Half or Full Cage?

[scz4]

I still can't decide if I should go for a full cage or rear cage, so looking for your opinion. Car is a E36 M3 Evo Coupe, which is going to be partly stripped with bucket seats etc. It's my second car for sunny evening and weekend blasts, but also used on the track both in the UK and the Nurburgring, 5 or 6 times a year. Both kits are bolt-in cages from SafetyDevices. I've tried to weigh up each option as below:

Half Cage:
+ Just 35kg
+ Allows me to use harnesses safely
+ Can add front half later
- Doesn't offer full protection

Full Cage:
+ Full protection including side impact
- 65kg+
- Difficulty of getting in and out etc
- Full cage can potentially cause more harm than good if not wearing a helmet during normal road driving and involved in an accident
- Possibility of cage obscuring mirrors as it's curved to miss the dash (mirrors are already very small)

I am now swaying towards a half cage for now, then add the front half if it even becomes an out and out track car.

Full cage pictures here:

Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 23 September 07:35

[Alfatim]

Full cage IMHO

Your picture shows just a single door bar which are pretty easy to get in and out. Maybe ask the question whilst imagining yourself losing control and heading merrily into a barrier. (It only has to happen once)

Weight diference is pretty much a jerry can of fuel maybe half a passenger.

Edited by Alfatim on Wednesday 23 September 08:45

[FLD_WILLIS]

On the diagram, it looks as if the door bars are bolt in anyway so you could remove them when using the car on the road.

[Big Ashy]

In my experience, full cage every day of the week, regardless of extra weight and ease of getting in and out of!

[BertBert]

Porsche are *very* explicit in their instruction not to use a full cage in a 911 without a helmet. Don't do it unless there are no circumstances in which your head can hit the cage. Death can be painful.

Bert

[A.Wang]

Full cage.

The purpose of a half cage is to preserve your remains in one body bag rather than three for the ease of identification by your next of kin. -- Sadly not my quote...

[braddo]

Going for a full cage as the default choice is overkill.

You might want to consider your own situation in terms of the risks you take and how often you take them. For example:

- lots of people drive fast on the road such that if they lost control of the car they would have a serious accident (i.e. there is often *more* risk on the road than on a track day). But you rarely see cages on road cars
- 6 trackdays a year is not many
- you already have a fairly new car with a good passenger safety cell
- how many serious accidents occur on track days in the UK?
- a cage's main benefit is if the car rolls (a full cage will also help a bit for side impacts into the front doors), but otherwise it won't make much difference
- how riskily will you drive on the road?
- how will you drive on track? At the absolute edge of adhesion the whole time or with a bit of a safety buffer?
- is the car's handling very twitchy such that it will be hard to catch/correct if you do lose it?
- you'll suffer economic loss if you bang the car, regardless of whether it has a cage. This risk to the wallet often encourages people to drive with less risk anyway.

[fergus]

The cage per the diagram below wouldn't offer *that* much protection in the event of a big off anyway. It's missing lots of triangulation. I think, as Bert says, it does increase the risk of a head injury when you're not wearing a helmet though.

If you're thinking of a full cage, it's probably worth having a full cage welded in and tagged to the A and B pillars. This will also stiffen the car far more than a simple 6 pt bolt in cage. Beware that w/o front triangulation to the struts, you risk placing massive stresses on the front bulkhead, esp when using sticky tyres and high springrates.

[Nurburgsingh]

Do you do half a st?

Do you do your zipper up half way?

Do you do a job Halfarsedly?

[rex]

I have that cage in a E36 M3 and getting in and out is no problem. Visability is not a problem. New cars have thicker A-pillars than what you will end up with

[braddo]

Nurburgsingh said:

Do you do half a st?

Do you do your zipper up half way?

Do you do a job Halfarsedly?

So I guess you catch taxis to cross the street because you're worried you'll get run over. Different people have different opinions on how dangerous things are and take different precautions accordingly.

If track days were as dangerous as racing then no question, a full, welded cage, nomex suit, exinguisher system etc would be justified. Track days are quite safe but like anything, the more time you spend on them the more chance something will go wrong, so if you do lots of track days then yeah, a full cage would be a sensible idea.

I'm just trying to provide some balance to the posters here who say a full cage is a necessity, as it if it's a certainty that you'll get seriously injured without one when doing 6 track days per year.

[swtmerce]

braddo said:

Nurburgsingh said:

Do you do half a st?

Do you do your zipper up half way?

Do you do a job Halfarsedly?

So I guess you catch taxis to cross the street because you're worried you'll get run over. Different people have different opinions on how dangerous things are and take different precautions accordingly.

If track days were as dangerous as racing then no question, a full, welded cage, nomex suit, exinguisher system etc would be justified. Track days are quite safe but like anything, the more time you spend on them the more chance something will go wrong, so if you do lots of track days then yeah, a full cage would be a sensible idea.

I'm just trying to provide some balance to the posters here who say a full cage is a necessity, as it if it's a certainty that you'll get seriously injured without one when doing 6 track days per year.

Totally agree with your comments. I have a full weld in cage in my track car and have been using it for two years and have never seen a serious accident. Of course, accidents happen, but they are rare on trackdays.

If circumstances dictated I wanted the protection of a cage but still needed to use the car on the road, I would go for a half cage.

Edited by swtmerce on Friday 25th September 07:48

Edited by swtmerce on Friday 25th September 07:50

[scz4]

Thanks for the comments guys. Good points on both sides, but I guess the "full cage" guys will always be more vocal

I've been reading a lot on this and I don't think a full cage is a good idea on the road since I won't be wearing a helmet, potentially it could do more damage than good if involved in an accident without a lid on. I do of course drive fast on track, but not out with my skill levels or the cars capabilities. And thirdly, the trackdays I attend are very well organised with no overtaking on the corners, good marshalling etc.

So all in all I guess it's a risk assessment and I think half cage is the best way to go whilst the car is still used on the road.

[900T-R]

Nurburgsingh said:

Do you do half a st?

Do you do your zipper up half way?

Do you do a job Halfarsedly?

scz4 said:

Full cage can potentially cause more harm than good if not wearing a helmet during normal road driving and involved in an accident

I wouldn't think of installing a full cage in a car that sees road useage, except when you do it properly and wrap the pillars in proper impact absorbing material (not that foamy roll stuff, that's only good for 'protecting' you when getting in and out of the car) before covering it with a new headliner shell à la Ruf.

[cragswinter]

Full cage only if the car is gonna be transported to & from track-rear only if any road work is to be done IMO
full cage does more harm than good in a road accident & even on track days what are the chances of hitting a concrete wall head on or being t-boned at speed by another car,it's for racing only really. Otherwise why would Porsche & Renault fit rear only in their track cars?

[Nurburgsingh]

cragswinter said:

Full cage only if the car is gonna be transported to & from track-rear only if any road work is to be done IMO
full cage does more harm than good in a road accident & even on track days what are the chances of hitting a concrete wall head on or being t-boned at speed by another car,it's for racing only really. Otherwise why would Porsche & Renault fit rear only in their track cars?

996gtrs came with a full cage. you could take the front of it out if you wanted.

and i'd have thought the chances of getting T-boned at a trackday are higher then at grass roots club level racing, and because its on track the speeds are going to be higher than on the road.

The number of "cheap trackday slagcars" that are currently being talked about on here makes me think that the risks are only going to go up in the future.

Yes I am making generalisations about trackslags being owned by chavs and the type of owner that has just elivated him/herself from doing donuts and burnouts in carparks to some airfield day where you can buy tracktime by the 15min slot.

[Pork_n_Beem]

All cages are for competition purposes whereby there is a very high degree of risk of crash involving rolling the car or side impact.

A weekend blast or trackday is hardly a call for a roll cage.

Just take it steady and don't crash, you will also keep the weight down !

[shim]

dont fit a full cage for road use as even a simple shunt could ruin your head if you are not wearing a helmet

half cage or no cage should be the poll if it is used on the road

Edited by shim on Friday 25th September 21:25

[MrChips]

How much is the difference in cost between the full and half cages?
If buying the whole cage is relatively cheap to buying half now and upgrading later, then i'd buy the full cage but only keep the rear half cage in the car, and then fit the front part for any trackdays etc.

[Big Ashy]

Good advice here as there are arguments for and against a full cage on the road. It is not until you hav experienced a heavy roll on track or on the road that you appreciate how beneficial a full cage is. Ok you might hit your head on a bar but it is better than having no head at all! Without a full cage i would of been seriously injured, paralysed or worse, all my own opinion / experience of course!

MrChips said:

How much is the difference in cost between the full and half cages?
If buying the whole cage is relatively cheap to buying half now and upgrading later, then i'd buy the full cage but only keep the rear half cage in the car, and then fit the front part for any trackdays etc.