniels on Monday 18th May 11:31
Caterham would be a good choice and then run a bout
Elise is also good, but nothing like the speed of the caterham.
Went to spa last month, and the caterhams from book a track were just awsome, my Elise felt like a milk float (or tho a fun milk float!) compared.
Elise is good if you need to drive a bit further to the track, and then you enjoy the drive to the track, the track and the drive home.....
Enjoy!
Elise is also good, but nothing like the speed of the caterham.
Went to spa last month, and the caterhams from book a track were just awsome, my Elise felt like a milk float (or tho a fun milk float!) compared.
Elise is good if you need to drive a bit further to the track, and then you enjoy the drive to the track, the track and the drive home.....
Enjoy!
If your looking to do trackdays at least once a month, you should definatley consider going racing. You can't compare the thrill from racing to that of just driving quickly round a track and most championships have their rounds spaced either 3 or 4 weeks from each other. 17k will go quite along way in club racing, even if you choose to do 'arrive and drive' with a team.
I used to drive my Striker (Seven style kit-car) to and from track days, but found it a complete pita to be honest! The car is great for blasting down b-roads on a nice sunny day, but trawling down a motorway late in the evening on the way home from a track in the pissing rain isn't much fun.
Decided I needed a trailer, but couldn't warrant a 3rd car to tow it with and didn't want a completely dull daily driver either. Ended up with a Legacy GTB to do both jobs, good compromise for me as it's quick, comfortable, handles well enough for a big bus and can tow the Striker without breaking a sweat (it'll drink a bit of fuel then though...)
If you really want to drive to and from the circuit then I think an Elise is a better bet than a Caterfield.
Decided I needed a trailer, but couldn't warrant a 3rd car to tow it with and didn't want a completely dull daily driver either. Ended up with a Legacy GTB to do both jobs, good compromise for me as it's quick, comfortable, handles well enough for a big bus and can tow the Striker without breaking a sweat (it'll drink a bit of fuel then though...)
If you really want to drive to and from the circuit then I think an Elise is a better bet than a Caterfield.
This would be my choice if I was just enjoying track stuff....
Even 320d would be ample (Not sure for towing , but sure it would be good...)
Caterham superlight will keep up with most non racing cars on the track even exotic stuff no problem.
Plus I guess you will not have to bother will making it road legal....
Even 320d would be ample (Not sure for towing , but sure it would be good...)
Caterham superlight will keep up with most non racing cars on the track even exotic stuff no problem.
Plus I guess you will not have to bother will making it road legal....
RMac said:
my advice would be to get a caterham superlight and an 8 year old 330d to tow it around with.
Very cheap running costs for both vehicles, within your budget and best of both worlds.
Cars suitable for every scenario just don't really exist.
Very cheap running costs for both vehicles, within your budget and best of both worlds.
Cars suitable for every scenario just don't really exist.
Thanks everyone for all of the great feedback - it's the first time I have done a 'post',
so really appreciate all of the comments.
I think I will go down the dedicated car route, probably a Caterham.
I am going to book a trackday and hire one as well to get the full experience,
and decide what to buy after that.
Cheers all !
so really appreciate all of the comments.
I think I will go down the dedicated car route, probably a Caterham.
I am going to book a trackday and hire one as well to get the full experience,
and decide what to buy after that.
Cheers all !
have a word with Jonny at bookatrack.com to get a taste of a caterham on track. I heard a rumour he may even be parting with one of his fleet which would be ideal for a dedicated track car.
Last year I sold my 330d sport touring (tow barge and family car) and an r300 spec superlight race car with brian james trailer for a sum total of under £18k. It was a great package and both cars were really cheap to run by comparison to a road/track car.
As another poster has said, a lower power tow barge will do the job too, my first two tow barges were pug 306 diesels with 90 bhp. They did the job well enough. I upgraded to the 330 as I started doing euro towing trips and in the bm I could just stick cruise on at xxxmph all the way to the ring and hills didn't bother it.
I am quite fortunate these days that I need a van for work so that is my current tow barge and I have a seperate every dayer too.
There is a thread in general gassing about the 'value' of caterhams at the moment which you may have seen but seriously, as a proper track car, they really are fabulous. The only alternative I would consider is a lotus 211 but I would need twice the budget for that and I am still not convinced it would be more fun!
imho - caterhams are pretty much untoucheable for fun / running costs and a 120bhp one is ample.
Have fun.
Cheers
Last year I sold my 330d sport touring (tow barge and family car) and an r300 spec superlight race car with brian james trailer for a sum total of under £18k. It was a great package and both cars were really cheap to run by comparison to a road/track car.
As another poster has said, a lower power tow barge will do the job too, my first two tow barges were pug 306 diesels with 90 bhp. They did the job well enough. I upgraded to the 330 as I started doing euro towing trips and in the bm I could just stick cruise on at xxxmph all the way to the ring and hills didn't bother it.
I am quite fortunate these days that I need a van for work so that is my current tow barge and I have a seperate every dayer too.
There is a thread in general gassing about the 'value' of caterhams at the moment which you may have seen but seriously, as a proper track car, they really are fabulous. The only alternative I would consider is a lotus 211 but I would need twice the budget for that and I am still not convinced it would be more fun!
imho - caterhams are pretty much untoucheable for fun / running costs and a 120bhp one is ample.
Have fun.
Cheers
rthomp25 said:
Has anyone got any advice on the costs involved in running a track car + a sensible road car vs a fast road car ?
I want to do a lot more track days (At least 1 a month) and can't decide if I should just get something that will do for the road as well.
Cars I like for track : Caterham ; Lotus Exige plus something sensible or
for road / track : Honda Civic Type R (new) ; Clio 197 ; Mini C S Works ; Z4 coupe ; Honda S2000
Budget is about the 17k mark - quite happy to go cheaper thou' !!
I guess I am really interested in the true cost of track days and then I will have to make a decision.....
Thanks !
The most cost effective combo if you're doing a lot of track days is a track only car like a 7 or an old Radical, a trailer and a cheap, economical and reliable tow car. The track car will literally only cost you maintenance and fuel. For consumables they're light on just about everything 'cos they're light. I want to do a lot more track days (At least 1 a month) and can't decide if I should just get something that will do for the road as well.
Cars I like for track : Caterham ; Lotus Exige plus something sensible or
for road / track : Honda Civic Type R (new) ; Clio 197 ; Mini C S Works ; Z4 coupe ; Honda S2000
Budget is about the 17k mark - quite happy to go cheaper thou' !!
I guess I am really interested in the true cost of track days and then I will have to make a decision.....
Thanks !
For towing and real world driving, look at a Mundano or a dismal of some decription. An estate would be better if you get a trailer without a tyre rack so you can stash jerries, wheels and tools in the back no trouble. A big hatch will work as well with the back seats down or a small off-roader (thinking Freeloader, X-Trail, that sort of thing). A saloon will be less practical for carrying lots of gear obviously.
However this option is a lot of effort. Storage of car/trailer/wheels/stuff, car shuffling, and track cars tend to be quite high maintenance. But you will get the best bang-per-buck on track and should the worst happen and you bin it/blow it up, you load it up on your trailer and wheel it home to deal with as and when. Not something you can do with an on-road track toy and fairly catastrophic if it's your only car.
The next option is a track oriented toy and a fun road car. This involves two sets of tax/MOT/insurance/breakdown. Thinking Elise derivative or a milder 7 and something else for the road. You really only have the problem above so you make sure you have good breakdown that'll pickup from a circuit, or friends with a big trailer. Otherwise it's probably the most convenient option, but also the most expensive.
Finally there's the one car fits all. Usually practicality = weight so consumables will be pricey. But if you're prepared to put up with something like a Mk3 Mr2 for example, that can work out very cheap. You have the risk of binnage, and it's not very quick. But it's one of the few cars that's nice and light and really good on track without having to throw money at it. Doesn't have a boot though... It can make life interesting in that respect. Anything getting up to Scooby sizes is going to annihilate pads/discs/fluid/tyres/fuel at a terrifying rate. Great fun and a sensible all round car really, but consumables will be a killer.
All depends on how you want to go. Probably the least I ever spent doing a lot of trackdays was when I used a boggo MX5 and Mr2. Obviously that isn't going to be as quick as the other options, but there's a lot to be said for getting up in the morning, slinging your helmet in a car and just going. Which of course throws up option 4...
Hiring a track car. Makes it irrelevant what you run on the road. When you add up all the costs of buying and maintaining your own track car, it's actually cheaper even though it seems like a massive amount of money. The only downsides are that you get what your given, ie, there's no scope for setting up the car to your tastes. Otherwise there's a lot going for it as it really is zero hassle.
Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 19th May 12:25
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