Question on 'the Ring'

[merlin5]

Heading down to the Nurburgring this Easter bank holiday as a newbie to the whole ring scene. Planning on taking my own motor down - a fairly costly 3-series of the twin-turbo variety. I am aware that my car would not be covered insurance-wise. Is it madness to do this - or should I rent a track vehicle. I am told if you stick to the rules, it is pretty safe.

[mat205125]

If it's madness then there are a lot of mad people out there. Wibble!

Only you can weigh up the balance of worst case vs best case for your weekend.

Be sensible and have fun

[supertouring]

A large number of people do trackdays without insurance too, so as said above it is all about managing the risk.

I find the majority of people who crash at the ring do it due to taking too big a risk and driving beyond thier or their cars abilty.

Obviously being involved in someone elses accident is always possible so the risk is there, but is minimal imho

just remember that if you do have an accident is will get expensive very quickly, regardless if you drive your own or a rental.

[nitrodan]

Ive been a few times now, seen lots of crashes as long as you no your limit and the car's limit dont push over that, a good tip i was giving dont try to follow a faster car/driver and dont forget it's their local track/road ( I did and the bike i was chasing crashed into the barrier i made the turn, dont think he was local, or he thought he would out run me on the stright but forgot the bend ) and look for the white dot's on the bends "turning point's" but had lots of fun and will be going back.

[Adenauer]

Merlin, would you drive it on a normal road knowing that you have no insurance? Because that is what you are doing. You have to have a minimum of 3rd party insurance to be allowed to drive on the ring during Touristenfahrt, those that do it knowing that they aren't covered have to be mentally insane.

It's not your car you need to worry about in the event of a crash, it's the F430 that you plough into and then biker that you run over leaving him paralised for life that's going to cost you, for the rest of your life.

Get insurance, or stay at home, sorry

ETA: Rent a car

Edited by Adenauer on Thursday 18th March 08:02

[Adenauer]

Oh and guess what, the sun's shing brightly in the sky, and the track's open for the first time this year from 12 o'clock, and I have half a day booked off work

[eightseventhree]

And dont forget the costs involved with replacing Armco, track closure costs, towing costs . . . .

[Chris71]

Adenauer said:

Merlin, would you drive it on a normal road knowing that you have no insurance? Because that is what you are doing. You have to have a minimum of 3rd party insurance to be allowed to drive on the ring during Touristenfahrt, those that do it knowing that they aren't covered have to be mentally insane.

It's not your car you need to worry about in the event of a crash, it's the F430 that you plough into and then biker that you run over leaving him paralised for life that's going to cost you, for the rest of your life.

Get insurance, or stay at home, sorry

In theory I'm inclined to agree, but are there any companies that actually offer specific Nurburgring cover to UK registered cars? I think I've heard of one that offered very limited cover for huge amounts of money, but I don't know if that's even still going. My road insurance has inclusive track days, but even that specifically excludes the ring (on TF days or otherwise).

I do completely agree with the sentiment (and I've personally rented an insured car), but it must be virtually impossible for a UK registered car to go there legitimately?

I know some people will claim that it's a grey area in policies the ring isn't specifically forbidden (being as it is a public toll road), but I'm quite quite sure the insurance company will be able to afford better lawyers than they will.

[fergus]

Chris71 said:

Adenauer said:

Merlin, would you drive it on a normal road knowing that you have no insurance? Because that is what you are doing. You have to have a minimum of 3rd party insurance to be allowed to drive on the ring during Touristenfahrt, those that do it knowing that they aren't covered have to be mentally insane.

It's not your car you need to worry about in the event of a crash, it's the F430 that you plough into and then biker that you run over leaving him paralised for life that's going to cost you, for the rest of your life.

Get insurance, or stay at home, sorry

In theory I'm inclined to agree, but are there any companies that actually offer specific Nurburgring cover to UK registered cars? I think I've heard of one that offered very limited cover for huge amounts of money, but I don't know if that's even still going. My road insurance has inclusive track days, but even that specifically excludes the ring (on TF days or otherwise).

I do completely agree with the sentiment (and I've personally rented an insured car), but it must be virtually impossible for a UK registered car to go there legitimately?

I know some people will claim that it's a grey area in policies the ring isn't specifically forbidden (being as it is a public toll road), but I'm quite quite sure the insurance company will be able to afford better lawyers than they will.

Chris, you can obtain (costly) 1st party cover, but no-one offers bespoke 3rd party cover. This is what is going to hurt if you *cause* an accident....

[fergus]

eightseventhree said:

And dont forget the costs involved with replacing Armco, track closure costs, towing costs . . . .

These would most likely pale into the ether when compared to any personal injury damages claim you could face as a result of causing an accident, however small you *perceive* the risk to be....

[Munter]

Either find 3rd party insurance somehow (probably kept with the Unicorn spunk) and get it confirmed in writing, or hire a ring car from one of the many companys.

[Adenauer]

fergus said:

eightseventhree said:

And dont forget the costs involved with replacing Armco, track closure costs, towing costs . . . .

These would most likely pale into the ether when compared to any personal injury damages claim you could face as a result of causing an accident, however small you *perceive* the risk to be....

Why oh why don't people understand that??? :brickwall:

Armco = 2,000
Closure = 1,000
Tow = 200

Paying for the biker that you crippled for life?

THAT is why you need insurance.

[Adenauer]

Anyway, I can't stay here talking to you all day, it opens in 40 minutes, time to 'fire up the old banger'

[Munter]

Adenauer said:

Anyway, I can't stay here talking to you all day, it opens in 40 minutes, time to 'fire up the old banger'

People like you....

Have fun!

[Olivera]

As I stated on a previous thread:

According to a recent test case, stating 'not covered on the nurburgring' in an insurance policy was actually ruled illegal. The Nurburgring is a public one way toll road and insurers must legally provide at least third party cover for all EU roads, including the Nurburgring.

[Joe911]

Olivera said:

As I stated on a previous thread:

According to a recent test case, stating 'not covered on the nurburgring' in an insurance policy was actually ruled illegal. The Nurburgring is a public one way toll road and insurers must legally provide at least third party cover for all EU roads, including the Nurburgring.

I've always said that is what *should* happen.
Any details on that test case so we can reference it?

[iguana]

Olivera said:

As I stated on a previous thread:

According to a recent test case, stating 'not covered on the nurburgring' in an insurance policy was actually ruled illegal. The Nurburgring is a public one way toll road and insurers must legally provide at least third party cover for all EU roads, including the Nurburgring.

Yes but in one of our numbers case they did pay out, they just chase you for it afterwards & they was just damaged metal costs rtaher than PI so a mere 100k or so.


There is proper insurance available, sometimes its tough to sort & in some cases expensive, but not unicorns jizum to sort out & some just register cars in Germany as then its sorted, but many folks are lazy to research.

Edited by iguana on Saturday 20th March 00:17

[tertius]

Olivera said:

As I stated on a previous thread:

According to a recent test case, stating 'not covered on the nurburgring' in an insurance policy was actually ruled illegal. The Nurburgring is a public one way toll road and insurers must legally provide at least third party cover for all EU roads, including the Nurburgring.

IANAL but I think we need to be extremely precise here.

As I understand it:

1. you are correct that an insurance company cannot contractually revoke its obligation to provide third party cover on a public road, and must therefore pay out any third party costs, to the affected third party.

2. BUT that does not prevent them coming after you in order to recover those same costs from you if they believe they were not or should not be covered in the contract between you and them (e.g. a specific or implied exclusion).

However, if you can reference a case which shows this understanding to be wrong I would be delighted to see it, and so, I am sure, would many others.

[Olivera]

tertius said:

Olivera said:

As I stated on a previous thread:

According to a recent test case, stating 'not covered on the nurburgring' in an insurance policy was actually ruled illegal. The Nurburgring is a public one way toll road and insurers must legally provide at least third party cover for all EU roads, including the Nurburgring.

IANAL but I think we need to be extremely precise here.

As I understand it:

1. you are correct that an insurance company cannot contractually revoke its obligation to provide third party cover on a public road, and must therefore pay out any third party costs, to the affected third party.

2. BUT that does not prevent them coming after you in order to recover those same costs from you if they believe they were not or should not be covered in the contract between you and them (e.g. a specific or implied exclusion).

However, if you can reference a case which shows this understanding to be wrong I would be delighted to see it, and so, I am sure, would many others.

I am not qualified to interpret this particular decision. My only point is contrary to what is often stated on PH, this ruling would imply that you can legally drive on the ring with any UK car insurance policy, albeit with a number of caveats which you have stated.

[Munter]

Olivera said:

tertius said:

Olivera said:

As I stated on a previous thread:

According to a recent test case, stating 'not covered on the nurburgring' in an insurance policy was actually ruled illegal. The Nurburgring is a public one way toll road and insurers must legally provide at least third party cover for all EU roads, including the Nurburgring.

IANAL but I think we need to be extremely precise here.

As I understand it:

1. you are correct that an insurance company cannot contractually revoke its obligation to provide third party cover on a public road, and must therefore pay out any third party costs, to the affected third party.

2. BUT that does not prevent them coming after you in order to recover those same costs from you if they believe they were not or should not be covered in the contract between you and them (e.g. a specific or implied exclusion).

However, if you can reference a case which shows this understanding to be wrong I would be delighted to see it, and so, I am sure, would many others.

I am not qualified to interpret this particular decision. My only point is contrary to what is often stated on PH, this ruling would imply that you can legally drive on the ring with any UK car insurance policy, albeit with a number of caveats which you have stated.

Ok I see yes it is legal to drive on the ring with a typical UK policy. As in you will not get in to trouble with the German police for driving without insurance.

However unless you have it in writing that the insurance company will not chase you for the cost of any 3rd party claims your financial risk is still there.