328i Sport or Clio 172 - Track car help?!
Discussion
After a bit of advice really – well actually im just hoping that you lot are slightly less biased than cliosport, e36coupe.com & 306gti6.com …
I currently own an e36 328i Sport that I bought in Feb (following the sale of my 172 cup after redundancy) which was a little tired cosmetically, but mint mechanically. I have now spent a little cash & put considerable, blood, sweat & tears into making a nice, clean, original car. Everything is in good order, new steering rack, bushes, tyres & discs/pads all round, along with some nicely refurbed BBS wheels.
However, I have just been given an e92 M sport company car, so I can finally build myself a nice track toy over the winter months!! The question that I have been pondering almost constantly – to the irritation of my girlfriend on our recent week in France I might add!! – is whether to sell it (it’s worth about £2,750), then buy another 172 and track prep it. Or keep the 328i, strip it, prep it & track it … ive already discounted a 106 gti or 306 gti6/rallye as ive already had a couple (& tracked them all) and am not interested in an MX5 – after much playing with a friends lately, it’s not just quick enough without a turbo conversion.
So do I keep the 328 or sell/buy a 172. I know the sport inside out & know its solid, but is it wrong to track a mint example of a dying breed? In addition, how long would a set of tyres last on the 3 series on track, £75 a corner (Falken FK452) is considerably more than the £30 a corner for the clio …
RWD vs FWD, light vs power, revvy thrashability vs. 6 cylinder wail.
I just need some vaguely unbiased advice if thats possible. Purely on these two choices as i know i love both
Help.
I currently own an e36 328i Sport that I bought in Feb (following the sale of my 172 cup after redundancy) which was a little tired cosmetically, but mint mechanically. I have now spent a little cash & put considerable, blood, sweat & tears into making a nice, clean, original car. Everything is in good order, new steering rack, bushes, tyres & discs/pads all round, along with some nicely refurbed BBS wheels.
However, I have just been given an e92 M sport company car, so I can finally build myself a nice track toy over the winter months!! The question that I have been pondering almost constantly – to the irritation of my girlfriend on our recent week in France I might add!! – is whether to sell it (it’s worth about £2,750), then buy another 172 and track prep it. Or keep the 328i, strip it, prep it & track it … ive already discounted a 106 gti or 306 gti6/rallye as ive already had a couple (& tracked them all) and am not interested in an MX5 – after much playing with a friends lately, it’s not just quick enough without a turbo conversion.
So do I keep the 328 or sell/buy a 172. I know the sport inside out & know its solid, but is it wrong to track a mint example of a dying breed? In addition, how long would a set of tyres last on the 3 series on track, £75 a corner (Falken FK452) is considerably more than the £30 a corner for the clio …
RWD vs FWD, light vs power, revvy thrashability vs. 6 cylinder wail.
I just need some vaguely unbiased advice if thats possible. Purely on these two choices as i know i love both
Help.
EP2Nick said:
Though the impression I'm getting from your post is that you've sort of made your mind up with the Bimmer 
Oh, not at all, im really swaying towards either (changes on a daily basis!!), clio & e36 are both really easy to work on. Would be a PH1 172 as ive already had a 182 & a 172 cup ... i know they are great on track as i took the cup to the ring, BUT the e36 has a lot of potential. Its the potential consumables costs of the e36 that really worry me with it. I know the clios parts are cheap, but would it break more often mechanically ....
Edited by Sir_Dave on Monday 24th August 12:09
I've owned both a 182 Clio and a 328 Sport. Driven them both on track and preferred the bm. Primarily due to the driving position, I found the Clio awful due to the bus-like steering wheel position.
Bm seems a lot more predictable as well......personally though I just prefer longer wheelbase, rwd cars to pocket rocket hot hatches.
Tracked the bm a few times and had no probs whatsoever with it, very strong, reliable cars. Mine was a completely std 1998 Sport.....probably the only car I've ever regretted selling!
Bm seems a lot more predictable as well......personally though I just prefer longer wheelbase, rwd cars to pocket rocket hot hatches.
Tracked the bm a few times and had no probs whatsoever with it, very strong, reliable cars. Mine was a completely std 1998 Sport.....probably the only car I've ever regretted selling!
EP2Nick said:
Depends on what you mean by potential? Would you be competing or is it simply track day fun?
Track day/fast road only. Just keen to find out the on-track running costs of both really, would rather spend my hard earned on doing more track days, than having to buy expensive tyres/parts, etc ... just keen to get back into track time, other than the 'ring, i havent done a track day since uni 
Edited by Sir_Dave on Monday 24th August 15:14
I have a 328 track car. If you've been on e36coupe you may have seen it. Anyway, to give you an idea of costs:
Brembo front discs - £38.50 from GSF
Performance Friction pads - £65 per axle for Z rated or, for better value, £150 per axle for race pads which last forever
Hankook RS2 'track' tyres - £79 each
Overall I budget about £400-£450 per trackday which includes the trackday itself, fuel to get there and back, servicing, Toyo R888 tyres and a £600 annual fund for any unknowns.
I've had the car for two seasons and done over 15 trackdays. The only thing to break, out of the ordinary, was the engine mounts ripping out of the cross member. Was easily fixed and can be prevented by reinforcing the cross member before starting your trackdays.
Excellent car that, as you say, has lots of potential. Makes mincemeat of Clios
Brembo front discs - £38.50 from GSF
Performance Friction pads - £65 per axle for Z rated or, for better value, £150 per axle for race pads which last forever
Hankook RS2 'track' tyres - £79 each
Overall I budget about £400-£450 per trackday which includes the trackday itself, fuel to get there and back, servicing, Toyo R888 tyres and a £600 annual fund for any unknowns.
I've had the car for two seasons and done over 15 trackdays. The only thing to break, out of the ordinary, was the engine mounts ripping out of the cross member. Was easily fixed and can be prevented by reinforcing the cross member before starting your trackdays.
Excellent car that, as you say, has lots of potential. Makes mincemeat of Clios
swtmerce said:
I have a 328 track car. If you've been on e36coupe you may have seen it. Anyway, to give you an idea of costs:
Brembo front discs - £38.50 from GSF
Performance Friction pads - £65 per axle for Z rated or, for better value, £150 per axle for race pads which last forever
Hankook RS2 'track' tyres - £79 each
Overall I budget about £400-£450 per trackday which includes the trackday itself, fuel to get there and back, servicing, Toyo R888 tyres and a £600 annual fund for any unknowns.
I've had the car for two seasons and done over 15 trackdays. The only thing to break, out of the ordinary, was the engine mounts ripping out of the cross member. Was easily fixed and can be prevented by reinforcing the cross member before starting your trackdays.
Excellent car that, as you say, has lots of potential. Makes mincemeat of Clios
Very helpful thanks, have read your posts on e36coupe & northloop with great interest, hence my pondering of the e36 track car ... just out of interest, how many track days would you say the discs/pads/tyres last?Brembo front discs - £38.50 from GSF
Performance Friction pads - £65 per axle for Z rated or, for better value, £150 per axle for race pads which last forever
Hankook RS2 'track' tyres - £79 each
Overall I budget about £400-£450 per trackday which includes the trackday itself, fuel to get there and back, servicing, Toyo R888 tyres and a £600 annual fund for any unknowns.
I've had the car for two seasons and done over 15 trackdays. The only thing to break, out of the ordinary, was the engine mounts ripping out of the cross member. Was easily fixed and can be prevented by reinforcing the cross member before starting your trackdays.
Excellent car that, as you say, has lots of potential. Makes mincemeat of Clios
One set of Brembos have done 12 trackdays and a lip is only starting to form. Previous sets of Nitrac discs cracked in a day and had lips larger than Bubba's in Forrest Gump.
R888s only lasted 4 events due to mismanagement and incorrect pressures. I would say the next set could be made to last 6-7 trackdays. Hankooks last forever - they've done 8 or 9 events and, seriously, hardly seem to have worn!
Pads - Z rated lasted about 5-6 track days. The race compound have lasted 8 or so track days and still have about 20% left. So, contrary to what I said earlier, the race pads aren't as great 'value' as the Z rated but they are definitely a much better pad. They shouldn't be used for road miles though otherwise they'll eat your discs.
R888s only lasted 4 events due to mismanagement and incorrect pressures. I would say the next set could be made to last 6-7 trackdays. Hankooks last forever - they've done 8 or 9 events and, seriously, hardly seem to have worn!
Pads - Z rated lasted about 5-6 track days. The race compound have lasted 8 or so track days and still have about 20% left. So, contrary to what I said earlier, the race pads aren't as great 'value' as the Z rated but they are definitely a much better pad. They shouldn't be used for road miles though otherwise they'll eat your discs.
swtmerce said:
R888s only lasted 4 events due to mismanagement and incorrect pressures. I would say the next set could be made to last 6-7 trackdays. Hankooks last forever - they've done 8 or 9 events and, seriously, hardly seem to have worn!
Good tyres the Hankooks but no where near the grip levels of the 888s....hence why they last so much longer. swtmerce said:
One set of Brembos have done 12 trackdays and a lip is only starting to form. Previous sets of Nitrac discs cracked in a day and had lips larger than Bubba's in Forrest Gump.
R888s only lasted 4 events due to mismanagement and incorrect pressures. I would say the next set could be made to last 6-7 trackdays. Hankooks last forever - they've done 8 or 9 events and, seriously, hardly seem to have worn!
Pads - Z rated lasted about 5-6 track days. The race compound have lasted 8 or so track days and still have about 20% left. So, contrary to what I said earlier, the race pads aren't as great 'value' as the Z rated but they are definitely a much better pad. They shouldn't be used for road miles though otherwise they'll eat your discs.
There was me thinking that a set of discs/pads/tyres would only last a couple of events due to the e36's extra weight!!R888s only lasted 4 events due to mismanagement and incorrect pressures. I would say the next set could be made to last 6-7 trackdays. Hankooks last forever - they've done 8 or 9 events and, seriously, hardly seem to have worn!
Pads - Z rated lasted about 5-6 track days. The race compound have lasted 8 or so track days and still have about 20% left. So, contrary to what I said earlier, the race pads aren't as great 'value' as the Z rated but they are definitely a much better pad. They shouldn't be used for road miles though otherwise they'll eat your discs.
This post just made my day. It might not be as expensive as i thought then! Thanks
Edited by Sir_Dave on Monday 24th August 22:02
Edited by Sir_Dave on Monday 24th August 22:17
I am running a 325i 'loon that I bought from ebay for £420 a little more than a month ago. I have done 5 X T/D's in it so far and costs have been ridiculously low. I am using M3 EBC discs and yellow stuff pads that I bought about 4 years ago but have hardly used and much to my amazement, they are really good 
The discs are starting to lip and the pads last for about 4 events but I am a very late/hard breaker and feel this combo may well last longer in the hands of somebody a little more considerate. I too have Hankooks and can attest to their longevity although they are quite hard and if your driving is not smooth, they do like to wail a bit 
I was at Angelsey last Thursday and just to give you some idea of the cars ability, I was doing 1.28's compared to a Ferrari 430 Scuderia who was also there on the day doing consistent 1.25's! Now even if I were a driving God ( which I can definitely assure you I am NOT ), and the Fezza pilot was doing a succession of cooling down laps, the BMW proved its worth big style.
I have not owned a Clio but I did have a 205 that I tracked briefly about 200 years ago and I will never, I say NEVER! go back there
Use your 328i, it IS the correct choice
The discs are starting to lip and the pads last for about 4 events but I am a very late/hard breaker and feel this combo may well last longer in the hands of somebody a little more considerate. I too have Hankooks and can attest to their longevity although they are quite hard and if your driving is not smooth, they do like to wail a bit I was at Angelsey last Thursday and just to give you some idea of the cars ability, I was doing 1.28's compared to a Ferrari 430 Scuderia who was also there on the day doing consistent 1.25's! Now even if I were a driving God ( which I can definitely assure you I am NOT ), and the Fezza pilot was doing a succession of cooling down laps, the BMW proved its worth big style.
I have not owned a Clio but I did have a 205 that I tracked briefly about 200 years ago and I will never, I say NEVER! go back there
Use your 328i, it IS the correct choice
I haven't driven Clio but the 328 makes a great track car. It only needs decent tyres and brakes (I have performance friction 'z' pads and OEM spec discs and they have lasted 5 track days so far with very little wear). Of course you can fit better suspension and a 325 inlet manifold and bigger throttle body will let the engine breath more freely. Personally I prefer RWD, it's just more adjustable and fun, really.
As for speed (not that it's that important), I've overtaken a few Clios but do not remember being overtaken by any.
As for speed (not that it's that important), I've overtaken a few Clios but do not remember being overtaken by any.
Edited by varsas on Wednesday 26th August 13:24
chris7676 said:
Interestingly hardly any vote for the Clio. I have an M3 which is a faster/heavier 328, and found it very enjoyable & predictable, yet have to admit being overtaken by a Clio on the track But that's mostly down to the drivers.
Loved my clio and sure it would be a good track toy, but do love RWD, now owning two RWD machines LOL But that's mostly down to the drivers.I've tracked a standard E36 M3 Evo and a standard Clio 172, enjoyed both. The clio is so easy to drive fast and at the limit to the point at which it melted the yokohama's at spa.
I would have thought the clio would be cheaper to run and very rewarding if your only doing 1 or 2 trackdays a year, within 3 or 4 laps I was throwing the clio around spa and really enjoyed the day.
But if you doing a lot of track driving I would have thought learning how to get the 328 round fast may be more rewarding,
I also would have thought the 328 would want better brakes, suspension and lightening before it became a serious track car, were as the clio's brakes and weight don't really hold it back and even the suspensions not too bad.
I would have thought the clio would be cheaper to run and very rewarding if your only doing 1 or 2 trackdays a year, within 3 or 4 laps I was throwing the clio around spa and really enjoyed the day.
But if you doing a lot of track driving I would have thought learning how to get the 328 round fast may be more rewarding,
I also would have thought the 328 would want better brakes, suspension and lightening before it became a serious track car, were as the clio's brakes and weight don't really hold it back and even the suspensions not too bad.
andye30m3 said:
I've tracked a standard E36 M3 Evo and a standard Clio 172, enjoyed both. The clio is so easy to drive fast and at the limit to the point at which it melted the yokohama's at spa.
I would have thought the clio would be cheaper to run and very rewarding if your only doing 1 or 2 trackdays a year, within 3 or 4 laps I was throwing the clio around spa and really enjoyed the day.
But if you doing a lot of track driving I would have thought learning how to get the 328 round fast may be more rewarding,
I also would have thought the 328 would want better brakes, suspension and lightening before it became a serious track car, were as the clio's brakes and weight don't really hold it back and even the suspensions not too bad.
Cilo is probably a bit boring after a while on the track,I would have thought the clio would be cheaper to run and very rewarding if your only doing 1 or 2 trackdays a year, within 3 or 4 laps I was throwing the clio around spa and really enjoyed the day.
But if you doing a lot of track driving I would have thought learning how to get the 328 round fast may be more rewarding,
I also would have thought the 328 would want better brakes, suspension and lightening before it became a serious track car, were as the clio's brakes and weight don't really hold it back and even the suspensions not too bad.
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