Driving on trackday tyres in the rain to the event

[zakelwe]

This maybe a really dumbo question, but I have my first trackday on Sunday and the forecast is terrible for then, am I best taking it slowly on the motorway or spend track day time changing over the normal tyres for the track days ones whilst getting soaked? Or if it it is rainy should I just leave them at home? Do trackday tyres still work better if no chance of aquaplaning or is the chemical composition of them hopeless compared to a normal tyre unless they have some heat in them?

Like I said, the answer might be blindingly obvious, but being completely new to them please don't laugh me out of town!

Andy

Edited by zakelwe on Friday 26th February 19:14

[Elderly]

zakelwe said:

or spend track day time changing over the normal tyres for the track

Andy

Edited by zakelwe on Friday 26th February 19:14

Get there earlier, giving yourself time to change wheels
before the event starts.

[haircutmike]

Depends what your tyres are.

Toyo triple 8's, as long as they arn't totally worn work really well in the wet.

Embarrased other cars with T1-R's in the wet!

HCM.

[shim]

i drive to and from TDs on Cups. If it is heavy rain i might either take it very easy or wait for it to calm down but otherwise no probs

[21TonyK]

A lot depends on the car. In my Exige if you hit standing water on 888's it really is 50:50 as to whether or not you come out the other side facing the same way!

Edited by 21TonyK on Saturday 27th February 09:10

[zakelwe]

Thanks guys, I should have given you more information. The car is an Aygo ( ) and the tyres are Dunlop Direzza 03g R1 compound (medium)and at 195/50 not too wide. I think they more or less equate to the R888 which is very popular.

Being front wheel drive and not too wide they shouldn't be too bad, but I think I will take them up and then judge it from there.

It's only £89 for all day, nice and cheap for my first dip of the toe.

Thanks again for your help.

Andy

[AndrewD]

Track day tyres on an Aygo. You're worried about them. Really, is it worth it?

Anyway, enjoy yourself

[Don]

Which circuit, Andy?

In an Aygo you will have fun enjoying the thrill of maintaining momentum.

If it's really going to be piss wet I'd leave your road tyres on, personally, unless they are very new - whereupon the wear will make you weep - but not if it stays wet!

Opposite to what others might say a wet trackday can be an absolute hoot when it comes to the driving but it does dampen the social aspect of chatting in between sessions.

[haircutmike]

Don said:

Opposite to what others might say a wet trackday can be an absolute hoot when it comes to the driving but it does dampen the social aspect of chatting in between sessions.

I agree, I really enjoy being on the edge in the rain but the scial side does suffer!

HCM.

[zakelwe]

I can understand people thinking it's a bit of a waste but to be honest, however the Aygo makes a good fist of it at corners because it weighs less than 900kg (light for a small hatchback nowadays, how much does a Clio sport weigh?) and the engine is only 61kg and is so small they could put it quite well back. The sad thing is Toyota made the handling understeer a lot to protect the buyers it is aimed at, ie young and old, but I took it down to Abbey Motorsport and they sorted out the rear so a bit of lift off oversteer is now on the cards.

It still can't pull the skin off a rice pudding on the straights though . I had an AMG C43 before this car, that was great engine wise and not so good round the corners, now it's the other way around! I have to say though that the Aygo has made me feel young again (I'm 42) something the Merc never did.

God the metoffice looks grim, I will definitely not be socialising unless Noah turns up with his race prepped ark.

Andy

[flemke]

zakelwe said:

Thanks guys, I should have given you more information. The car is an Aygo ( ) and the tyres are Dunlop Direzza 03g R1 compound (medium)and at 195/50 not too wide. I think they more or less equate to the R888 which is very popular.

Being front wheel drive and not too wide they shouldn't be too bad, but I think I will take them up and then judge it from there.

It's only £89 for all day, nice and cheap for my first dip of the toe.

Thanks again for your help.

Andy

This tread pattern?


This:
http://www.dunlop-tires.com/dunlop_uk/I_want_new_t...

gives us a clue as to compound. It rates "tread life" low. That and the tread pattern suggest a soft compound. As a generalisation, the softer the compound, the more readily the tyre will heat up and deform into the interstices of the road surface. This is what you want. The compound of a racing wet is very soft. Even a Michelin Cup is okay in the wet so long as there is no standing water.

Standing water will be the issue. If there is any depth to the water at all (even a mil), the tyre is going to have to cut its way through it. As you know, there are several variables that affect the tyre's ability to do this. If the combination of those variables is inadequate, the tyre must then push its way through it. That's possible, but only to a limited extent.
You point out that your tyres are not wide - 195s. Fair enough, but the car weighs little - apparently IRO 900 kg. If the tyre is 30% narrower than, say, a Porsche's, but the car is also 30% lighter than that hypothetical Porsche, you're sort of in the same territory.
The problem with standing water is that, going through it, the car is fine until the moment that it isn't. The driver often gets no signal that the tyres are about to float until they have begun to float. If the water depth does not quickly diminish, it's worse than being on ice.
On the other hand, this stuff is pretty well under the driver's control. Motorways seem more prone to aquaplane-inducing standing water than A and B roads are. The latter are crowned, are not covered in non-draining concrete, and the travelling speed is lower. Think about avoiding the motorway if there is any real chance of standing water.
If you overinflate the tyres by several psi, although you will be reducing contact patch size and thus reducing limit grip, that won't matter on the road because you will have more than enough grip. Overinflating will, however, narrow the tyre and reduce risk of aquaplaning. I'd try it if I were concerned - 3-4 psi above normal.
(By overinflating in these circumstances, there will be no risk of overheating the tyre, for obvious reasons. You would not want to overinflate when it's hot and dry.)

[zakelwe]

flemke said:

zakelwe said:

Thanks guys, I should have given you more information. The car is an Aygo ( ) and the tyres are Dunlop Direzza 03g R1 compound (medium)and at 195/50 not too wide. I think they more or less equate to the R888 which is very popular.

Being front wheel drive and not too wide they shouldn't be too bad, but I think I will take them up and then judge it from there.

It's only £89 for all day, nice and cheap for my first dip of the toe.

Thanks again for your help.

Andy

This tread pattern?


This:
http://www.dunlop-tires.com/dunlop_uk/I_want_new_t...

gives us a clue as to compound. It rates "tread life" low. That and the tread pattern suggest a soft compound. As a generalisation, the softer the compound, the more readily the tyre will heat up and deform into the interstices of the road surface. This is what you want. The compound of a racing wet is very soft. Even a Michelin Cup is okay in the wet so long as there is no standing water.

Standing water will be the issue. If there is any depth to the water at all (even a mil), the tyre is going to have to cut its way through it. As you know, there are several variables that affect the tyre's ability to do this. If the combination of those variables is inadequate, the tyre must then push its way through it. That's possible, but only to a limited extent.
You point out that your tyres are not wide - 195s. Fair enough, but the car weighs little - apparently IRO 900 kg. If the tyre is 30% narrower than, say, a Porsche's, but the car is also 30% lighter than that hypothetical Porsche, you're sort of in the same territory.
The problem with standing water is that, going through it, the car is fine until the moment that it isn't. The driver often gets no signal that the tyres are about to float until they have begun to float. If the water depth does not quickly diminish, it's worse than being on ice.
On the other hand, this stuff is pretty well under the driver's control. Motorways seem more prone to aquaplane-inducing standing water than A and B roads are. The latter are crowned, are not covered in non-draining concrete, and the travelling speed is lower. Think about avoiding the motorway if there is any real chance of standing water.
If you overinflate the tyres by several psi, although you will be reducing contact patch size and thus reducing limit grip, that won't matter on the road because you will have more than enough grip. Overinflating will, however, narrow the tyre and reduce risk of aquaplaning. I'd try it if I were concerned - 3-4 psi above normal.
(By overinflating in these circumstances, there will be no risk of overheating the tyre, for obvious reasons. You would not want to overinflate when it's hot and dry.)

Thanks Flemke,a very good summation. I'll be packing my 12v DC Michelin pump.


Regards

Andy

[jon-]

Consider whether like on a car like that, or any car, if you'll have more fun on trackday tyres.

I've run normal tyres VS trackday tyres back to back on a single day, and while the track tyres were a little faster (not an awful lot) I had much more fun on the road tyres as the car moved around so much more. On a light weight car I think I'd have more fun on road tyres.

Also, if it's cold and wet make sure you can get enough temperature into the medium compound tyres.

[zakelwe]

Thanks Jon,

I had a great time, I had those on the front and some standard cheap Federal tyres on the back. At the start it was very wet and they never got an temperature, so the grip was all at the back and I understeered. At the end it dried up and the front came more into play more and more until it was the rears that were struggling and I had the point of oversteer which was quite nice. I would imagine if they got properly warm then it might let go at the back at some point, perhaps too much. I will continue to play around. It was a great day out though, learnt a lot about the tyres and had a lot of fun. I have caught the bug.

Thanks for all your advice

Andy